Xbox VR, The Missing Series? "Gamepass Announced for Quest 2, and Xbox VR Hinted at by Nadella"

[Tentonhammer]

If they go the wireless route would it be best if they use their proprietary WiFi tech that they use for their controllers?

Well, while I think Microsoft's version of wi-fi direct is much better than say Bluetooth or a standard wi-fi connection, that would indicate a custom made part or headset. If MS could get the Quest 2 to work with the Xbox Series consoles even single wired like on PC, that would be a great start (it also works wirelessly with PC with some side-loaded software but with a small grfx/latency hit). Moving forward, they'd likely need to work closely with someone (i.e. Oculus) to ensure full wireless support for Xbox. Both scenarios would be a boon for Oculus. I know the Quest 2 is probably a loss leader for them (cray that this headset is the same price or cheaper than the Rift S with MUCH more tech inside) so don't know if they really could release a cheaper headset without local processing (essentially a cheaper Rift S)...but from an install base perspective, the lower the price the better...so a $199 variant that works with PC/Xbox that is wireless with no local processing is probably their goal (at least that would be my focus for VR hardware if I was head of Xbox).

So, it came pretty fast and I think most people didn't even realize it but we have viable fully wireless VR today at a more than reasonable price. Not perfect but, like I said, a really great start. This is one of the items Phil mentioned as a barrier and why MS didn't jump into VR even with the X1X (the other being that the development space was immature)...but this was probably 2.5-3 years ago and a lot has changed. At the right price/config, VR could sell tons on console (i.e. price point, fully wireless, etc.). It would need to be a loss leader though and that can be a hard sell to management.

My approach:

• $199 "dumb" Headset - Matches Oculus Quest 2 current specs (or better?) for rez and is fully wireless with a 1-2 hour battery life
• Partner with Oculus to port any Oculus branded software to Xbox and all free with GP sub
  • A loss leader headset would likely mean Oculus get's some sort of cut of GP subs and possibly other subsidy from MS...either way, probably much cheaper than MS doing their own R&D/headset manufacture.
• Partner with other 3rd parties to port the good/great stuff to Xbox (sorry, first foray is going to be a ton of ports)
  • Some free with GP and some paid (pricing should be $40 or less for paid)
• Prep all of your first party studios for VR (all free with GP)
  • VR Halo experience
  • VR Gears
  • VR Sea of Thieves
  • Port Skyrim VR/Fallout VR
  • VR Starfield
  • VR Perfect Dark
  • Outright buy Ready at Dawn.....the company that makes EchoVR...that game is fire
  • Just buy f*cking Crytek goddammit....they have a really good VR game currently (The Climb) and you could have them make freaking Ryse VR!!! and other non-VR experiences

All that said, VR is not anywhere near ready to compete or replace standard gaming but it is a really fun and emerging secondary gaming experience. The fact you can watch movies/video in an IMAX like view is also kind of cool....and there are some good pron implications as well . I think MS could sell 15-20 million headsets over the generation with what I've outlined above but maybe I'm crazy....lol.

 

[GordoSan]

Not sure what this game is. Posting this for no other reason except to say that I want Forza Horizon in VR really badly!

 

[GordoSan]

Well, while I think Microsoft's version of wi-fi direct is much better than say Bluetooth or a standard wi-fi connection, that would indicate a custom made part or headset. If MS could get the Quest 2 to work with the Xbox Series consoles even single wired like on PC, that would be a great start (it also works wirelessly with PC with some side-loaded software but with a small grfx/latency hit). Moving forward, they'd likely need to work closely with someone (i.e. Oculus) to ensure full wireless support for Xbox. Both scenarios would be a boon for Oculus. I know the Quest 2 is probably a loss leader for them (cray that this headset is the same price or cheaper than the Rift S with MUCH more tech inside) so don't know if they really could release a cheaper headset without local processing (essentially a cheaper Rift S)...but from an install base perspective, the lower the price the better...so a $199 variant that works with PC/Xbox that is wireless with no local processing is probably their goal (at least that would be my focus for VR hardware if I was head of Xbox).

So, it came pretty fast and I think most people didn't even realize it but we have viable fully wireless VR today at a more than reasonable price. Not perfect but, like I said, a really great start. This is one of the items Phil mentioned as a barrier and why MS didn't jump into VR even with the X1X (the other being that the development space was immature)...but this was probably 2.5-3 years ago and a lot has changed. At the right price/config, VR could sell tons on console (i.e. price point, fully wireless, etc.). It would need to be a loss leader though and that can be a hard sell to management.

My approach:

• $199 "dumb" Headset - Matches Oculus Quest 2 current specs (or better?) for rez and is fully wireless with a 1-2 hour battery life
• Partner with Oculus to port any Oculus branded software to Xbox and all free with GP sub
  • A loss leader headset would likely mean Oculus get's some sort of cut of GP subs and possibly other subsidy from MS...either way, probably much cheaper than MS doing their own R&D/headset manufacture.
• Partner with other 3rd parties to port the good/great stuff to Xbox (sorry, first foray is going to be a ton of ports)
  • Some free with GP and some paid (pricing should be $40 or less for paid)
• Prep all of your first party studios for VR (all free with GP)
  • VR Halo experience
  • VR Gears
  • VR Sea of Thieves
  • Port Skyrim VR/Fallout VR
  • VR Starfield
  • VR Perfect Dark
  • Outright buy Ready at Dawn.....the company that makes EchoVR...that game is fire
  • Just buy f*cking Crytek goddammit....they have a really good VR game currently (The Climb) and you could have them make freaking Ryse VR!!! and other non-VR experiences

All that said, VR is not anywhere near ready to compete or replace standard gaming but it is a really fun and emerging secondary gaming experience. The fact you can watch movies/video in an IMAX like view is also kind of cool....and there are some good pron implications as well . I think MS could sell 15-20 million headsets over the generation with what I've outlined above but maybe I'm crazy....lol.

I like where you're going with making an even cheaper headset, but allow me to counter the "dumb" headset approach for Xbox with a smart headset called Quest 2. There are many advantages at play with a headset already having a chipset. Here's 2 of the biggest, IMO.

This 1st BIG one is that you cannot do wireless without some sort of video encoder in the 1st place. That means you're adding some sort of decoding chip with WiFi already. Not only that, but you need a battery. I've yet to see a $300 dumb headset that can compete with Quest 2. Not saying it's not possible. It is. I just don't think that Microsoft wants to take a loss to get there. Adding these necessary items for wireless already makes me think it shouldn't just be pretend smart. Might as well just have everything that's already in Quest 2.

The second one is so BIG that it becomes multiple bullet points in itself: offloading. So much can be offloaded, and already is by nature, on Quest/Quest 2.

• Let's start with the tracking! The tracking done internally inside the headset cuts the latency WAY down! If you're going wireless, this is just a no-brainer, IMO. Not only does Quest 2 have built-in head and controller tracking, it also can do hand tracking, and it's persistent.
• Now let's get to something else that Quest 2 does, and does EXTREMELY well, the Guardian system. This guardian remembers your livingroom/play space, puts up virtual walls around you furniture, and runs a layer of that over every app and game. PSVR had 0 guardian. Nada. Guardian should stay, IMO. No need to reinvent the wheel. It's all done right in the headset already.
• The last thing that is very much possible, is offloading assets within an actual game. Imagine having a small Quest download for a game which requires the body, guns, HUD items, etc. I'm not saying that Xbox Series X is a slouch, but I'm saying that Quest 2 can render those things with ease, freeing up even MORE processing. Now add VRS on XBOX, and you have new areas that don't need to be addressed at all, let alone high quality. The quality can go EXACTLY where it needs to... High quality remote rendering is already done by Microsoft in Hololens from PC, BTW. It's very cool to see very complex objects imported from PC! So, what I am envisioning is like an inverse of that. Queat 2 would do everything near (like Master Chief's HUD, arm and gun) and Xbox would do everything else in your view. Microsoft actually holds patents here!

What I have described above can very easily be done right now on Quest 2, via WiFi 6. If Virtual Desktop is making games playable from PC wirelessly to Quest 2 right now, there's NO reason it cannot be even better with MSFT's in-house backend, and especially using techniques I have already described. All of which would give Xbox VR an advantage over standard PC_VR, which has no offloading, and Quest Link doesn't do much of the performance overhead offloading described above, either.

Of course, that's just my opinion on how they can wrangle the first headset on its way to true mainstream success into their own competition that Sony simply cannot counter in-house. I'm talking walking into an adoption rate of millions, while PSVR2/PS5 will be starting over at 0 headsets. here's less risk for them in it, and many people will already have both (like me).

The next obvious question would be "what's in it for FB/Oculus?" This would admittedly have to be one titanic partnership, in order to share ecosystems like that. I have some both obvious and interesting ideas, but will leave that for another post.

 

[GordoSan]

The trail of Bill (Stillwell), from Xbox to Oculus. Coincidence? Bill went from back compatibility exec to xCloud exec... then... all of the sudden...







Interesting career path change over a few months. It's almost like he was 'offered' to Oculus, IMO! Notice that Microsoft has never had consumer AR/VR, so that 1st announcement was even strange! Also, he clearly had his next gig lined up before announcing he was leaving MSFT. Am I looking too much into this? I really am more surprised that nobody else HAS, honestly. It's almost like the underpinnings of a partnership like I previously described would be necessary to pull off a shared ecosystem...

 

[GordoSan]

 

[GordoSan]

 

[GordoSan]

Here's a link to what was project Santa Cruz from Oculus in 2016, which became Oculus Quest.

Oculus Rift, Untethered: Project Santa Cruz, Hands On

The VR HMD panacea is a completely untethered experience, free of both wires and a companion PC. Oculus is making one: Called Project Santa Cruz, it’s a version of the Rift that has its own computer on board; we got a chance to experience it firsthand.

www.tomshardware.com

 

[Two Pennys Worth]

I was really hoping they’d somehow go with the Quest 2 but if it’s VR for Xbox I’m all in regardless.

 

[GordoSan]

Found this in the getting started with ML portion of Project Santa Cruz:

 

[GordoSan]

Here's another weird thing from the help forums related to Project Santa Cruz:



Is it that Vader = Quest, and Rey = Quest 2?

I do know that Oculus previously had a code name Jedi for one of their controllers. All of this is starting to vindicate my suspicion all along! Of course, I'm still seemingly the only one looking at all of these things.

 

[GordoSan]

The more I look at Microsoft's Project Santa Cruz, the more it just looks like a camera/mic array, iot capture device dev kit, and is not related to Oculus's Project Santa Cruz, AKA Quest. Probably just a series of coincidences there. Really strange, though.

 

[GordoSan]

Probably not what it looks like... or?

 

[GordoSan]

 

[Rollins]

Hmmm.

 

[GordoSan]

Microsoft responds:

“the copy in this error message is inaccurate due to a localization bug,” while again reiterating that “VR for console is not a focus for us at this time.”

Microsoft reiterates ‘VR for console is not a focus for us’ following localization bug

I would not expect a VR headset for Xbox consoles anytime soon.

www.theverge.com

So, that's a hell of a "localization bug" to add "VR Visor" instead of just "headset" or "headphones"; and also weird that Flight Simulator also had a "bug" that read "Scarlett_VR" in the config files.

"Scarlett VR" Found In Microsoft Flight Simulator Files

A reference to "Scarlett VR" was found in the most recent build for Microsoft Flight Simulator.

www.thegamer.com

I wonder what the odds are of them making the same mistakes over again like this are...

 

[GordoSan]

Hey guys, you should trust Gordo's intuition! Nobody else called it! Not that I have seen anywhere. 343i has hired Alien Isolation VR and MCC VR moder: Nibre, just as I said.

HALO MCC COMING TO VR!!!

F@CK, THAT 99.99% MEANS VR IS COMING TO XBOX!!!

This is as close as we're going to get to a confirmation until they spill the beans. IMO, will be ready by end of 2022, just in time to compete with PSVR2. I freaking KNEW they hired him!

Halo Infinite: Alien Isolation VR and Halo VR modder hired by 343i

Among those who work on Halo Infinite there is also a particular presence, discovered only recently and reported by the ResetEra forum because it had not been

www.wiredupreport.com

 

[GordoSan]

Well, must have been another VR thread or the MCC one. I've also mentioned this on Twitter quite a few times. Basically, Nibre was right in the middle of modding Halo MCC, and about to release something the next day when he was never heard from again. That was over a year ago. This was the last visual update that went live:

 

[Two Pennys Worth]

I really hope so GordoSan. Good find.

 

[The Wolf King]

I really don't see MS bringing VR to Xbox anytime. Which is a shame.

Oculus and PSVR have shown the time is right to support it

 

[GordoSan]

I really don't see MS bringing VR to Xbox anytime. Which is a shame.

Oculus and PSVR have shown the time is right to support it

I disagree that it's not coming. I mean, that's exactly why they hired Nibre. One could argue that he's just going to handle MCC VR for PC, but that would be a slap in the face to Xbox gamers. They also know that Flight Simulator is a hit in VR, and separate strings for PC_VR and SCARLETT_VR have already been found in code.

 

[Two Pennys Worth]

I disagree that it's not coming. I mean, that's exactly why they hired Nibre. One could argue that he's just going to handle MCC VR for PC, but that would be a slap in the face to Xbox gamers. They also know that Flight Simulator is a hit in VR, and separate strings for PC_VR and SCARLETT_VR have already been found in code.

At a bare minimum they should allow support for Quest 2 usb connection and allow support for games that support VR like Elite D, Project Cars and so on. My concern with regards to Xbox and VR is MS are focused on Gamepass and might not want to develop games only for VR. I don’t see why they couldn’t support the Oculus App, I mean the Xbox is basically a PC anyway. I’d love them to support VR natively but I’m not going to hold my breath.

 

[GordoSan]

At a bare minimum they should allow support for Quest 2 usb connection and allow support for games that support VR like Elite D, Project Cars and so on. My concern with regards to Xbox and VR is MS are focused on Gamepass and might not want to develop games only for VR. I don’t see why they couldn’t support the Oculus App, I mean the Xbox is basically a PC anyway. I’d love them to support VR natively but I’m not going to hold my breath.

Oh, I think it's the wireless option that will make them bite.

They have until later next year to match Sony's efforts. There's been very little pressure thus far, despite some saying they will be left behind. Nobody will remember much from PSVR titles except AstroBot and to a lesser extent, Blood & Truth and Iron Man (which needs an updated version, IMO). If Xbox doesn't match Sony this time though, it will be a HUGE mistake! I get the Gamepass focus, but they are trying to push this "Play it your way" narrative, and they will lose that narrative, big time, if they don't support VR for the Series consoles!

 

[GordoSan]

Just to update this Nibre situation, he says that his project "ReclaimerVR is on ice". The really interesting thing is that these 2 tweets are right next to each other on his time-line, as there was nothing in-between... during almost an entire pandemic, he never reached out on Twitter.





I know that some will say to take this at face value, but I've been literally saying that he was hired for months BECAUSE of this disappearance while working on Halo VR looking a lot like an NDA.... Now, to think he was somehow hired for anything other than THE THING he was pouring his blood, sweat, and tears into; the odds just seem well, astronomical!

Always look at the wording with an NDA. Of course "ReclaimerVR is on ice". That was HIS project name. If he was in fact hired to make the things he's been making the past couple years (just like his previous work: MotherVR, the Alien Isolation mod), then it would be an official work, from the ground up, due to copyright protection laws. He could not just port the project over. Just saying. This is extremely interesting, but probably just what it looks like: Successful VR modder was hired to make a successful VR version of Halo MCC.

 

[Two Pennys Worth]

Just to update this Nibre situation, he says that his project "ReclaimerVR is on ice". The really interesting thing is that these 2 tweets are right next to each other on his time-line, as there was nothing in-between... during almost an entire pandemic, he never reached out on Twitter.





I know that some will say to take this at face value, but I've been literally saying that he was hired for months BECAUSE of this disappearance while working on Halo VR looking a lot like an NDA.... Now, to think he was somehow hired for anything other than THE THING he was pouring his blood, sweat, and tears into; the odds just seem well, astronomical! Always look at the wording with an NDA. Of course "ReclaimerVR is on ice". That was HIS project name. If he was in fact hired to make the things he's been making the past couple years (just like his previous work: MotherVR, the Alien Isolation mod), then it would be an official work, from the ground up, due to copyright protection laws. He could not just port the project over. Just saying. This is extremely interesting, but probably just what it looks like: Successful VR modder was hired to make a successful VR version of Halo MCC.

Yes it seems unlikely he’d have been hired for anything but VR if that’s what his skill set is. Fingers crossed.

 

[GordoSan]

Yes it seems unlikely he’d have been hired for anything but VR if that’s what his skill set is. Fingers crossed.

Exactly. However, I do know that he was in fact a HUGE Halo fan, and involved in that community, so to play devil's advocate, maybe they just thought he was a passionate Halo modder, and wanted that for the team at 343i?

I just think that as someone who listens to VR podcasts, his Alien Isolation mod is held up like a crown jewel. (I've never played it, personally) That, and his work on getting the whole MCC into VR would have to have been what he has buried his heart and soul into for the past few years. I just don't see how that could NOT be what he was hired for. Usually, where there's smoke, there's fire. I personally, just had a hunch there was a fire, and said watch for the smoke. Smoke was found, and now looks to me, to be more like a smokescreen, which is hiding the actual fire... Cloudy, with a heaping chance of NDA.

 

[GordoSan]

And I just want to say that investigating hunches like this one is what led me to invest in MicroVision, the patent-holder of Hololens 2 and IVAS military-grade MR variant. MicroVision (MVIS) has NEVER been admitted to be core display engine technology by MSFT, to this day... NDA. However, it has been revealed in a tear-down last year, to be a fact. Something that MSFT still won't admit! THAT'S why I feel like I can sniff these NDAs so clearly.

I have a financial stake in MVIS, as well as MSFT, and do my own DD. There are absolutely patents pertaining to a crossover AR/VR device from MSFT coming. I could explain how in patents, but they are probably too boring for most. However, I would think that they would allow other wireless headsets to support VR, like Quest 2. I would just think that MSFT is smart enough to not have signing into Facebook as the main course. I think their device will be more premium, but may also have a voluntary Quest app in exchange for an Xbox app on the Quest device. In fact, having an official Xbox app for Gamepass on the Quest seems like a bigger reason for this crossover to happen than most people think. I also think that WMR is probably either done or will be reborn as a series of wireless devices, with newer and better technology, meant for prime time.

 

[GordoSan]

It's been a really dry well on any VR rumors since that weird headset VR prompt. However, there's been a lot of leaks on Valve's new rumored headset, codename: Deckard. This "stand-alone" headset has patents where they are shooting for verifocal lenses and dual-rendering between SteamDeck, a PC, or a console.

Why am I posting this here? Because they also have an interesting patent at Valve for a WiFi device on the headset that carries 2 lanes of WiFi (2.4, 5, or 6 GHz) at once. Well, look who just partnered with them on it!

 

[Kvally]

Is VR still a thing?

 

[Plainview]

Is VR still a thing?

Yes… for certain things.

 

[GordoSan]

Is VR still a thing?

Yeah, as RE4 is about to release Exclusive on Quest 2 (I know, but I'm excited AF for that) and Quest 2 hardware sales are still through the roof, up there w/ consoles. I cannot imagine how good they'd do if they weren't a Facebook company! They need competition!

PSVR2 will also be much bigger than the first, easily! They are planning to pull out all of the software stops this time.