Armed stand off in NV

I don't know anyone can say this is government overreach, gives me a migraine when I hear someone supporting this guy. They've been trying to work with this guy for two decades, the guy claimed to be there for centuries despite a lack of proof and documents only showing the Bundy folk have been there since the 40s/50s, he doesn't recognize the US, only the state of Nevada, but that state isn't even on his side, and for a guy who doesn't recognize this countries government, he certainly loves using certain rights guaranteed to him by his own government. Bundy has been given every opportunity to prove the government wrong and has failed each time and now all he has are armed neighbors. Honestly, if the US was run by an actual brutal dictator, then these guys would've been brutally killed long ago. Everyone has got to pay taxes and he's no different.
 
sharkboy1200 said:
I don't know anyone can say this is government overreach, gives me a migraine when I hear someone supporting this guy. They've been trying to work with this guy for two decades, the guy claimed to be there for centuries despite a lack of proof and documents only showing the Bundy folk have been there since the 40s/50s, he doesn't recognize the US, only the state of Nevada, but that state isn't even on his side, and for a guy who doesn't recognize this countries government, he certainly loves using certain rights guaranteed to him by his own government. Bundy has been given every opportunity to prove the government wrong and has failed each time and now all he has are armed neighbors. Honestly, if the US was run by an actual brutal dictator, then these guys would've been brutally killed long ago. Everyone has got to pay taxes and he's no different.
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I think you're confusing states rights with not believing in the federal government at all. He was willing to pay his fees to the rightful owners of the land, NV. if i remember correctly this was started over BLM charging him fees and not providing a service. He also took issue with the federal government running state land which is a big no no.

I blame NV for creating this problem in taking fed money and handing over control of the land more than i do anyone else, AZ has the same problem.
 
morfeeis said:
I think you're confusing states rights with not believing in the federal government at all. He was willing to pay his fees to the rightful owners of the land, NV. if i remember correctly this was started over BLM charging him fees and not providing a service. He also took issue with the federal government running state land which is a big no no.

I blame NV for creating this problem in taking fed money and handing over control of the land more than i do anyone else, AZ has the same problem.
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The guy has literally said that he doesn't recognize the federal government on TV. This isn't some kind of over embellishment. More importantly, he hasn't been provided a service because he hasn't paid anything in two decades. Why on earth does he deserve those services when he has refused to abide by very simple rules? Most other ranches abide by those rules, but he's special? More importantly, why is the state working with the federal government a big no-no? The US got those lands from Mexico in the 1800s. It's federally owned property. Something they can actually prove. His father bought a specific amount of land in the mid 1900s and 20 years ago, he decided he wanted more but didn't want to pay any extra taxes. Nevada declares that his state rights aren't supported in this situation but it's gotta mean that they're being bought out. Everything he's tried to put forward as the reason for him being in the right has either been proven wrong or he just simply doesn't have any actual evidence to support his claims. NV can't hand over property that they don't actually own. The state didn't actually exist when the US acquired that territory. How can Bundy argue about his family owning land for centuries, then leave out the first legal owners, the US federal government, one which he doesn't recognize.
 
sharkboy1200 said:
They've been trying to work with this guy for two decades.
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Absolutely, if by "working with him" you mean taking him to court for 20 years.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...ween-cliven-bundy-and-the-federal-government/

Keep in mind, I'm not on Bundy's side on this one. I personally don't believe this particular situation justifies a violent rebellion against the federal government, and that there are better avenues for resolving the situation. I also find his strategy (or whatever supporter came up with it) of putting women in front of the feds (so that if anything did go down, he'd have propaganda against the government) as particularly disgusting.

On the other hand, I'm not going to pretend like the government isn't fully responsible for creating this situation by threatening the livelihood of ranchers all over Nevada (and Bundy definitely isn't the only one disgruntled about their grazing policy) for the sake of an incompetent turtle.
 
Soldier Gryphon said:
Absolutely, if by "working with him" you mean taking him to court for 20 years.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...ween-cliven-bundy-and-the-federal-government/

Keep in mind, I'm not on Bundy's side on this one. I personally don't believe this particular situation justifies a violent rebellion against the federal government, and that there are better avenues for resolving the situation. I also find his strategy (or whatever supporter came up with it) of putting women in front of the feds (so that if anything did go down, he'd have propaganda against the government) as particularly disgusting.

On the other hand, I'm not going to pretend like the government isn't fully responsible for creating this situation by threatening the livelihood of ranchers all over Nevada (and Bundy definitely isn't the only one disgruntled about their grazing policy) for the sake of an incompetent turtle.
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Right off the bat I see things I'm disagreeing with. The biggest claim he has is that his family and Mormon ancestors purchased the land, but we gotta take his word. If he had some kind of proof, this would be a no brainer, but we gotta take his word for it? I also love it how it's all because of a "incompetent turtle." Like the US attempting to protect wildlife and endangered species is some kind of new action. They take some land they already own, and convert it to a Wildlife Preserve for these turtles. Now those free roaming cows are apparently threatening more than turtles, like Wild Horse habitats. Every bit of evidence I read just goes against this guy more and more. Not gonna say that the government is some kind of "can do know wrong" entity, but obviously the livelihood of ranchers has been kept in tact. Guy even had the tax rate he would've been charged reduced big time. Won't keep track of his cows, won't pay his bills, won't recognize the US government, won't listen to this state government, and could be argued as a domestic terrorist.

I do think there's room for compromise on how much land these habitats take up, but I'm not seeing any reason why they shouldn't have to pay taxes for using federal property. That's exactly what it is. Nevada can't even say it without looking crooked now because some are so focused in government corruption that they can't see that this guy doesn't have a leg to stand on.
 
Time to just send in the swat team. Get the ordeal over with (if it isn't already). This is just an example of an idiot being an idiot.
 
lol, there was a poster here, forgot who, that used this as an example of "Obama" taking away someone's home to give to the poor.....and I think he was serious.

tinfoil hats indeed.
 
sharkboy1200 said:
The guy has literally said that he doesn't recognize the federal government on TV.
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I find it especially cute that he says that then waves around the federal government's flag on TV.

ClivenBundy-flag.jpg


He's a walking contradiction supported by idiots.
 
Qbert said:
lol, there was a poster here, forgot who, that used this as an example of "Obama" taking away someone's home to give to the poor.....and I think he was serious.

tinfoil hats indeed.
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thanks-obama-parking-spot.jpg
 
sharkboy1200 said:
The guy has literally said that he doesn't recognize the federal government on TV. This isn't some kind of over embellishment. More importantly, he hasn't been provided a service because he hasn't paid anything in two decades. Why on earth does he deserve those services when he has refused to abide by very simple rules? Most other ranches abide by those rules, but he's special? More importantly, why is the state working with the federal government a big no-no? The US got those lands from Mexico in the 1800s. It's federally owned property. Something they can actually prove. His father bought a specific amount of land in the mid 1900s and 20 years ago, he decided he wanted more but didn't want to pay any extra taxes. Nevada declares that his state rights aren't supported in this situation but it's gotta mean that they're being bought out. Everything he's tried to put forward as the reason for him being in the right has either been proven wrong or he just simply doesn't have any actual evidence to support his claims. NV can't hand over property that they don't actually own. The state didn't actually exist when the US acquired that territory. How can Bundy argue about his family owning land for centuries, then leave out the first legal owners, the US federal government, one which he doesn't recognize.
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1:You'd have a hard time trying to prove that he doesn't recognize the federal government while he is flying the US flag. he doesn't recognize the federal government's power over the state which is a completely different matter.

2:He stopped paying his fees 20 years ago when he wasn't given the service he was paying for. also the 52 other ranches in the same area have been pushed out by the BLMt, he is the last hold out. they restricted their rights and put overwhelming restrictions on what they could do and the ranches could not make enough to survive.

3: your last point just makes my head spin, his family homesteaded the land in the late 1800, there was no paperwork then. You saw land, you did upkeep on said land and it became your land. I also really wish people would stop with this federal government owns land stuff, there is a reason we have washington DC set up the way we do, look into it. As for him having the land before we were a country; you do know we became a country in 1791 right?
 
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Soldier Gryphon said:
Keep in mind, I'm not on Bundy's side on this one. I personally don't believe this particular situation justifies a violent rebellion against the federal government, and that there are better avenues for resolving the situation. I also find his strategy (or whatever supporter came up with it) of putting women in front of the feds (so that if anything did go down, he'd have propaganda against the government) as particularly disgusting.
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I also bought into what Mack said and even after watching the video before hand i didn't question it. B8ut i went back and looked at the live footage and you can clearly see that while SOME women were on the lines when guns were drawn by the BLM mounted riders were in the lead of everyone else. If you also look at the raw footage you can clearly see that the women were few and far between. Add to that that the BLM didn't have a problem putting unarmed people under sniper watch before any of the large crowds showed up.
 
What a swell guy this Bundy guy is.

“I want to tell you one more thing I know about the Negro,” he said. Mr. Bundy recalled driving past a public-housing project in North Las Vegas, “and in front of that government house the door was usually open and the older people and the kids — and there is always at least a half a dozen people sitting on the porch — they didn’t have nothing to do. They didn’t have nothing for their kids to do. They didn’t have nothing for their young girls to do.

“And because they were basically on government subsidy, so now what do they do?” he asked. “They abort their young children, they put their young men in jail, because they never learned how to pick cotton. And I’ve often wondered, are they better off as slaves, picking cotton and having a family life and doing things, or are they better off under government subsidy? They didn’t get no more freedom. They got less freedom.”
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http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/24/u...-becoming-a-hero-in-the-west.html?hpw&rref=us
 
I'm sure they can work out a deal where they take the cost of 6 cows out of the millions he owes them. It's odd that he doesn't recognize the federal government when he owes them money, but when he feels he is owed for lost cattle he suddenly recognizes them.

His personal views are important when he's championed around by anti-guberment folks as a hero and victim. Character issues will obviously be brought up. He's been caught lying a number of times to bolster his case. Now, not surprisingly, he has some pretty extreme views of "negros." The man is delusional, as are many of his supporters. He's a terrible example to parade around for this cause.
 
How about you talk about the cows the BLM killed and who is going to pay for that
horns said:
I'm sure they can work out a deal where they take the cost of 6 cows out of the millions he owes them. It's odd that he doesn't recognize the federal government when he owes them money, but when he feels he is owed for lost cattle he suddenly recognizes them.

His personal views are important when he's championed around by anti-guberment folks as a hero and victim. Character issues will obviously be brought up. He's been caught lying a number of times to bolster his case. Now, not surprisingly, he has some pretty extreme views of "negros." The man is delusional, as are many of his supporters. He's a terrible example to parade around for this cause.
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Can you please explain to me why if he didn't recognize the federal government why he is flying the federal flag? Could there be something you're missing, a simple point that you don't understand? here's a tip I said it two post ago.

His personal views have nothing to do with his battle to live a life free of being pushed out of a family business that's been around before the BLM. What is the issue, the whole bundy thing is simply a symptom of a much bigger problem, people are sick of being walked over by the federal government.

Just the fact that people say it's ok to charge a man a fee to use unused land when his cows do more good for the land then the people who are paid to protect it is a big red flag. add to that he has improved upon the land, been using said land since the late 1800's. or add to that that you can trespass on public property, that's like me being charged with rape for jerking it.

But hey a story that has gotten very little press will now be everywhere because there is now a race issue and this will give the simple minded a reason to follow some racist redneck backwoods cowboy get what's coming to him.

screw Posse Comitatus; bring on the drones and warthogs.....
 
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You're citing claims about his family that are false. Court records show that his family's cattle didn't grazing the land until 1954. His family wasn't in that town until 1948 when his parents bought property there and there were long periods of time when they weren't even there. BLM was established in 1946, prior to his claims. He can claim his family predates the BLM, but no official records show this.

http://www.8newsnow.com/story/25302186/an-abbreviated-look-at-rancher-cliven-bundys-family-history
http://www.8newsnow.com/story/25301551/bundys-ancestral-rights-come-under-scrutiny

Nevada's own state constitution recognizes the federal governments claims to that land. He claims to only recognize the states authority.

The courts have ruled against him 3 times now.

Sounds like the big issue here is the big bad guberment, nothing more.
 
Like I said a page ago, if he recognizes Nevada laws in which he claims to then he is required to recognize the federal government as its written in Nevada's constitution.
 
horns said:
You're citing claims about his family that are false. Court records show that his family's cattle didn't grazing the land until 1954. His family wasn't in that town until 1948 when his parents bought property there and there were long periods of time when they weren't even there. BLM was established in 1946, prior to his claims. He can claim his family predates the BLM, but no official records show this.

http://www.8newsnow.com/story/25302186/an-abbreviated-look-at-rancher-cliven-bundys-family-history
http://www.8newsnow.com/story/25301551/bundys-ancestral-rights-come-under-scrutiny

Nevada's own state constitution recognizes the federal governments claims to that land. He claims to only recognize the states authority.

The courts have ruled against him 3 times now.

Sounds like the big issue here is the big bad guberment, nothing more.
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While i will admit that his family may not have held that very plot of land since 1877 his family had been improving and farming those lands since the 1880's. and yes that is well before the BLM was around. Hell his family has deep roots in that state, Bundyville.

As for your court case comment i'll just say two cases dred scott and black codes.


yes the problem is the big bad overreaching government, there was no resson this should have been a problem in the first place and BLM made a issue out of a cow pie.
 
Now that we've whittled down all the taking points, I really don't have much to add.

horns said:
And as my points become weaker I can highlight some unrelated example as proof that it's a conspiracy!1!!!
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I already predicted this post, so on that note, I'm done with this thread.
 
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