That video makes it look like Microsoft is a little rag tag operation, fly by night type thing...
Dedicated Servers Or Not?
- Thread starter Hissatsu
- Start date
That video makes it look like Microsoft is a little rag tag operation, fly by night type thing...
No. The distance has very little to do with lag. It is all about the number of routers you pass through to get to the back bone. Since I started following this thread again today I have been tracert'ing and pinging different addresses all over the world.
Very consistently my time to back bone through my router is 150ms. Then to Beijing servers on the backbone it is only an additional 100ms. Because of that, the round trip to a server hosted on my neighbors router would be slower than both of us playing on a data center server hosted in Beijing.
If you are going out over the internet, a data center hosted server will ALWAYS (and by ALWAYS i mean ALWAYS, no exceptions, what so ever ever, not even your imagined edge case scenarios).
The only time a local server would be faster is if you were on a LAN.
@XBoxNeo adding on to the made up crap.
This is getting ridiculous. Now I remember why I stopped discussing technology online.
Especially with dominant near monopolistic ISPs what you said is just made up and untrue. Not that I believe a word about what the "probably the second biggest troll in internet history" says anyways.
I still don't get why you showed up at TXB saying that and @Plainview still lets you post.
This is getting ridiculous. Now I remember why I stopped discussing technology online.
Especially with dominant near monopolistic ISPs what you said is just made up and untrue. Not that I believe a word about what the "probably the second biggest troll in internet history" says anyways.
I still don't get why you showed up at TXB saying that and @Plainview still lets you post.
there is no denying that # of hops can increase latency. I say CAN, not always, but more likely than not.
And the number of hops you make is pretty much always affected by the distance between 2 systems.
You can't make a hard lined statement either way.. you definitely can't make the absolutely ridiculous claim that a datacenter hosted solution would always be faster than your neighbor.
Saying one thing that is accurate doesn't make your flat out wrong statements true.
But XboxNeo is a blatant troll who makes things up on purpose to frustrate conversations. Like the time he claimed all Xbox 360 code was compiled down to MISL. lol
"Distance" is just an easy way to average what your ping will probably be in a conversation like this. You can get a horrible ping with a nearby server and a better ping with a far away server.. that doesn't mean that on average the nearer server isn't better for latency.
His statement is just.. impossible.. you will ALWAYS get a better connection to a datacenter? Total nonsense..
You won't ALWAYS get a better connection to your neighbor, and quite possible you won't, but that doesn't make the opposite true.
You are the one concern trolling on this thread. You don't even belong on this part of the forum dude.
This is a game changer, and here is the part that makes you a troll... And you know it.
What does that even mean?
Where did I say it wasn't a game changer? I just don't use hyperbolic language like that.
I've said in many threads that MS's cloud solution is a boon to developers, and in turn will be a boon to gamers.
That doesn't make the fact that you invent techno-babble on purpose to troll any less true b133r. And it doesn't mean we won't still see listen servers used, even by games that utilize MS's cloud for dedicated servers.
mmmmm...yeaaaah. Sure. But i would say that for the vast majority of people going through "cloud" is better than whatever mechanism they are using now for player hosted games. Even for neighbors, they arent LANing it up or anything.
We really have no way of making a statement like that. Way too many variables. Majority? Probably.. but it's anyone's guess.
There could be entire regions that experience not great pings with MS's data-centers.
Nobody is claiming the majority won't benefit from dedicated servers. It's this black and white "dedicated is ALWAYS better" that is wrong. I don't understand why people are so sensitive about this topic.
The real issue at hand is whether or not developers will support listen servers.. if they do, the game HAS to be coded to fit within the memory/processing state of "Total minus Server needs." If they don't, then the games multiplayer mode doesn't have to account for making room for a potential server.
Some devs might not support them at all and use all dedicated.. some devs might not.. and better performance might be a reason for that.
I just did. And Im willing to say that when you take in to account all the variables, the vast majority of players will see a benefit of cloud hosted games vs player hosted.
Vast majority, yes for sure, not for everyone all the time. That's what bunz is getting at. There are some exceptions where a listen server would be fast. There is no absolute either eay
LOL, you know what I meant. You can say it, but you can't really claim it's definitely true. It might be true, but really how "vast" that majority is would be a huge factor.
I just don't get this big bash on listen servers. They were and are a brilliant solution.. really very similar to how "the cloud" works in many ways, and in some ways they are "cloud based."
Dispersed all over the world.. a service determines where the best location for a given game would be.. server is dynamically started at that location and hosts are dynamically told to connect to it.
And with connections improving all over the world.. listen server based gaming will only get better and better.
Infinite dedicated servers are awesome too.. I honestly think the combination would be the best for any given game. They compliment each other well, with listen servers filling in the gaps where for whatever reason networking conditions aren't great for a group of people to where the dedicateds are.
This topic = dedicated servers aren't 100% perfect and in some situations aren't the best for some users.
This topic = MS's cloud doesn't provide a lag free connection with magic lag free ferry dust for all users who can magically lag free play games together in different universes.
I'm being sensitive about that?
No.. I'm not being sensitive at all about that, I'm being reasonable.. despite being a huge Xbox fan I'm not crying because someone is saying that listen servers might still exist on Xbox One. In fact, I think it's a good thing.
I'm being sensitive towards a bunch of people spouting off misinformation? Yes, I am.. but that's not the topic of the thread.
LOL@ bigger trying to imply I'm some MS hater or Sony fanboy or something. Love that because I'm willing to not be hyperbolic about every single aspect of the products I enjoy I'm accused of being a fanboy.
This topic = MS's cloud doesn't provide a lag free connection with magic lag free ferry dust for all users who can magically lag free play games together in different universes.
I'm being sensitive about that?
No.. I'm not being sensitive at all about that, I'm being reasonable.. despite being a huge Xbox fan I'm not crying because someone is saying that listen servers might still exist on Xbox One. In fact, I think it's a good thing.
I'm being sensitive towards a bunch of people spouting off misinformation? Yes, I am.. but that's not the topic of the thread.
LOL@ bigger trying to imply I'm some MS hater or Sony fanboy or something. Love that because I'm willing to not be hyperbolic about every single aspect of the products I enjoy I'm accused of being a fanboy.
There's nothing like a reasonable, well-crafted and intelligent argument and what I quoted is exactly that... nothing like a reasonable, well-crafted and intelligent argument.
My guess is the best thing about all this is not having too deal with lag switching and what not and not getting migrating host signs every game that the host wants to quit....there still will be lag.Those 2 things are worth it's weight too me.
Yeah reliability is a big key to a dedicated servers. No issues with hosts quitting.
Back in the days of "user hosted servers" that weren't match-made I thought having "a good host" was especially cool though. A good host that kicks annoying chatters or team killers, etc. was actually kind of nice.
I found some great people playing Rainbow Six 3's terrorist hunt on the original XBL and had a nice friends lists of people who ran servers well. Of course it also sucked if you ran into a bad host who kicked the good players, lol.
Back in the days of "user hosted servers" that weren't match-made I thought having "a good host" was especially cool though. A good host that kicks annoying chatters or team killers, etc. was actually kind of nice.
I found some great people playing Rainbow Six 3's terrorist hunt on the original XBL and had a nice friends lists of people who ran servers well. Of course it also sucked if you ran into a bad host who kicked the good players, lol.
This thread went bananas.
Yay!!! Concern trolls are so much fun. Yes, Azure servers will eliminate about 95% of all the causes of lag right now, but we need to focus on the edge cases, where a scientist is trying to game in low earth orbit or from Antarctica.
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Well say you are a computer tech/nerd, and you are stealing internet from your aunt Gertrude by shooting wifi from a couple of home made Yagi antennas across town. You are gonna have some lag...
But that's ok. Be a good little Marxist and blame the almost monopolies of Microsoft and the cable company for your bad internet connection...
If my customers, who I am forced to deal with by ordinance and regulation, routinely stole my stuff... I would treat them that way as well.
Seriously... Way too sensitive.
Developers might take into account those "edge cases" and continue to support listen servers alongside dedicated.
Me saying that makes me a concern troll?
Suddenly we are all "focusing" on that?
Go pretend to be a real estate developer audio engineer software geek somewhere else "second biggest troll on the internet."
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=concern+troll
Yes. You are a concern troll. Pick your definition of concern troll on that link. You have done all those things.
You are the one trolling big guy. I'm trying to discuss the fact that listen servers might still be used and why.. which.. isn't remotely concerning to anyone living within reality or not pretending to be upset or purposefully shouting BS to derail threads.
If I was trolling, why would I say I think listen servers being an option is a good thing?
Oh yeah.. because I'm not trolling. I've literally never trolled anyone in my life without it being an obvious joke that I include some sort of troll smiley on. I am not here to get reactions, I'm here to discuss things. The reactions to what I say are the fault of the people reacting not me.
If I was trolling, why would I say I think listen servers being an option is a good thing?
Oh yeah.. because I'm not trolling. I've literally never trolled anyone in my life without it being an obvious joke that I include some sort of troll smiley on. I am not here to get reactions, I'm here to discuss things. The reactions to what I say are the fault of the people reacting not me.