Have we seen our first "next gen" game yet?

[This_Hard_Land]

The fourth generation (SNES, Genesis) had this:

The fifth generation (N64, PS) had this:

The sixth generation (PS2, XBox, NGC) had this:

The seventh generation (XB360, PS3) had this:

We're almost two years into the eighth generation and I'm not sure we have that first "next gen" game. Many would argue that The Phantom Pain is the best game of this generation but that game does an admirable job on the PS3 and XBox360 so by that simple fact, I don't think it fits the bill.

Answers will vary drastically depending on how each of us define what a next generation game really is. From my perspective, it's a game that simply couldn't be done on last gen systems even with a reasonable downgrade in visuals.

So do you think we already have this game? Do you think it's still coming down the pipeline? Or do you think the term is basically dead at this point?

I'm hoping the term isn't dead and I have my eyes on both Halo 5 and No Man's Sky for different reasons. If 343i can give us large scale battlefields with accordingly large AI and have 4 players doing there thing at the same time, I think that'll be it. No Man's Sky, to me, almost seems to assuredly fit the bill, the question is whether or not the game will be fun for any length of time.

 

[Andy]

Witcher 3 was the first one I really considered next-gen. I guess you could say Ryse or The Order or something like that, just based on the visuals, but I'm thinking in terms of the visuals and the breadth/depth of the game.

 

[jimmyD]

See Ryse/The Order

 

[de3d1]

Visually yes.

Ryse, The Order, and Mad Max, imo the scale and effects is just something that couldn't be done on last gen, and it wasn't even attempted.

 

[yankeessuck]

The Witcher is what came to mind first but I take issue with some of your choices. Wouldn't Sonic and GTA 3 be better examples than Mario Kart and MGS 2? And Gears of War instead of COD 4 (I assume thats what you meant with that gif).

 

[Kvally]

I don't think DriveClub could have been done last gen (going by officially released games).

 

[This_Hard_Land]

See Ryse/The Order

I don't agree with this at all.

I think if you downgraded the visuals significantly, you could have a game that plays pretty much exactly the same as Ryse and The Order on last gen systems. You couldn't downgrade Mario 64's graphics and have it play well on the SNES. Same goes with all the aforementioned "first next gen games".

 

[de3d1]

You couldn't downgrade Mario 64's graphics and have it play well on the SNES.

 

[Spiritech]

For the PS2, Xbox, NGC gen. I would say Soul Calibur on DC kicked it off, not only was it arcade perfect it was superior with its added adventure mode.

 

[Andy]

I don't agree with this at all.

I think if you downgraded the visuals significantly, you could have a game that plays pretty much exactly the same as Ryse and The Order on last gen systems. You couldn't downgrade Mario 64's graphics and have it play well on the SNES. Same goes with all the aforementioned "first next gen games".

I disagree that graphics are irrelevant. Graphics are the main factor that people reference, when contrasting one generation with the last. That is especially true of the last two generations, less so in the more distant past, when big gameplay innovations (e.g., leaps to 3D, open worlds) were more central. Now, it's mostly about graphics -- not entirely, but mostly.

 

[This_Hard_Land]

I disagree that graphics are irrelevant. Graphics are the main factor that people reference, when contrasting one generation with the last. That is especially true of the last two generations, less so in the more distant past, when big gameplay innovations (e.g., leaps to 3D, open worlds) were more central. Now, it's mostly about graphics -- not entirely, but mostly.

Maybe I'm being too harsh on the graphics but I think in order to be a true next gen game, you need to look next gen and play next gen. Ryse and The Order both look next gen but they play decidedly old school. Not only did Mario 64 look like nothing on the SNES but that experience couldn't even be watered down to play like on the SNES. I feel like Ryse and The Order both play like games from 2002 or so.

I guess I'm just trying to find those games that couldn't really be done on the last generation of consoles.

The Witcher is what came to mind first but I take issue with some of your choices. Wouldn't Sonic and GTA 3 be better examples than Mario Kart and MGS 2? And Gears of War instead of COD 4 (I assume thats what you meant with that gif).

Yeah, perhaps Sonic and GTA3 are better examples. GTA3 certainly was one of those games that couldn't even be attempted on prior hardware. Sonic, kind of feels like Soul Caliber on the DC, in that it felt like half of a "true next gen" experience.

 

[DriedMangoes]

 

[The Living Tribunal]

Visual wise Ryse/Crysis 3 are just in a league of their own. Especially if we are including the PC in this debate.

After that Witcher 3 and if we are talking specifically in the console space I'd still say Witcher 3.
The Witcher 3 on consoles pushes those systems to the brink with a heavily detailed world, a weather system, and seamless loading (when traveling to different zones.)

 

[OneBadMutha]

Forzas Driviator AI is next gen. Halo 5s Warzone absolutely could not be done on the 360 with any respectable frame rate.

But this is kind of a silly question. You cannot get those kinds of jumps generation to generation anymore. Doubling polygons from NES to Super Nintnendo had a significant effect. Doubling polygons from Playstation to PS2 had a significant effect. Doubling the stuff you put into the characters and environments just doesn't have the same visual impact. Law of diminishing returns.

If you're talking about the perceived impact rather than the technical difference in stuff on screen, nothing will be next gen until cloud gaming is used to a greater extent.

 

[menace-uk-]

Yes, and its name was Forza 5. Driveatars are the defining feature of this gen thus far. MGS 5, witcher 3, Ryse, etc are doing nothing new at all, thaey are just bigger or prettier. Fora 5 has changed racing games, simple as that.

 

[This_Hard_Land]

Forzas Driviator AI is next gen. Halo 5s Warzone absolutely could not be done on the 360 with any respectable frame rate.

I don't think either Drivatar or Halo 5's Warzone constitute a truly next gen game.

I fail to see how the PS3/XB360 couldn't keep a players driver characteristics and communicate those characteristics to others in an online setting. All you have to do is keep track of a players times, how far/often they deviate from the racing line, and how often they initiate contact with other players to give online bots a driving personality. Then somehow communicate the results of that simple algorythm to other in an online race. It's a cool feature and it's innovative, but a cool feature doesn't exactly scream next gen to me. In fact, only hardcore racing game fans would even be able to tell that drivatars exist. Give anyone else Forza 5 or Forza 6 and they think it's a prettier version of the last gen games. The same can not be said for Mario 64, GTAIII etc...

Also, I'm not so sure about Halo's Warzone mode considering how complicated MAG, GTAV, Battlefield 4, and Titanfall are on last gen systems. It would look a hell of a lot worse but I think you could get the play experience translated pretty well.

 

[menace-uk-]

I don't think either Drivatar or Halo 5's Warzone constitute a truly next gen game.

I fail to see how the PS3/XB360 couldn't keep a players driver characteristics and communicate those characteristics to others in an online setting. All you have to do is keep track of a players times, how far/often they deviate from the racing line, and how often they initiate contact with other players to give online bots a driving personality. Then somehow communicate the results of that simple algorythm to other in an online race. It's a cool feature and it's innovative, but a cool feature doesn't exactly scream next gen to me. In fact, only hardcore racing game fans would even be able to tell that drivatars exist. Give anyone else Forza 5 or Forza 6 and they think it's a prettier version of the last gen games. The same can not be said for Mario 64, GTAIII etc...

Also, I'm not so sure about Halo's Warzone mode considering how complicated MAG, GTAV, Battlefield 4, and Titanfall are on last gen systems. It would look a hell of a lot worse but I think you could get the play experience translated pretty well.

Doesn't matter if something is uber popular, or if it could or could not be done last-gen. Driveatars are this gen, and they make a huge impact on the genre. There is no other game doing this sort of thing, all other games are doing the typical, bigger and prettier, which isn't defining a generation at all. Bigger and prettier is expected, and it happens every gen.

Gears of War was a generation defining game, not because of its graphics, but because of the impact it had on a genre, and the industry as a whole.

 

[This_Hard_Land]

Doesn't matter if something is uber popular, or if it could or could not be done last-gen. Driveatars are this gen, and they make a huge impact on the genre. There is no other game doing this sort of thing, all other games are doing the typical, bigger and prettier, which isn't defining a generation at all. Bigger and prettier is expected, and it happens every gen.

Gears of War was a generation defining game, not because of its graphics, but because of the impact it had on a genre, and the industry as a whole.

I think you're answering a question that was not asked in the OP.

 

[menace-uk-]

I think you're answering a question that was not asked in the OP.

Nope. I am answering the only question this thread asks. All you are doing is arguing silly nonsense because you can not bear the thought of the Xbox having the only generation defining game.

MGS 5, Witcher 3, etc , are doing nothing new and/or have no real impact on the genre or industry. Why on earth would thyy be considered a generation defining game? because they do exactly what we expect them to do. They may be great games, but generation defining

Forza 5 and its driveatar system totally changes the way racing games play, and thus it is the only candidate for the position of generation defining game. Everything else is last-gen with bigger worlds and/or prettier graphics.

 

[This_Hard_Land]

Nope. I am answering the only question this thread asks. All you are doing is arguing silly nonsense because you can not bear the thought of the Xbox having the only generation defining game.

"From my perspective, it's a game that simply couldn't be done on last gen systems even with a reasonable downgrade in visuals. So do you think we already have this game?"

"I'm hoping the term isn't dead and I have my eyes on Halo 5..."

MGS 5, Witcher 3, etc , are doing nothing new and/or have no real impact on the genre or industry. Why on earth would thyy be considered a generation defining game? because they do exactly what we expect them to do. They may be great games, but generation defining

"Many would argue that The Phantom Pain is the best game of this generation"

Forza 5 and its driveatar system totally changes the way racing games play, and thus it is the only candidate for the position of generation defining game. Everything else is last-gen with bigger worlds and/or prettier graphics.

"...it's a game that simply couldn't be done on last gen systems"

Isn't drivatar a feature that could be done on last gen systems?

 

[menace-uk-]

"From my perspective, it's a game that simply couldn't be done on last gen systems even with a reasonable downgrade in visuals. So do you think we already have this game?"

"I'm hoping the term isn't dead and I have my eyes on Halo 5..."



"Many would argue that The Phantom Pain is the best game of this generation"



"...it's a game that simply couldn't be done on last gen systems"

Isn't drivatar a feature that could be done on last gen systems?

Best game is irrelevant, and no, Driveatars couldn't be on last-gen systems, the network infrastructure isn't there. Why do you think Horizon 2 on 360 didn't have it?

MGS 5 can be done on last-gen systems, oh wait, it was. So best game means what? exactly. Witcher 3 could also be done on last-gen hardware, it just wouldn't be as pretty. Hence the obvious and rather logical point I am making. Bigger and/or prettier worlds are not genre defining.

Forza 5 is currently the only game that does anything that could be considered genre/generation defining. Eveything else has simply been par for the course.

 

[This_Hard_Land]

 

[Oblong]

Strictly from a playing perspective and not getting into all the tech mumbo jumbo, I feel that Forza and the drivatar experience was something that made me feel the "leap" to a new generation of gaming. It most certainly is noticeable for anyone that has previously played a racing game and is a HUGE gamechanger.

DriedMangoes noted Until Dawn and even though I am sure it can be argued that tech-wise it could be on a previous gen system, I have to say playing through it there are so many new, creative, and exciting things going on in the game that it makes it stand out unique from all the rest of the derivative rehashes that have been the go-to formula of releases since launch for both systems. From an Indie standpoint I saw a lot of breakaway creativity in the Tearaway Unfolded demo too (which by the way was amazingly long, for a moment I thought I had accidentally purchased the game!).

I know this doesn't meet THL's strict standards and understand what he is going for. For him I think he may have his true answer when Crackdown 3 releases. Everything shown there has been absolutely only possible on a next-gen system.

 

[menace-uk-]

Strictly from a playing perspective and not getting into all the tech mumbo jumbo, I feel that Forza and the drivatar experience was something that made me feel the "leap" to a new generation of gaming. It most certainly is noticeable for anyone that has previously played a racing game and is a HUGE gamechanger.

DriedMangoes noted Until Dawn and even though I am sure it can be argued that tech-wise it could be on a previous gen system, I have to say playing through it there are so many new, creative, and exciting things going on in the game that it makes it stand out unique from all the rest of the derivative rehashes that have been the go-to formula of releases since launch for both systems. From an Indie standpoint I saw a lot of breakaway creativity in the Tearaway Unfolded demo too (which by the way was amazingly long, for a moment I thought I had accidentally purchased the game!).

I know this doesn't meet THL's strict standards and understand what he is going for. For him I think he may have his true answer when Crackdown 3 releases. Everything shown there has been absolutely only possible on a next-gen system.

Tearaway is a remaster, though.

 

[Kvally]

I have forgotten about the drivatars. Use of the cloud could have a huge impact this gen, just like how this gen consoles default to cloud saves, with one even offering unlimited cloud space. Crackdown 3 is probably another game that couldn't be done last gen, when you look at how the multiplayer is using the cloud for entire city destructibility (yes, it is not out yet, I was just giving myself some perspective).

 

[menace-uk-]

I have forgotten about the drivatars. Use of the cloud could have a huge impact this gen, just like how this gen consoles default to cloud saves, with one even offering unlimited cloud space. Crackdown 3 is probably another game that couldn't be done last gen, when you look at how the multiplayer is using the cloud for entire city destructibility (yes, it is not out yet, I was just giving myself some perspective).

The cloud isn't going to have a huge industry impact this gen, it should have had , but it is platform specific. Unless Sony tries to match it and MS brings it to the PC, it will unfortunately be limited to Xbox Exclusive software. So its industry wide impact will likely be minimal.

All I know is that trying to play the archaic A.I in racing games like Project CARS and F1 2015 is now a horrible experience. Driveatars has shown us a far superior way to do A.I, and I can not go back.

Would love to see this method extended to other genres, like Bots in Halo or COD, or matches in FIFA & Madden.

 

[Kvally]

Would love to see this method extended to other genres, like Bots in Halo or COD, or matches in FIFA & Madden.

Titanfall?

 

[menace-uk-]

Titanfall?

What about it? The Titanfall cloud based A.I was a very different beast. It was cannon fodder rather than competitive A.I

 

[Kvally]

What about it? The Titanfall cloud based A.I was a very different beast. It was cannon fodder rather than competitive A.I

I was just saying it had cloud based bots. I wonder if TF2 will dramatically improve that use of cloud based bots to make it more next gen.

 

[menace-uk-]

I was just saying it had cloud based bots. I wonder if TF2 will dramatically improve that use of cloud based bots to make it more next gen.

Can A.I with no .I really be considered A.I

I doubt they will improve them in terms of intelligence or combat efficiency, they played out as intended in TF1.