Looks like $15 minimum wage is happening.

[Videodrome]

Exactly.

And to cut back on costs, what are people going to do if a store wants to do this...

1. Cut back that guy from $10/hr, 8 hrs ($80) to $15, 5-6 hours ($75-90)?

or

2. How are employees going to react if the store says "Ok, you all are now going to get $15/hr, but in return management wants yo to do more tasks"

It's not a one way street.

Lol. How much are those managers getting paid? Are all of them doing more for their higher wage?

To be fair, some of them really are, but I think many of them do less in a labor sense.

It can be looked at in many ways from different points of view. The laborers on the floor doing physical work while taking orders from a manager/foreman who just directs other people's labor.

 

[sharkboy1200]

 

[Dark Helmet]

I would love to have someone explain to me how someone can live off $7.25/hour. That's $290/week... before taxes. Take out taxes, gas money to travel to/from job, rent, food... LOL. Good luck. I know we can't just raise it without impacting the economy, but damn. I think 25 years ago I made $6/hour. Today, $7.25 won't even get you a fast food combo meal.

Minimum wage jobs aren't meant to support a family. They are meant for low skilled people just getting into the work force, like teenagers.
People who think this will work are just ignorant to the way the free market system works. Been to a Walmart lately? Self checkout kiosks are already showing up there and in other big box stores. Pretty soon, I bet over half of the cashiers will be replaced by them and probably a bigger percentage when they get a good RFID system going.
You people need to be asking the bigger questions.
Where did all the manufacturing jobs go? With the ridiculously high corporate taxes and ridiculous regulations, they have left the country. Of course, the left blames the companies and not their policies that drove them out...Bring back the manufacturing jobs back and the debate on minimum wage becomes irrelevant.
What about the flood of cheap labor coming into this country on a daily basis? There is an over abundance of cheap, unskilled workers due to the lack of any sort of border security. Cut the flow, and wages may rise naturally, they have no reason to rise now. There is too much cheap labor. This wont happen because the left sees future voters and the right sees cheap labor.
There are so many more things to concentrate on than minimum wage...

 

[Kerosene31]

Minimum wage jobs aren't meant to support a family. They are meant for low skilled people just getting into the work force, like teenagers.
People who think this will work are just ignorant to the way the free market system works. Been to a Walmart lately? Self checkout kiosks are already showing up there and in other big box stores. Pretty soon, I bet over half of the cashiers will be replaced by them and probably a bigger percentage when they get a good RFID system going.
You people need to be asking the bigger questions.
Where did all the manufacturing jobs go? With the ridiculously high corporate taxes and ridiculous regulations, they have left the country. Of course, the left blames the companies and not their policies that drove them out...Bring back the manufacturing jobs back and the debate on minimum wage becomes irrelevant.
What about the flood of cheap labor coming into this country on a daily basis? There is an over abundance of cheap, unskilled workers due to the lack of any sort of border security. Cut the flow, and wages may rise naturally, they have no reason to rise now. There is too much cheap labor. This wont happen because the left sees future voters and the right sees cheap labor.
There are so many more things to concentrate on than minimum wage...

Quoted right out of the GOP handbook. Blame "big gov't and immigrants". Manufacturing jobs left because companies moved them all to China where people will work for pennies. It has nothing to do with government regulations, just simple supply and demand. Go around and look at anything and tell me how many things say Made in China. Manufacturing jobs aren't coming back. That's a lie politicians tell us to get elected.

I also never said the job should support a family. The idea that minimum wage jobs are only held by teenagers is yet another myth. Go into any store or restaurant and you'll see tons of people working there who are not teenagers. Teenagers move out of these jobs because they have parents to live with and help support them. Many older people end up in these jobs for various reasons, and for them it becomes a hole they can't climb out of. How are you supposed to get education or job training or even afford a suit for the interview when you have no money?

People worry about the cost of everything going up. Guess what? It does already. You don't give people a way out of poverty and you end up with what we have now- a growing gap between rich and poor, and a shrinking middle class. The middle class drives our economy. Middle class people buy "stuff". When they do, that creates jobs for more middle class and makes the rich richer. Shrink the middle class and you get exactly what we have now - a stagnant economy.

 

[David]

Also massive unemployment, and double workload for those who are minimum wage workers. Some people just think me me me. Never thinking of the big picture. Hey I screwed up my life when I was younger, plus some things that were out if my control. Have left me where I'm at. I still don't want $15 hr min wage.
housing and food is expensive enough. Now at least double the price of everything. Wooooo
Good day to be an American. We can finally say you don't have to do jack and somehow you will make more than you deserve. What's next cable, internet, and smartphones for people living in govt housing.Oops to late that already happened
Also min wage jobs are also for small time to mid level dealers who want a little real income. Or people getting out of safe house work release. These jobs were not and are not meant to support families.
Now if this thread was about temporary agency's who pay workers 11 while doing the exact same work as those that make 21-35. Just so companies don't have to pay insurence and other things I wouldn't mind that. The line on GTA 5 is exactly right.

 

[Kerosene31]

Some people just think me me me.

Ironically, the people who want to keep the poor mired in poverty are thinking just that. Selfishly. I haven't worked a min wage job in decades since I was in school. However, I want people that still do to get ahead. Why? I don't know what any of you do for a living, but bet it is providing a good or service to people. Well, what if more people were able to buy that good or service? That would be a good thing, not a bad one.

It is simple economics, but people only look at it from the supply side. What if the demand for everything suddenly went up? We'd get more higher paying jobs, more people buying goods and services... MORE MONEY! That would be called economic growth. Instead we don't give the poor much chance to get out of poverty. The middle class continues to shrink, as when people fall on hard times they are stuck in the poor pit. No matter what you do, wouldn't your life improve if you had more customers?

 

[MCPO]

The inherent purpose of minimum wage is that it is the minimal amount of money required for someone to support themselves. It has been far too low for far too long.
In Ohio minimum wage is currently 7.95. No human being can reasonably support themselves at that. Even if they are financially responsible. Minimum wage has no risen proportionally to cost of living.

If Minimum wage was set where it should be it would be $20/hr

It's not the job of our government to restrict a freely operating business on what it pays its employees. Unless you believe in socialism or communism. Not all jobs are created equally. You think some little 16-year-old, who has no life experience or responsibilities in life, should make $15 an hour at Burger King? Yeah, no. Several of my college-educated friends make less than that working professional jobs.

Many jobs are not skilled or difficult enough to warrant paying a "living wage" for them. This is hardly "free" enterprise when our government is telling businesses what they can and cannot pay. A business owner should have the right to say, "I'm only going to start you at $2 an hour because I'm the employer. If you don't like that, you're welcome to find a better job." To which we find a different job, say, their competitor across the street who is offering $4. And so on. You laugh and say that no one would work for that, and probably not, which would drive that business to close and a new one to take its place, likely with a better pay scale to attract loyal workers.

Jobs pay poorly because we let them get away with it.

Jobs pay poorly because of the lousy job our government is doing in reducing the deficit, inflicting more taxes upon us and driving up the cost of living. People used to be able to live on $6 an hour.

I believe this is all just an attempt by our government to further weaken the middle class in this country. Socialism and communism don't work when there is a middle class, so I know Obama is thrilled with this. Spreading the wealth is what he likes to call it. By raising the minimum wage, even a $30k salary (roughly your $15 mininum wage) will not be enough to live on in a few years, as the prices on EVERYTHING will skyrocket as the impact is felt. Other companies who are employing more skilled labor will be forced to decide if they can up the ante, many of which won't be able to due to the economy, and there you go -- a larger number of people under the poverty line dependent on the government for their livelihood. You mentioned that in 2008, the poverty line was at $17,333. Do you honestly think that number will stay static in two years, with the inflation we'll undoubtedly see?

This minimum wage thing DOESN'T work.

 

[David]

if a guy owns a restaurant that serves noodles. It takes $12 for a person to make the noodles, but a machine out there does it for $14. Minimum wage increases to $15 all the noodle makers are out if business.
Have you looked at a McDonalds lately. All they do is add toppings flip the burgers and press a button to fill the ice and pour the drink. That's doesn't deserve $15 hr. If this does happen nation wide you better believe. A whole lot of people will be out of work.

 

[Videodrome]

if a guy owns a restaurant that serves noodles. It takes $12 for a person to make the noodles, but a machine out there does it for $14. Minimum wage increases to $15 all the noodle makers are out if business.
Have you looked at a McDonalds lately. All they do is add toppings flip the burgers and press a button to fill the ice and pour the drink. That's doesn't deserve $15 hr. If this does happen nation wide you better believe. A whole lot of people will be out of work.

The outcome could be interesting. Put Fast Food out of business? That would mean the only food workers are doing more to earn their money by making a better product with better skills that deserve that pay.

Better food? Better standard of living?

It'll be like the Future Taco Bell in Demolition Man.

 

[David]

The outcome could be interesting. Put Fast Food out of business? That would mean the only food workers are doing more to earn their money by making a better product with better skills that deserve that pay.

Better food? Better standard of living?

It'll be like the Future Taco Bell in Demolition Man.

Not the business, just the most of the workers. They will have to keep some workers. A lot of people will be out of work within 3 years

 

[Intellivision]

The thing about wage increases in low paying hourly jobs vs. higher paying jobs (esp. salaried employees) is that salaried worker pay can be all over the place. If there's 10 people doing the same job I bet any money all 10 are getting different. A combination of tenure, your starting negotiated salary, annual performance etc.... Everyone's pay fluctuates differently.

Fast Foody type jobs have more set hour rates. Sure it can rise differently, but to keep things simple I bet for every 10 people flipping burgers at McD's half of them make the same amount.

That's what makes it a problem for low level jobs to get blanket increases. There's so many of them, plus the expectation is everyone goes up. Immediately, that goes against the whole work ethic/pay issue as any logical person should want higher pay for the better performers while the slackers (who are lucky enough not to get fired yet) get no pay increase or a fraction of what the better people do.

So as part of the resistance of paying people more, managers don't want to reward the lousy people.

That's the whole debate friends and myself have because some people I know support unions.

As a non-unionized office person all my life, we are all left on our own to negotiate our own pay with nobody to protect us. Our wages go up and down pending how we do. If you do great, chances are better you'll get a pay bump. You also have to have the guts to speak up too. A few months ago, everyone at work got their usual annual pay increase (typically about 2-3%), but a buddy spoke up and spoke to management wanting more since he did great (which we did as his sales kicked ass). They ended up giving him about a 10% salary bump.

It's not like everyone gets 10%, just him. He did great and he spoke to them maturely and got it.

In these unionized/low wage protests, they all want to be in the same boat, which doesn't make sense because if you are in that boat and think you do a good job, why do you want someone slacking to get the same pay bump? When that question is routinely asked to union supporters I know, they basically have no answer and just snicker giving off a "who cares" kind of answer. Like there's zero accountability of performance.

 

[David]

not union don't want to belong to a union. I understand they/ were needed. A place I temped at was so against unions they basically had one to keep them out. Workers got paid way to much for the job that they did. If someone was fired they had workers discuss if the person deserved it. The place was unreal. Don't get me wrong I would of loved to get hired there, but this particular company really. Took care of its employees. That's the way it should be. But there work that no one else wanted to do actual labor hard work was done by temps.

man I wish there were some other people who are temps so I could start a thread on that.

 

[Intellivision]

not union don't want to belong to a union. I understand they/ were needed. A place I temped at was so against unions they basically had one to keep them out. Workers got paid way to much for the job that they did. If someone was fired they had workers discuss if the person deserved it. The place was unreal. Don't get me wrong I would of loved to get hired there, but this particular company really. Took care of its employees. That's the way it should be. But there work that no one else wanted to do actual labor hard work was done by temps.

man I wish there were some other people who are temps so I could start a thread on that.

One thing everyone should watch out for is that when going after a job, HR looks at your past.

They want to know if you have worked at non-unionized, unionized, non-profit or government jobs. Each one has it's stereotyped work ethic and expectations, with unionized and gov't workers being clock watcher, lazy, and expect double the holidays. The second 5 pm comes around, they'll drop everything and rush out the door. And unionized guys being very possessive of their job.... which doesn't even make sense because you work for an all-encompassing company.

A good example is about 10 years ago, our company was trying to hit the monthly sales and there seemed to be a backlog in the warehouse. The VP of our product dept asked us office staff to go down and see if there's anything to do down there to help orders process. it could be the crappiest most basic role, but we were all gung ho about it. Our sales, bonuses and quarterly achievement depend on getting the orders out the door so they count according to accounting principles.

However, most of the warehouse staff denied us. Though they had a backlog of crap, they didn't want any of us touching the skids. It's not like none of us have zero experience. We know how to wrap skids, and move pallets around to the shipping bay via pump dolly. We weren't even asking to use the forklifts or anything that requires a license.

We basically hung around for a bit and then returned back upstairs. A good attempt, but stonewalled by a protective union. Geez. We're office workers and we all work for the same public company, were not there to take away your warehouse/shipping job.

Not saying that is true for everyone, but that's the negative stereotype latched onto them. With so many people applying for jobs, it's rarely necessary for an employer to pick that unionized/gov't kind of worker.

That's why if you ever work in an office job (non-unionized job at a decently sized company), you'll get zero or almost no people from the government, non-profit, or had some kind of unionized job in their past. The warehouse staff may be different as many can be unionized while the white collar workers aren't.

 

[MCPO]

So, apparently a young, skilled graphic designer salaried at $25k fresh out of college is not worth as much as a 17-year-old front line worker in a Seattle McD's, now clearing $30k a year, whose primary job is to say, "Hi, may I take your order?"

Vhat a Country!

People worry about the cost of everything going up. Guess what? It does already.

And a $7/hr increase in the minimum wage won't make costs go up even more? LOL. Current $15 jobs, maybe they go up to $22/hr, maybe not, but I'm not sure where the money comes from. Ben Bernanke's butt, maybe? This does not end well.

You don't give people a way out of poverty and you end up with what we have now- a growing gap between rich and poor, and a shrinking middle class. The middle class drives our economy. Middle class people buy "stuff". When they do, that creates jobs for more middle class and makes the rich richer. Shrink the middle class and you get exactly what we have now - a stagnant economy.

A flawed statement here. "A growing gap between rich and poor" would mean there's a larger number in that gap -- i.e. the middle class. So, not a "shrinking middle class." Sadly, I agree with you -- the middle class is shrinking, but it has nothing to do with a low minimum wage.

You can't get rid of the lower class, even by paying them more than a job is worth. By "spreading the wealth," as communism teaches, all you eventually accomplish is bringing the middle class down below (not lifting the poor above) the poverty level. To stay afloat, fast food businesses for example are going to have to charge more for their services ($10 Big Mac, anyone?) and/or reduce their working staff by nearly half to offset the increase in payroll. You make it seem as if there is an infinite amount of wealth out there. I know, let's just print more money. Not a good idea. I'd point anyone to go read up on the Weimar Republic.

 

[Intellivision]

You can't get rid of the lower class, even by paying them more than a job is worth. By "spreading the wealth," as communism teaches, all you eventually accomplish is bringing the middle class down below (not lifting the poor above) the poverty level. To stay afloat, fast food businesses for example are going to have to charge more for their services ($10 Big Mac, anyone?) and/or reduce their working staff by nearly half to offset the increase in payroll. You make it seem as if there is an infinite amount of wealth out there. I know, let's just print more money. Not a good idea. I'd point anyone to go read up on the Weimar Republic.

Well said.

One important thing about all these wage increase protests is that companies like Walmart and McDonalds are the scapegoats. However, they are the biggest and probably could withstand a labour wage hit.

But for some reason, the protesters never want to bring up the smaller businesses or mom and pop shops at the bottom of the pecking order who will have a much tougher time absorbing costs, which going by the facts at hand is pretty much doubling wages from the $7-8/hr minimum wage in US states to $15/hr. Doubling!

 

[TDbank24]

This might sound like sour grapes but they should give everyone a big check who's ever worked for s*** pay in their life. Minimum wage should have gone up a long time ago. $15 might be a bit much but come on. They wait this long and double it?

 

[sharkboy1200]

I love how people bringing up ma and pa shops as if they haven't been taking a beating on the other side of the fence. If anything, we'll see more equality in prices and then it'll be more about where you feel comfortable shopping. This is a fantastic opportunity to grab business from the Walmart's and Best Buy's of the world way I see it. If things get too crazy with $15, then guess what, it'll be adjusted. Nothing apocalyptic is gonna take place just because your mad about somebody making more money flipping burgers. People have been readjusting their lives ever since the mortgage industry took a huge hit. It's all about finding a balance that works well enough where people are working and spending money.

 

[Kerosene31]

You can't get rid of the lower class, even by paying them more than a job is worth. By "spreading the wealth," as communism teaches, all you eventually accomplish is bringing the middle class down below (not lifting the poor above) the poverty level. To stay afloat, fast food businesses for example are going to have to charge more for their services ($10 Big Mac, anyone?) and/or reduce their working staff by nearly half to offset the increase in payroll. You make it seem as if there is an infinite amount of wealth out there. I know, let's just print more money. Not a good idea. I'd point anyone to go read up on the Weimar Republic.

I don't want to get rid of the lower class, just give them more of a chance to advance (for those that want to work for it). Doubling minimum wage is too extreme, but I can't believe how little it has gone up. I worked a min wage job 20+ years ago when I was in school and I think the wage was $6.25 or so. It has only gone up like $1 in all that time? It certainly can be raised a dollar or two without destroying the economy.

This is also why we have so many people on unemployment/welfare. Why bother to work your butt off to scrape by when you can just sit home and do nothing and collect unemployment? On that note, this is why welfare should become work-fare. Give help to those who work 40+ hours a week.

Also, this isn't just "printing money". The extra money that people get doesn't disappear, it goes right back into the economy, probably a lot of it to the WalMarts and McDonalds of the world.

 

[Zer0beaT]

I would love to have someone explain to me how someone can live off $7.25/hour. That's $290/week... before taxes. Take out taxes, gas money to travel to/from job, rent, food... LOL. Good luck. I know we can't just raise it without impacting the economy, but damn. I think 25 years ago I made $6/hour. Today, $7.25 won't even get you a fast food combo meal.

Dude, I know!

I made a rant earlier about how this min. wage increase is gonna f*** everything up, yet I do support it. The problem is that there needs to be something on the top too, like with sports leagues and their cap floor and cap roof. People working crappy jobs (that someone has to do) will finally have the ability to treat themselves here and there, maybe even save a bit of money and try to get ahead like go take a course or whatever. But the wage increase won't give an advantage to the poorest for long, they'll soon be living pay cheque to pay cheque again. That's the part that sucks.

I honestly don't know how say a place like NYC, with their rent rates can actually function because even in the most crazy expensive parts of the city they need minimum wage workers to make their society function. Where do those people live? How do they get by on $400 a week? They take transit in from the ghettos? I don't know, it's so messed up to think about. Honestly, families that can make it happen on minimum wage deserve serious respect, that's discipline and those are maybe the people who will benefit for the short term and and not go on spending sprees and use that money to get them to a better place in life.

 

[MCPO]

...so many people on unemployment/welfare. Why bother to work your butt off to scrape by when you can just sit home and do nothing and collect unemployment? On that note, this is why welfare should become work-fare. Give help to those who work 40+ hours a week.

Don't even get me started on the welfare system in this country. LOL.

 

[morfeeis]

Quoted right out of the GOP handbook. Blame "big gov't and immigrants". Manufacturing jobs left because companies moved them all to China where people will work for pennies. It has nothing to do with government regulations, just simple supply and demand. Go around and look at anything and tell me how many things say Made in China. Manufacturing jobs aren't coming back. That's a lie politicians tell us to get elected.

I also never said the job should support a family. The idea that minimum wage jobs are only held by teenagers is yet another myth. Go into any store or restaurant and you'll see tons of people working there who are not teenagers. Teenagers move out of these jobs because they have parents to live with and help support them. Many older people end up in these jobs for various reasons, and for them it becomes a hole they can't climb out of. How are you supposed to get education or job training or even afford a suit for the interview when you have no money?

People worry about the cost of everything going up. Guess what? It does already. You don't give people a way out of poverty and you end up with what we have now- a growing gap between rich and poor, and a shrinking middle class. The middle class drives our economy. Middle class people buy "stuff". When they do, that creates jobs for more middle class and makes the rich richer. Shrink the middle class and you get exactly what we have now - a stagnant economy.

Perhaps surprisingly, not very many people earn minimum wage, and they make up a smaller share of the workforce than they used to. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, last year 1.566 million hourly workers earned the federal minimum of $7.25 an hour; nearly two million more earned less than that because they fell under one of several exemptions (tipped employees, full-time students, certain disabled workers and others), for a total of 3.55 million hourly workers at or below the federal minimum.

That group represents 4.7% of the nation’s 75.3 million hourly-paid workers and 2.8% of all workers. In 1979, when the BLS began regularly studying minimum-wage workers, they represented 13.4% of hourly workers and 7.9% of all wage and salary workers. (Bear in mind that the 3.55 million figure doesn’t include salaried workers. But BLS says relatively few salaried workers are paid at what would translate into below-minimum hourly rates. Also, 19 states besides the District have minimum wages higher than the federal standard; people who’d be minimum-wage workers in those states aren’t included in the 3.55 million total.)

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2013/07/19/who-makes-minimum-wage/

 

[Intellivision]

Good snippets morfeeis.

The thing about wages is that it really comes down to a few principles and which one you feel wages should be set....

1. Supply and demand. 100% completely market driven wages. If things get that bad, employers can offer 1 penny per hour and see how that goes
2. Government sets it for everyone completely.... like some kind of hard ass communism way
3. Government sets a minimum and lets loose from there
4. Based on skills. Everyone's idea of skill set if different, but as a whole should be pretty directional. I think most people would put burger flippers and janitors near the bottom, while surgeons, dentists and people who can design bridges as very skilled and near the top

If you choose 2 or 3, it complicates things as what is the right amounts set by government? Just about every western country is #3.

For me, I'd rather have #1. People get this notion that if there's no govt control every employer out there would be cheap and offer everyone crap. Not true at all. That's why so few people actually work at the minimum wage, where the ones working at that role are typically low skilled jobs where's there's tons of replaceable workers. Companies are willing to pay more attract talent and you can't do that by offering $10/hr for a skilled job. There's always more people looking for jobs than out there, hence why every rich country has an unemployment rate typically somewhere between 3-10%.

Though there's a govt minimum, supply and demand really make up people's salaries. It's not even based on skills. Many janitors and garbage collectors make about $20-25/hr. Some of these scuzzy roles get decent wage because they don't want people leaving. Paying for retention. I remember reading that Tim Hortons was so hurting for employees to cover Alberta, they were offering restaurant staff about $20/hr because some locations were booming but not enough people to fill the roles. The role is no different than from a location here, but heck supply and demand. It was probably some small town with lots of oil projects around and the area doesn't have enough low skilled fast food workers to cover all the businesses in the area, so they had to hike up the wage to attract some people in the area from other low paying jobs.