Yeah I mean a legal definition as opposed to a dictionary one. I was listening to a discussion about it and a huge challenge seemed to hang around that you are guaranteed something, just not what you want, and therefore it can’t be a game of chance. Or something like that.
Lootbox Backlash
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Yeah I mean a legal definition as opposed to a dictionary one. I was listening to a discussion about it and a huge challenge seemed to hang around that you are guaranteed something, just not what you want, and therefore it can’t be a game of chance. Or something like that.
Gambling has a chance to win or lose, which is why loot boxes aren't really gambling.
Companies are very careful not to allow in game trading between players, so essentially the "loot" has zero real world value. That cool Overwatch skin may be something you "want" but it has no real value and you can't sell it.
What loot boxes are is addictive to some people. Kind of the same way someone constantly losing at a casino keeps playing to "win it back". loot boxes encourage people to trickle in their money. Loot boxes have that same "just one more dollar" pull to them. There's people who spend $100s on these things.
Companies are very careful not to allow in game trading between players, so essentially the "loot" has zero real world value. That cool Overwatch skin may be something you "want" but it has no real value and you can't sell it.
What loot boxes are is addictive to some people. Kind of the same way someone constantly losing at a casino keeps playing to "win it back". loot boxes encourage people to trickle in their money. Loot boxes have that same "just one more dollar" pull to them. There's people who spend $100s on these things.
Never mind the hundreds, there are people who spends thousands and even tens of thousands. In one of the mass effect threads on Reddit some guy dropped a thousand dollars on packs just so he could calculate percentages. He didn’t even want a particular item, he just wanted a look at the odds. I wish I had that kind of disposable income.
And those are the idiots who get people to keep pushing these things. These people are usually streaming or whatever and making revenue off that. The company basically sees free money piling in through microtransactions so it shouldn't shock people when they push them harder.
The gamers who buy tons of these things are just as much to blame as the companies making them.
There's always these people too who seem to have infinite time and money to waste on video games. I'd love to know their secret.
Worth a bump for this story on a kid who spent $10,000+.
Long story short, he got hooked in with pay to win mobile games, then that sort of led to problems even with cosmetics down the line.
https://kotaku.com/meet-the-19-year...tter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=2017-11-30
Long story short, he got hooked in with pay to win mobile games, then that sort of led to problems even with cosmetics down the line.
https://kotaku.com/meet-the-19-year...tter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=2017-11-30
https://www.rollingstone.com/glixel...dress-battlefront-ii-loot-via-ratings-w512718
The Hawaii legislators that are looking into the lootboxes are both avid gamers. Its interesting because they saw the issue themselves and not something brought it up to them.They prefer if the industry polices itself and because these legislators are clearly informed I don't think its something the industry can afford to hope will just go away.
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That’s where Quinlan, who says he grew up gaming and spends his free time playing video games, first spotted the issue.
“Reddit. It’s the front page of the Internet right?” Quinlan says when I ask him where he first heard about the issues in the game. “I was on Reddit one morning, and every single post on the front page was about Battlefront. I realized just how bad it has gotten. We’ve been on this path for 15 years with day-one DLC, subscription passes, pay-to-win. We as consumers kept accepting that, kept buying those games. Now we’re at a place where we need to consider, do we need to legislate? Does the ESRB have to consider a new rating that could deal with gambling and addictive mechanics?”
Quinlan said that fellow state legislator Chris Lee, who also has long played video games, also came across the issue on Reddit and contacted Quinlan to discuss what they should and could do.
“Full credit to Representative Chris Lee,” he says. “It didn’t register that we could make a difference.”
The two discussed their plan of attack and then released a video-taped press conference a bit more than a week ago to discuss their concerns about the game and how it might impact children. In particular, the concern that the game’s loot boxes were essentially a form of dressed up gambling.
"
The Hawaii legislators that are looking into the lootboxes are both avid gamers. Its interesting because they saw the issue themselves and not something brought it up to them.They prefer if the industry polices itself and because these legislators are clearly informed I don't think its something the industry can afford to hope will just go away.
"
That’s where Quinlan, who says he grew up gaming and spends his free time playing video games, first spotted the issue.
“Reddit. It’s the front page of the Internet right?” Quinlan says when I ask him where he first heard about the issues in the game. “I was on Reddit one morning, and every single post on the front page was about Battlefront. I realized just how bad it has gotten. We’ve been on this path for 15 years with day-one DLC, subscription passes, pay-to-win. We as consumers kept accepting that, kept buying those games. Now we’re at a place where we need to consider, do we need to legislate? Does the ESRB have to consider a new rating that could deal with gambling and addictive mechanics?”
Quinlan said that fellow state legislator Chris Lee, who also has long played video games, also came across the issue on Reddit and contacted Quinlan to discuss what they should and could do.
“Full credit to Representative Chris Lee,” he says. “It didn’t register that we could make a difference.”
The two discussed their plan of attack and then released a video-taped press conference a bit more than a week ago to discuss their concerns about the game and how it might impact children. In particular, the concern that the game’s loot boxes were essentially a form of dressed up gambling.
"
Edge magazine:
"Star Wars Battlefront 2: Score = 4. "The worst implementation of a loot system we've ever seen in a full-price game... the most miserly structure of the grubbiest of free-to-play games, plastered cynically over a full-priced product"
Ouch. Also,
"Need for Speed Payback: Score = 4 "An open world that offers nothing but uneventful journeys between missions; draconian progression doled out loot box by loot box."
I'm glad EA is getting backlash from some reviewers. It won't stop them, of course -- who cares about backlash when there is lots of money to be made. But it seems clear to me that this hunger for loot (boxes) is affecting the quality of games. Not at all surprising.
"Star Wars Battlefront 2: Score = 4. "The worst implementation of a loot system we've ever seen in a full-price game... the most miserly structure of the grubbiest of free-to-play games, plastered cynically over a full-priced product"
Ouch. Also,
"Need for Speed Payback: Score = 4 "An open world that offers nothing but uneventful journeys between missions; draconian progression doled out loot box by loot box."
I'm glad EA is getting backlash from some reviewers. It won't stop them, of course -- who cares about backlash when there is lots of money to be made. But it seems clear to me that this hunger for loot (boxes) is affecting the quality of games. Not at all surprising.
I really dont understand the appeal of loot boxes. They bore me.
Does anyone here actually enjoy them?
Does anyone here actually enjoy them?
Yep. I don't buy anything if it's random. There are people who like that unknown quantity bit, and I don't think they shouldn't be allowed to do it. It's definitely not for me. I just don't buy the crap. It IS nice to see people actually voting with their wallets to some extent. That is really the correct way to fix the problem. Not some ridiculous oversight committee.
People advocating for their own de-powerment always makes me shake my head (and some unaccountable, unknown group of "watchdogs" is not empowerment). People need to realize that they don't have to buy something (even if the really want it) if it is doing what they don't want to see more of.
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I enjoy getting them for free, as many games let you earn them over time. Loot boxes add a bit to Overwatch and Destiny 2.
With the latest D2 expansion, you get one with every level you gain so you basically get 5 free loot boxes just playing the campaign. I would never play the game for loot boxes alone, but if it adds something tiny to a game I already enjoy - great?
I don't get the "pure evil" standpoint when they are only cosmetic. There is an entire genre of "loot" games (Diablo, Destiny, etc) where the game is based entirely on getting loot. The idea that we play games to unlock things isn't some new and evil thing.
Yeah, unlocking stuff is an old concept. The only time it sucks is when it's clearly aimed to give people who buy DLC a noticeable advantage that can't be accomplished just through playing the game.
Well that's why I think it is an important point to make. People are entitled to their opinions, but often facts get muddled and people direct rage at one game to the entire concept.
Also, obviously some people even like paid loot boxes, because obviously people are buying them. We don't have numbers, but clearly they sell very well which is why we are seeing them in almost every game.
Anger directed at something specific can have a great benefit to us gamers. Anger at everything will just get ignored for what it is.
You know, I find it confusing when you refer to how "people" are angry and rageful, and yet you are directing your comments at people who are neither. You sound like you're advising (lecturing?) people on how they should handle their anger, and yet no one here is angry (as far as I can tell). You seem to be talking to people who are not here. It makes it confusing, because I'm continually wondering who you are talking to. Whoever they are, they aren't here.
Anyhow, yes, I agree, some people do like paid loot boxes. That's the person I was describing.
Angry gamers are a thing, both here and other places. Anger is a bad word to describe it. Maybe "saltiness"? Everywhere you go any game discussion turns into microtransaction whining (reddit mostly, which has a major flaw with their upvoting system).
It is very passive aggressive to ask something like "does anyone like them???". It is not meant as a question but as a veiled knock at anyone who differs from the hive mind.
To me video games are supposed to be fun, yet people make them very much not fun. Maybe I should spend less time voicing my opinion, because based on most of the responses I get that would make people less unhappy.
I’ve bought the odd one here and there over years. Usually when I’m drunk
Myself and Menace play FIFA with a guy who literally spends hundreds, if not thousands, on Ultimate team. And did the same for world of tanks. I just don’t understand it at all.
I know there are angry gamers out there, but what I'm saying is, they aren't here (as far as I can tell). I just find it confusing when people talk about a subset of gamers on other forums, when their criticisms don't apply to the people actually participating in the discussion. It's like, "Who are you talking to/about?"
Thousands?! Damn.
Yep. Over the years and different iterations of the game it’s easily into the thousands.
lol.
I am open for suggestions for a better title, btw. I needed to change it from the original (which was about Open Critic), and that's the best I could come up with.
Surprised the discussion has lasted this long. It certainly hasn't been the "rage of the week" that others had characterized it as. It's more like annoyance of the year. Lots of jokes about it at the Game Awards, apparently...
Fifa Ultimate Team is the absolute worst pay to win scheme (the same model is on other sports games too).
Want to compete? You better either play a ton and be really good (in which case you'll earn lots of stuff) or you better pay up.
I tried Ultimate Team in NHL and I simply couldn't compete without spending additional money. They literally give you a team of scrubs and you're expected to compete against teams loaded with the best superstars in the sport.
I'm surprised more people aren't up in arms about it as it is undoubtedly pay to win. I know NHL is a niche game but Fifa is huge.
Want to compete? You better either play a ton and be really good (in which case you'll earn lots of stuff) or you better pay up.
I tried Ultimate Team in NHL and I simply couldn't compete without spending additional money. They literally give you a team of scrubs and you're expected to compete against teams loaded with the best superstars in the sport.
I'm surprised more people aren't up in arms about it as it is undoubtedly pay to win. I know NHL is a niche game but Fifa is huge.
The big thing I notice is that it is getting tough to get information about actual games... Maybe it is just magnified in the Destiny community right now. There's a main reddit about Destiny that is completely overrun with negativity. So, they made another sub that's supposed to be more "let's talk about the game" but that one is getting overrun too. Want to talk about guns that are good in the game? Oh sorry, but people are parroting Polygon's latest "journalistic" piece.
Well on FIFA UT I'm not so sure. I've seen people with squads that cost them tons of money being beat with squads that were built for free. Now that is some seriously funny rage you get to witness. Having a good team doesn't make you a good player. I don't know if Hockey is the same as I don't play it,
In that case I would bet that the people who spend money in the game also are terrible at it. You could buy me a Fifa team and I would get crushed. However two players who are relatively even, the big advantage goes to the one with the better roster.
There's a huge difference between having a guy like Messi as a striker vs some 70 rated player.
No, don't agree at all. I'm an average player at best and i don't spend money on UT. I've come the likes of Messi and such playing other players and my regular 80 rated defenders have no issue with it. Good chemisty counts for alot. The of course you get the flip side where a good player as a good character like Messi, and thats all sorts of rape waiting to happen.
I apologise that it came across that way. I am actually very new to loot boxes as the only game I have ever played with them in is Battlefield 1 (and I am only level 14 on there).
I asked my question in that way because I honestly didnt expect anyone here to say that they do like them. And, although I did read your post, I still am unsure as to what appeals to you about lootboxes. Is it the randomness of them that you like?
Sorry if any of this is coming across as aggressive or something but I honestly dont understand lootboxes. I am very out of the loop it seems....
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Oh, ok. This thread has been all about paid loot boxes, microtransactions, pay-to-win schemes, etc. I just assumed you were talking from that perspective.
I don't see why anyone would have an issue with free lootboxes, or free anything. They're just little rewards you earn by playing the game. As sharkboy said, it's basically just a form of unlockable content, and that's been around forever.