Yeah there is no way Han is coming back ... not only did he get stabbed through the heart and fell into a chasm, but then the entire planet disintegrated and turned into a star. Don't think he can come back from that one.
***SPOILERS*** Star Wars Episode VII ***SPOILERS***
- Thread starter Plainview
- Start date
Lol. Now I keep thinking it would have been better of Solo bought out the Cantina and he ran the Falcon as a bootlegger on the side.
Hilarious.Lol. Now I keep thinking it would have been better of Solo bought out the Cantina and he ran the Falcon as a bootlegger on the side.
My only problem with that is Ren still having more experience with a lightsaber. He's been training for years, perhaps even as far back as a child. Not to mention Rey would have no experience with single handed combat, since she only showed experience with scavengers and a staff. Experience has always been a major factor in lightsaber duels. Young Anakin usually got beat down in 1v1 moments, same for Luke, but with training, they became more skilled and capable of holding their own. It's a common theme in both trilogies and Rey just ends up completely owning Ren. Even injured, Ren should have at least been able to avoid near death with his force powers alone.
So he went from toying with an incompetent janitor and this girl whose never even seen a lightsaber before to losing outright. And the lowly janitor who could barely hold a blaster was trained in sword combat offscreen somewhere before all of this. Ren, master of freezing blaster charges, gets trumped by someone who discovered the Force not ten minutes before the dueling. There is seriously no excuse for either of them having a competent match with Ren even with the injury. Star Wars is supposed be a little outlandish but never to this extent.
ST are taken as children now and trained all their life for ...COMBAT so yes its not hard to believe he has had hand to hand combat training but again he has 2 fights and loses both and Ren is badly injured for the last two fights.
Ray is most likely a Skywalker and do you remember the stuff Luke could do despite only having about 10 minutes force training in a new hope? She had also been shown to be able to take care of her self at the start of the movie staff or other weapon she knows how to fight.
Ren doesn't lose the fight.
But This is way to much 'debate' for a film like SW which is always going to bend the 'rules'
Ren lost the fight. Face down in the snow. Unable to even crawl. What part of that isn't lost?
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He was already pretty hurt. Had he not been hurt and at full strength, he would have won the fight.
Something you guys are missing...the entire point behind showing Chewie firing the bow earlier in the movie was to show how incredibly OP it was. Ren was hit with that incredibly OP weapon. Let's not forget that.
Yeah, I get that. It's not Ren losing that is the issue. It's how he lost. Rey touches a lightsaber for the very first time in her whole life and wields it perfectly fine. And then she was still losing a losing battle, which is how it should be, but then miraculously "meditates with the Force" while being forced off the edge of the world and makes a complete turnaround on him. And this powerful meditation of her is literally ten minutes after she had discovered the Force. I understand Jedi and Sith are supposed to be demigods, but it gets very boring when you fill all your plot holes with "the Force is strong with this one." Newbie Jedi should should have fought like newbie Jedi instead of going Katniss all over his mojo.
But the force is strong in her, not to mention that she was already a skilled fighter, as demonstrated earlier in the movie when she took on a few thugs and needed no help from others. Luke wasn't particulaly strong in the force in the sense that he didn't feel the force initially and had doubts of his own ability, as a weak willed farmboy, and needed just a little incomplete training and held his own twice against vader, a well trained sith. He even destroyed the deathstar...with NO training. Rey on the other hand, is being "awakened".
You guys are missing a lot of the points behind this movie. This isn't your 1977 Luke skywalker that needing training. This is a very strong Jedi that is being "awakened". She even heard the voices of Obie and yoda.
Stop looking at this movie as just a continuation of George's Star Wars. Remember that things are being changed a bit for his new vision. Just enjoy the ride.
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No, Luke was very strong with the Force. The difference is that he didn't magically become a master Jedi the moment he touched a lightsaber. And no, Luke never held his own against his first battle with Vader. He trained for those three years only to be toyed with by Vader who one-handing the entire fight, casually refused to deliver the finishing blow to his neck, and then sliced off his hand when it was all said and done. It was a far more convincing scene than what J.J. Abram cooked up.
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He was strong, but there's different levels of force strength. Star killer brought down a star destroyer.
Luke, without training, destroyed the Death Star. Darth vader toyed with him, but darth was a well trained sith, and had been in more battles than Luke could dream of, and Luke still bested him with little training in return of the Jedi.
Difference with Rey, is that the force was awakened in her, as oppossed to needing to be worked out of luke.
She's going to be stronger than Luke. Obie and yoda spoke to her, without knowing her.
Her flashes are telling us there is more to her being a Jedi than Luke.
Lol, no. The emprorer, is much older, and look at how powerful he was. Look at how powerful yoda was, despite his age.
The problem now, is that people want to put this story in George Lucas's little box, and don't want to think outside of the box. The title is the force awakens for a reason. Rey is going to be very powerful.
Nah man. Emperor used magic and electricity. Darth just used brute force and the force.
Luke was a talented pilot before going out in an X-Wing. He used to race Beggar's Canyon all the time. And the Death Star had a major design flaw that allowed for a single pilot to be capable of destroying it. No plot holes there. That's all pretty well-grounded and well-explained. Unlike recent movie which seemed fit to fill all oh the plot holes with "the Force is strong with this one."
And in the Return of the Jedi, old man Vader literally wanted to die. It's the way of the Sith for the apprentice to kill the master. Not thatVader was all that powerful anyways. Old and out of practice. In any regard, the choreographed fight was much more convincing and a lot more real.
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Wrong. A trained pilot would have needed the targeting system. That was made clear when they were concerned that he turned it off. He used the force to make the shot...not some farm boy desert piloting skills. He even had Obie get into his head at that memory to "use the force".
And no...vader did not "want to die", what a load of shat. Vader was, and still is (look it up) one of the strongest force users to exist. One of the most powerful ones to exist was also yoda (look that up as well), and yoda and Obie went into hiding. That alone tells you how powerful darth vader and Palpatine were.
Luke, had little training, and left yoda while his training was incomplete. Further more, Luke's training with yoda, was only a few weeks. He was undesciplined, whiney, and soft.
Rey on the other hand, had years, since child hood, of hard living, was tough, hard and determined. Add to that, the fact that she had the force awakened in her, not coaxed out of her like Luke. Her strength in the force was demonstrated earlier when she used her mind control, so she already was feeling the force in her.
Add to all that...this is JJ's vision. Stop trying to box Star Wars in using George's vision.
Just suspend belief, and enjoy the movie. I can give you many plot holes for the originals...but back then, we suspended belief and enjoyed them as well.
Luke used the Force to make one simple shot at the end of his treacherous ride through the trenches of the Death Star. How is that one thing comparative to Episode 7's constant reliance on the Force to fill plot holes?
And yes, Vader wanted Luke to end his life. It's the way of the Sith. Vader definitely preferred that over killing his own son.
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Lol, one simple shot. That "simple" shot was the whole point behind the mission, and only a force user could do it without a targeting system.
And no, vader did not want to die, again, crock of shat. It wasnt until the emprorer was laying the smack down on Luke that he sacrificed himself.
Rey felt the force several times in the movie.
Want plot holes? How Luke became so strong with practically no training, when Jedis typically get training from childhood? Leis being Luke's sister? Lol, we know that was added years later as part of story. How did Boba fett, a feared and hardened bounty hunter die in a such a laughable and sloppy manner? How did darth vader, a black hearted killer, suddenly, at the last minute, find good in his heart (come on now, he killed children before he was even totally evil)? And on and on. So many plot holes.
Again, you're boxing in Rey into your vision of a Jedi based on what you know from old Star Wars movies, and ignoring that this is a new vision of a Star Wars movie. Hell, for all we know, she was trained and had her mind wiped. She had a vision where she saw kylo and the nights of Ren. She must have seen that before. You don't even know what answers we'll get in later movies. You're already determining what should and should not be, based on how YOU believe a force user should exhibit their power. The force is felt. The same way Luke had little training to use it based on what he feels, same with her.
I thought it was obvious that Darth Vader saved Luke because he was his son. And that Vader was obviously not as evil as he once was because the murdering of Jedi children happened over 50 odd years ago back when he was nothing but desperate to save the love of his life. I don't see the plot holes.
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No, it's a thin plot.
As for the children, it wasn't 50 years earlier...that would have made Luke...about 50 years old, lol.
Face it, there's many plot holes. Like how Obie didn't know R2. Again, I can go on.
Jedis don't feel the force the same way, stop trying to limit Rey based on what you know of Luke. Again, this isn't George's Star Wars.
A plot hole is something that can't be explained logically. Saving your son is very logical. No plot hole there.