The RROD and the Xbox 360...

X

XBoxNeo

Well-Known Member
BANNED!
Sep 12, 2013
801
208
224
One of the common themes in the vile venom filled threads on other forums has to do with the RROD problem that the Xbox 360 had at the start of the generation. I really don't get why this is a point of hate. I had 4 XBox 360's before the problem was solved. However each and every time I encountered a problem, Microsoft fixed it for free, and gave me swag in the form of free XBLA or free games.

This experience, and the extent that Microsoft went to make it right is the source of my Xbox fandom. Each and every time I called 800-4-my-xbox it was painless and quick. Each and every time Microsoft re-compensated me without question.

Why is this a source of such rage and anger for other people?
 
  • Like
Reactions: David
I went through 4 RRODs, too. Fortunately, each time, my console was replaced, free of charge. However, it was not free of hassle, because I had to go through the trouble of unhooking it, boxing it up, and then waiting around a couple of weeks until I got a new one. Four times.

That does tend to erode your confidence in a company a bit -- being given a crappy product, then another crappy product to replace it, then another crappy product to replace that, etc.. At a certain point, it became laughable.

I never got to the point of hate. It did make me wonder a little about MS's team, to have missed a problem this big, and then to still be shipping out crappy replacements that didn't work any better than the originals. They would've lost me (and a lot of others, I suspect) as customers, had they not stepped up and paid for everything, to the tune of about a billion dollars. I thought that was a good move on their part.

Some people didn't have the warranty coverage, and so they were screwed. Maybe they ended up feeling really burned. I wouldn't blame them too much.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MilkManX and XBoxNeo
XBoxNeo said:
One of the common themes in the vile venom filled threads on other forums has to do with the RROD problem that the Xbox 360 had at the start of the generation. I really don't get why this is a point of hate. I had 4 XBox 360's before the problem was solved. However each and every time I encountered a problem, Microsoft fixed it for free, and gave me swag in the form of free XBLA or free games.

This experience, and the extent that Microsoft went to make it right is the source of my Xbox fandom. Each and every time I called 800-4-my-xbox it was painless and quick. Each and every time Microsoft re-compensated me without question.

Why is this a source of such rage and anger for other people?
Click to expand...

Hey man, I love Xbox and I'm a big fan.

But......that was a serious fail on their part. A massive blunder and I can't believe how well they continued to do.

Yes, they fixed them for free, but it was a big hassle. My launch 360 bit the dust 3 1/2 years after I got it, which was outside their extension warranty of 3 years, yet they still fixed it for free and it only took about a week and a half. That's awesome of them, but not awesome that it was happening.

And they did all that because they HAD to. You can not have that type of thing happen and NOT get a massive civil suit. They probably crunched the numbers and did the car company thing where they go "ok, will it cost us more in suits and brand tarnishing vs. bending over and taking a huge monetary hit up the ass to smooth this over and fix these things for free?"

They had to fix them. That doesn't mean they didn't f*** up royally with the design or whoever they hired to QA the thing etc.

Hopefully (and really, I'm sure they went overboard this time! RROD cost them $3 billion I think) this can't possibly happen to the X1.

Now the PS4? It's smaller and apparently packing way more power, has an internal PSU.......cross your fingers eh?
 
  • Like
Reactions: XBoxNeo
I have had 2 360's and neither had RROD. I really do not see how so many had a problem far beyond the experience I had.
 
Oh brother here we go again. If people ever actually bothered to speak to people who fixed them, they would have told you what was really behind the errors with the consoles last gen.

RRODS and YLOD were both caused by lead-free solder. Not poor engineering and not evil MS corporate suits ignoring the issue and hoping it would go away.

At the time there were rising global concerns about the usage of lead based solder in consumer devices, plumbing and jewelry. Turns out the s*** is highly toxic to people working with it, and consumers who have it in the products we use in our homes, on the go and your drinking water. So a whole bunch of new laws were passed around the world that eliminated lead based solder. RoHS - Restriction of Hazardous Substances.

The problem develops as PB(lead)-free solder has a lower threshold for heat and reaches a melting point. The Xbox 360's solder would melt at the Xenos GPU's joints, causing the system to become unstable and produce the RROD. Remember the towel wrapping trick? The only thing this did was heat the solder up to a point where it would melt, the gamer then shuts the machine off and waits for a bit hoping that the GPU settled back into it's joints. As many learned, this was not a useful solution.

So when you sent your 360 to MS they they would re-solder your console WITH lead free solder and send it back to you as quickly as possible. Of course the console would heat up again and that would cause the RROD.

It was learned at some point that at least one manufacturer (responsible for 1/3rd of the 360s) was not using the higher quality lead-free solder. This is why some people to THIS DAY still have their launch XB360 with no issues, they've got the BETTER solder. MS would eventually make it mandatory to use the higher grade solder at all factories AND MS repair sites. They even went as far as to redesign the heat sink. The cost was about $1 Billion dollars and gave the 360 a permanent stigma with gamers.

The good news is that lead-free solders are actually alot better now, the alloys being used give it a higher melting point. But it's not infallible, better heat management and power usage can go a long way to ensuring the consoles have less issues this generation.
 
  • Like
Reactions: starlight777
The launch models were just too hot. You don't need to be an expert engineer to see that the things were simply running way hotter than any electronic device should.

I went through three 360s at launch, none of which lasted 12 months. Once is a minor inconvenience. Twice is a bit much. Any more than that is extreme.

The only funny thing is that none of my 360s ever got the RROD. They died in other interesting ways.
 
I only had 1 get the RROD, and like you said the experience was fine. Fixed for free and quickly.
 
GHost Box said:
Oh brother here we go again. If people ever actually bothered to speak to people who fixed them, they would have told you what was really behind the errors with the consoles last gen.

RRODS and YLOD were both caused by lead-free solder. Not poor engineering and not evil MS corporate suits ignoring the issue and hoping it would go away.

At the time there were rising global concerns about the usage of lead based solder in consumer devices, plumbing and jewelry. Turns out the s*** is highly toxic to people working with it, and consumers who have it in the products we use in our homes, on the go and your drinking water. So a whole bunch of new laws were passed around the world that eliminated lead based solder. RoHS - Restriction of Hazardous Substances.

The problem develops as PB(lead)-free solder has a lower threshold for heat and reaches a melting point. The Xbox 360's solder would melt at the Xenos GPU's joints, causing the system to become unstable and produce the RROD. Remember the towel wrapping trick? The only thing this did was heat the solder up to a point where it would melt, the gamer then shuts the machine off and waits for a bit hoping that the GPU settled back into it's joints. As many learned, this was not a useful solution.

So when you sent your 360 to MS they they would re-solder your console WITH lead free solder and send it back to you as quickly as possible. Of course the console would heat up again and that would cause the RROD.

It was learned at some point that at least one manufacturer (responsible for 1/3rd of the 360s) was not using the higher quality lead-free solder. This is why some people to THIS DAY still have their launch XB360 with no issues, they've got the BETTER solder. MS would eventually make it mandatory to use the higher grade solder at all factories AND MS repair sites. They even went as far as to redesign the heat sink. The cost was about $1 Billion dollars and gave the 360 a permanent stigma with gamers.

The good news is that lead-free solders are actually alot better now, the alloys being used give it a higher melting point. But it's not infallible, better heat management and power usage can go a long way to ensuring the consoles have less issues this generation.
Click to expand...

While I have a congenital case of the nerd, and the details of things like this are fascinating to me, as a consumer I don't really care. What I cared about was that, I had a problem, and Microsoft fixed it, over and over again until they got it right.

By contrast I had a Ford F150 back in the 90's. Man that truck, it was falling apart the day I drove it off the lot. I had to go back to the deal repeatedly. Every time they made me feel like crap for expecting them to service the piece of crap that they sold me. Lets see... The wheel blew up causing high way flip over accidents. The lug bolts where wrong and had to be fixed. The drive side mirror was glued on, and simply fell off. The wind shield wipers stopped working. The sewing in the seats was awful and the seats fell apart. These were all things that happened in either recalls or warranty work. Ford ~never~ made it east to address any of these problems.

See by contrast Microsoft dealt with the problem that made me a loyal customer. Ford did not. Which is why it confuses me that people have such intense hard feelings about the Xbox RROD. At the same time, now I drive a Toyota.

It is not that the problem was there. It was that they fixed it until they got it right. Microsoft could have handled the recall in a much worse way, for example the way Ford treated me.
 
I'm on my third 360 my first two got RROD. Yes it was nice i got them fixed/replaced for free, but it still sucked not being able to play for a few weeks.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Hammerclaw
it's one of the worst, if not the worst, consumer electronic products in terms of quality and reliability in history.

I can see why people got fed up. I went through 3 of the launch 360's, and ended up eventually just buying the elite, which I then sold to my brother after his lanch 360 rrod and I bought a 360s.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Hammerclaw
XBoxNeo said:
Why is this a source of such rage and anger for other people?
Click to expand...

Not sure if serious, but if you are and you can't see why a consumer product is expected to work from day one and should go through vigorous testing before being packaged into a box then I do not know what to say man. :(

Microsoft rushed the 360, knew it had the design flaw but yet went ahead to get the one up over Sony. Them replacing the console didn't make it right, that was incumbent upon them anyway, they're handling of the situation at first was all wrong anyway.

This is why people do not trust Microsoft, because they have proven they'll cut corners and screw you over to get the one up, even if they have to pay for it later.

All this from someone who believes the 360 is one of the best home consoles (for gaming) ever!
 
A7MAD said:
Not sure if serious, but if you are and you can't see why a consumer product is expected to work from day one and should go through vigorous testing before being packaged into a box then I do not know what to say man. :(

Microsoft rushed the 360, knew it had the design flaw but yet went ahead to get the one up over Sony. Them replacing the console didn't make it right, that was incumbent upon them anyway, they're handling of the situation at first was all wrong anyway.

This is why people do not trust Microsoft, because they have proven they'll cut corners and screw you over to get the one up, even if they have to pay for it later.

All this from someone who believes the 360 is one of the best home consoles (for gaming) ever!
Click to expand...

Was I annoyed and ticked off at the time?Y ou bet. But here a better part of a decade later my emotions on the issue have mellowed. I also feel that if there is an issue with the X1, Microsoft will do the same thing again, and make it right again.
 
If MS pull the same crap they did with the X1 as they did the 360, this time it will impact them far worse and will only upset consumers who will just lose faith in their ability to manufacture/assemble console hardware.

I do not like to believe that MS would be so arrogant or stupid to do that again any time soon, but if my X1 fails at the hardware level within the first 30 days (and I see it is occurring for others too), I'll be expressing my discontent toward them with some very colorful language. lol

As I get older I have less patience with corporations screwing me around. I had issues with Sony and one of my PS3's as well, I gave them hell, threatened to get the consumer watchdog here in Australia on them (and I had it set for real) and they caved, f*** corporations, they're all c***s.
 
  • Like
Reactions: XBoxNeo
There was also that period before they extended the warranty to 3 years where you might have been screwed if you werent willing to pay to have it fixed or buy a new one.
 
Anderson said:
I went through 4 RRODs, too. Fortunately, each time, my console was replaced, free of charge. However, it was not free of hassle, because I had to go through the trouble of unhooking it, boxing it up, and then waiting around a couple of weeks until I got a new one. Four times.

That does tend to erode your confidence in a company a bit -- being given a crappy product, then another crappy product to replace it, then another crappy product to replace that, etc.. At a certain point, it became laughable.

I never got to the point of hate. It did make me wonder a little about MS's team, to have missed a problem this big, and then to still be shipping out crappy replacements that didn't work any better than the originals. They would've lost me (and a lot of others, I suspect) as customers, had they not stepped up and paid for everything, to the tune of about a billion dollars. I thought that was a good move on their part.

Some people didn't have the warranty coverage, and so they were screwed. Maybe they ended up feeling really burned. I wouldn't blame them too much.
Click to expand...
Microsoft knew they couldn't miss any of a one year window of opportunity Sony handed them, gift-wrapped, on a silver platter. So they decided to launch and fix later. I rather doubt they anticipated how much fixing they were going to have to do. The problem wasn't solved until the launch of the first Jasper chipset units in mid '08, I still play on one of those. Six years and no problems. Went through five or six RRODS and bought three new consoles during that period until the jasper.
 
I too have a Jasper (mine is a v2) going strong. They were the best phat revision.
 
A7MAD said:
Not sure if serious, but if you are and you can't see why a consumer product is expected to work from day one and should go through vigorous testing before being packaged into a box then I do not know what to say man. :(

Microsoft rushed the 360, knew it had the design flaw but yet went ahead to get the one up over Sony. Them replacing the console didn't make it right, that was incumbent upon them anyway, they're handling of the situation at first was all wrong anyway.

This is why people do not trust Microsoft, because they have proven they'll cut corners and screw you over to get the one up, even if they have to pay for it later.

All this from someone who believes the 360 is one of the best home consoles (for gaming) ever!
Click to expand...
Dude, don't get me started with all the problems I had with my launch PS2. I had to send it in once so they could add something they left out so my network adapter I bought for it would work, so and me and my friends could play Sony games online.. When it came back, that time, the invoiced showed they'd fixed or replaced half a dozen things I didn't even realize was or could go wrong with it. Did a good job too. Still works fine. So after mid '08, after the released of the first jasper units, the 360 did, finally, lived up to the title you are disparaging. Failure rates, after that, were within acceptable industry norms.
 
A7MAD said:
2005-2008 is a while though.
Click to expand...
O-o-o-o-h yeah, especially if you have to live through all three years of it like I did. At least my experience with the PS2 prepared me for it; otherwise it would have blown my mind. I was use to Nintendo hardware, that you can find, old and battered, under a ton of garbage in a dumpster, that when plugged in, still works.
 
  • Like
Reactions: A7MAD
XBoxNeo said:
Was I annoyed and ticked off at the time?Y ou bet. But here a better part of a decade later my emotions on the issue have mellowed. I also feel that if there is an issue with the X1, Microsoft will do the same thing again, and make it right again.
Click to expand...
If anything like this happens for the X1 then it's going to be a sh1tshow for MS. I think even some of the more hardcore fanboys would even start to waiver. I know I would.
 
A7MAD said:
I too have a Jasper (mine is a v2) going strong. They were the best phat revision.
Click to expand...

My 5th console is also a jasper Elite model which has lasted me probably around 1500 hours of problem free operation. It doesn't even get slightly warm after 2 hours of use.

I had one last me a whopping 40 hours of use. :rolleyes:
 
  • Like
Reactions: A7MAD
Well im the type of person when i spend money on something i expect it to work. But it seems like the more complex things get the more things can go wrong. We are the ones that suffer while big corperations count money.
 
Pretty much everyone I knew that got a 360 had a RROD. Some got it very early before they extended the warranty but after their initial ones. Needless to say those 2 guys got PS3's and never came back to 360. It was a rushed launch without proper QC testing. Let us hope this gen was tested very well...
 
menace-uk- said:
I have had 2 360's and neither had RROD. I really do not see how so many had a problem far beyond the experience I had.
Click to expand...
I've been through 4 Xbox 360s. Two had RROD issues. One replacement was excellent and was all sorted in about two weeks. The other was awful and took nearly 3 months to sort out. After I that I just started trading in my consoles every two years to keep them in warranty
 
Their response couldn't have been much better... but when you go to work all day and can't wait to get home to play a game you are picking up after work and then get an RROD... and realize it'll be 2 weeks before you can play...

It sucks.

People buy products to be able to use them 24/7.. not randomly have to take 2 week breaks.

I lucked out.. launch 360 that never died.. even through 100's of hours of Oblivion and many many hours with games like Mass Effect and the Rainbow Six series.
 
I only ever had 1 console RROD on me, after that MS exchanged it, was a launch unit which lasted 20 months, so I was fortunate it lasted that long.

They replaced it with an Opus revision (phat) which I opened hours later after getting back and went to town with by ripping it apart and learning more about how to avoid the RROD ever again.

After that I started repairing RROD consoles on the side, making some fast bucks, so MS did help me in a way. lol

I think I got into console repairs (outside of my actual work) because of the RROD really, doubt I'd have bothered repairing PS3's and Wii's also otherwise.
 
I was never impressed with the insides of a 360. It looks cheap and shoddy. On the other hand, The insides of the original Xbox make it look like military grade hardware!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back