UnionVGF Indie Game developers (or thinking about becoming one) corner

[starseeker]

Sounds like an interesting process and a real learning curve.

It is hard, no doubt. If you have a team with the right skill set, one with game programming, a level designer, a game designer, writer, 3D modeler, 2D artist, then its easier. In a small team, it is often expected that some one will have to do more than one key development work, The game designer could be the writer as well.

I am trying to be all. LOL, so I need to learn a lot.

But I will hired help along the way, package works, buy existing asserts if need(yes you can buy royalty free 3D models just like photos), at the moment, I am pondering buying a flower packages. 180 flowers for 60 bucks or something. It will save me plenty of time to model them myself.

. Also, I try not to be ambitious & keep game area small (a house & its immediate surrounding, not unlike gone home), no CG cutscene (use instead slideshow), not even character animation (first person view with no NPC). Plot& story will be revealed by mainly clues found in the house, documents, paintings, & simple slideshow hand drawn cutscenes. There will be puzzled but nothing complicated. I have in fact post 2 of my puzzles here before.

If the game is successful, I may go full time, & maybe hire some stuff, but I do not want to get to ahead of myself.

 

[DLC]

Does Unity have its own script language? I cannot say I understand the network, but the game sound cool.

Its a top down RPG or still a platformers? Sp or MP?

Use playmaker (asset) for visual script. Now this is a bit old, have put aside this project for later on, but think gone work parts of it into the platformer game I am working on.
Have lot of ideas for it, but takes long time before I gets put them in action.
Fun working with float values as one have sow much control.

When I made this I was thinking on making an action rpg, but just became too big project, maybe something for later on, first I think I will try on a 2d platformer with rpg elements, if that becomes good I will try make something bigger.
Story for the game I have used years on putting together, even before I started with using unity, was an idea that grew and that I have many times rewritten about a world where the only god is long time dead, and in his death magic was created.

 

[starseeker]

yap, its good to start something small & manageable first.

 

[Z A C K]

These engines boggle my mind. The technology is just amazing. So are you guys telling me you've created what you have so far without any (or very little) knowledge of programming? Incredible...

 

[starseeker]

The industry are moving towards more user friendly visual programming.

Firstly, its easier for people without much experience with programming to get up to speed, & it will in general improve production speed, with or without programmers. The target is not just to allow non programmers to do development work, but to improve efficiency of game development overall.

You still need to know the logic, but the good thing with visual programming, is its easier to have an overview (even more so if you have to read codes from other people), & more error proof as you get rid of many potential syntax error common with programming languages, like forgotten the '}', ';', or misspell.

Think of visual programming as,
go to a folder, copy, then go to another folder than paste.

and traditional programming as,
Copy C:\A\doc\menu.doc D:\temp\menu.doc

which required complete syntax to be correct, that you need to know the exact syntax, & you need to know the exact place to extract info, & exact place to pass the info.

You still need programming, & very much also (depends on what type of game you made), but there will be lesser traditional game play programming tasks than before as time passes. Certain things like formula & comparison are still better done with programming, but I think in UE4, you can make a function into a node, with input & output, like you would of a function say:

float RoundTo2Decimal places (float Value)
{
//code here
}
to
Value in====>[RoundTo2DecimalPlaces]====>Value out

which you can then use to plug it into the visual programming network.

You can learn more from UE4 BluePrint here:
https://www.unrealengine.com/blog/blueprint-basics

Visual programming is still raw, but its the natural evolution for the traditional line by line programming which has not change much for over 30 years)

 

[Z A C K]

Seems very interesting and definitely makes sense. Too bad web development isn't like that

 

[Godsmack]

Woot! Just finished building a functional mini-map for my game. It shows enemy/hero locations and you can click anywhere on the map to pan the camera to that area.

 

[starseeker]

Quick comic style line & coloring test using Manga Studio (trial ver).

(As I am will use comic style cutscenes for my games, I am trying to improve on my drawing, coloring skill. )

 

[TFX]

I wish I could make games My brain is just not equipped to learn the technical skills required. I can do design and master planning, even some artwork, but I can't build anything.

 

[Z A C K]

Quick comic style line & coloring test using Manga Studio (trial ver).

(As I am will use comic style cutscenes for my games, I am trying to improve on my drawing, coloring skill. )

This is so good. I can't even stand it.

 

[Godsmack]

Quick comic style line & coloring test using Manga Studio (trial ver).

(As I am will use comic style cutscenes for my games, I am trying to improve on my drawing, coloring skill. )

Looks pretty good. Is that a freehand drawing or tracing over a photo?

Manga Studio has tons of brushes and variations. I tend to use brushes for a specific purpose. In Painter, I have probably over 20 custom brushes in a palette that I organized into groups for specific uses. Some are just subtle variations like for details vs blocking in larger shapes. I'd rather switch brushes than change settings back and forth. I'm not sure what all is possible in Manga Studio because I haven't played with it much yet and was mainly using other features, but maybe you can get some things organized.

However you work, the main thing is picking a style and being consistent.

I wish I could make games My brain is just not equipped to learn the technical skills required. I can do design and master planning, even some artwork, but I can't build anything.

This is why I got Construct 2. I am not a programmer, but I am good with game logic and design. This program allows me to build things I wouldn't even bother with in other programs. Could be worth a look.

 

[TFX]

This is why I got Construct 2. I am not a programmer, but I am good with game logic and design. This program allows me to build things I wouldn't even bother with in other programs. Could be worth a look.

Huh. Will have to try this out.

 

[starseeker]

^
There is a link to Construct 2 in the first post.

To Godsmack,
I never used painter before so I cannot comment. The line work are quick tracing over the X-men wallpaper.

You are right that I need to developed a style. I will make more sketchs & find a style that I like, & is not too labor intensive.



Anyway, a question, admittedly, I am not a avid comic reader, I do enjoy those Marvels graphical novels.

I chanced upon this https://www.comixology.com/ (actually while watching Firephone presentation), are there others good site as well. I hope to find a good graphics novel/comics that is bith fun to read, as well as inspiration for my art style.

 

[DLC]

Manga Studio does look great, just did see they have 40 % off now (digital version is called Clip Studio Paint).
Think I may buy this, as it also says that works great together with photoshop and have support for PSD files and .obj files for 3d.

 

[starseeker]

Manga Studio does look great, just did see they have 40 % off now (digital version is called Clip Studio Paint).
Think I may buy this, as it also says that works great together with photoshop and have support for PSD files and .obj files for 3d.

You can always try out the trail version. The big plus point is the price.

 

[starseeker]

Interface design (mock up only). I am wondering if its too clustered. I wanted a very quick way for gamer to see the main controls without going to another screen. You get to his menu via either the start button (on 360 controller) .

With the mouse control, you should be able to directly click on the text 'Open Map' (or hit M) & open the map from here, if gamer do not want to remember the hotkeys. Another option is click 'F10, or Tab' to open the game menu, which contain game info including map.

With controller, the most used menu/features have a direct button, others, you can assess via 'back button'.

Events Timeline:
The game will take place in 'the house', & its immediate surroundings, but the information gather within the game spin almost 600 years, so its essential to have a event timeline to keep track of the information, & make out the story of the game.
Events will be updated whenever you have gather a clue, or read a document. (What you read below are actual timeline events in the game. )
In this example, you (protagonist) just found & read a newspaper article about Benjamin Harris discovery of a mysterious house (the house), on one of his hunting trip, & success made a legal claim to it. The game should prompt you that new event timeline have been added, which you see with a NEW icon.

Hint Menu:
An update of the hint menu I made earlier.

 

[Z A C K]

For a mock up I think that all looks pretty good. You have a lot of information on screen yes, but especially in the case of the Game Menu, I think it's all relevant.

 

[starseeker]

Thanks for the kind word.

Anyway, my first ever storyboard! I need to get used to paint direct to computer. I still sucks, but I will improve with practice.
Note that this is only a sketch (suppose to be quick & dirty, but it took me 2 evenings). The final Cutscene will be similar, but final artwork, & in form of slideshow style animation.

Juts to explain a little, this cutscene will play at the beginning of the game, & after 'blood' scene, you will be find yourself just waking up on the floor in a locked room that is stranger to you. You have a massive headache, & you couldn't remember why you are here.......or who you are. Why are you being locked, who locked you, & if so, why. Are you an important person? Many questions, little answer, bu soon you find yourself that the house hold more mystery that you thought....

 

[Godsmack]

Thanks for the kind word.

Anyway, my first ever storyboard! I need to get used to paint direct to computer. I still sucks, but I will improve with practice.
Note that this is only a sketch (suppose to be quick & dirty, but it took me 2 evenings). The final Cutscene will be similar, but final artwork, & in form of slideshow style animation.

Juts to explain a little, this cutscene will play at the beginning of the game, & after 'blood' scene, you will be find yourself just waking up on the floor in a locked room that is stranger to you. You have a massive headache, & you couldn't remember why you are here.......or who you are. Why are you being locked, who locked you, & if so, why. Are you an important person? Many questions, little answer, bu soon you find yourself that the house hold more mystery that you thought....

Just a couple quick comments/suggestions.

I noticed that woman in green is wearing pink gloves in every scene except the first one where they are grey instead.

Also, when the girl shouts nooo, she seems to be "commanding" the other person not to do something rather than acting genuinely frightened/surprised. You should take some time to study body language and facial expressions as they relate to fine art. It is not as easy as it seems, so it's definitely a good idea to brush up. This is especially true since you are doing comic style cutscenes where you need characters to display the exact emotions you intended.

Even I still buy art courses myself, so don't take anything I say as a bad thing. You can never learn too much. You should be able to find this info online for free though. Now, anatomy courses or whatnot are another matter. I usually buy those.

 

[starseeker]

Just a couple quick comments/suggestions.

I noticed that woman in green is wearing pink gloves in every scene except the first one where they are grey instead.

Also, when the girl shouts nooo, she seems to be "commanding" the other person not to do something rather than acting genuinely frightened/surprised. You should take some time to study body language and facial expressions as they relate to fine art. It is not as easy as it seems, so it's definitely a good idea to brush up. This is especially true since you are doing comic style cutscenes where you need characters to display the exact emotions you intended.

Even I still buy art courses myself, so don't take anything I say as a bad thing. You can never learn too much. You should be able to find this info online for free though. Now, anatomy courses or whatnot are another matter. I usually buy those.

Woman in green only appear in one scene. I thought it was fairly obvious that's the mother. The one waering pink glove is not a woman, & is in first person perspective. That was you (Protagonist) actually, the little sister of the girl in pink jacket. Is it not obvious this is a dream sequence/flashback? Just curious. Maybe I need to change the color of the clothes.

I will see how I can better express the emotion using this style. Maybe I can change the words to 'OH Noooo...." instead. I am not a avid comic reader so it may constitute to lacking the right way to express in the style. I will work on it, as well as read more comics to capture the correct expressions.

 

[Z A C K]

From the perspective of someone who doesn't know too much about art, I thought it looked pretty good. After reading Godsmack's comment though I do agree it seems like she is commanding "Noo".

 

[Godsmack]

Woman in green only appear in one scene. I thought it was fairly obvious that's the mother. The one waering pink glove is not a woman, & is in first person perspective. That was you (Protagonist) actually, the little sister of the girl in pink jacket. Is it not obvious this is a dream sequence/flashback? Just curious. Maybe I need to change the color of the clothes.

I will see how I can better express the emotion using this style. Maybe I can change the words to 'OH Noooo...." instead. I am not a avid comic reader so it may constitute to lacking the right way to express in the style. I will work on it, as well as read more comics to capture the correct expressions.

Sorry, I was a bit tired and just looked at the pictures. Even with the comics that I bought, I hardly ever read them, lol. I can see now after reading it that she is a different person. Of course, a change in color would help her stand out more.

 

[starseeker]

Thanks for the feedbacks, & keep them coming. I am still learning. I will try to improve, & already I know some areas I need to improve, thanks to feedback.

 

[Godsmack]

Okay, so I thought about what I was saying about expressions and body language. I thought I would illustrate it a bit with an example. I don't like just saying "no, you should do it differently" and not being more specific.

So, here is a quick sketch with some changes. Note that I did not want to spend all day on this. I also do not feel like putting on an actual glove to see exactly what kinds of creases and folds to expect. But you get the idea. This is just for demonstrative purposes anyway.

By the way, this is not to criticize or say something is bad. I simply want to show my perspective.

Here is my changes. Mine is the bottom one.

List of changes:

1. Before, when the palm was up and forward, it indicated more of a defensive gesture such as "stop!" The hand gesture was changed to a "reaching out" pose. This is to indicate her reaching towards her sister or simply reaching out like a feeling of helplessness. I moved her hand further away from her body as well to be less defensive like and more reaching towards someone else.

2. The body was given slightly more diagonal emphasis to create a bit of movement and a less stable base. It's subtle.

3. The mouth was change to not show teeth. When saying "no" the lips push forward slightly. An open mouth with no teeth visible helps indicate surprise but also sadness. It is possible to show teeth while surprised, but this is usually more for "annoyed" or angry gestures like if someone spilled their drink on you.

4. The "inner" eyebrow was raised to indicate sadness and tension. Eye brows are very expressive and can give the wrong impression very easily. For example, if you lower the inner eye brow, it can indicate anger or a more annoyed type of surprise like I mentioned before.

5. The eyes were slightly opened. I didn't do it much, but every little bit helps.

Like I said, it's not a perfect sketch. I would ideally take more time on the wrinkles on the clothing, and spend some more time perfecting the face. But anyway, hopefully this gives you a different take on body language.

 

[starseeker]

Thanks a lot for the paintover & detailed explaination . I learned a lot already.

 

[starseeker]

Second try at comic style coloring in Manga artist. Lines are traced over photo. Coloring & style are my own.

I think the lines are too thick at some areas, & too thin at some. Coloring can also be improve, but that's for Comic style coloring test 03 later.
The one thing I am happy is the illustration took me quite fast. About 40 mins I think, which is fast by my own standard.

 

[Godsmack]

Second try at comic style coloring in Manga artist. Lines are traced over photo. Coloring & style are my own.

I think the lines are too thick at some areas, & too thin at some. Coloring can also be improve, but that's for Comic style coloring test 03 later.
The one thing I am happy is the illustration took me quite fast. About 40 mins I think, which is fast by my own standard.

You know, I've noticed that your style when tracing over photos is very different than the style you used when doing that comic of the women. I think your work is getting too fidgety when working over a photo. Your lines are becoming scribbly, and your looseness and expression are lessened.

I actually think the loose style you used in the comic with the women that you drew was better. It was more expressive with bolder lines and loose strokes. I'd like to see you do more like that.

 

[starseeker]

I am not exactly a fanastic 2D artist , & actually, the Comic of the girls, is sort of first attempt to create artwork without sketching with pencil, & scan to PC, usually as concept for the 3D work


I do think with practice, my 2D art skill can get better. Practice, practice.

 

[DLC]

Tried Manga Studio and after did some cleanup in photoshop.

 

[starseeker]

The lines look a bit , did you use a stylus?

Some advice (if you have not already done already):
1) is to use different layer for different shades.
2) Many times, using mask is better than eraser, as it is reversible.You can always Apply mask later.
3) Use the rotate function and scale, to get the angle/Size to apply a brush stroke. Especially useful for line work.