WTF Ukraine?

D-V-ANT said:
Because the world should know who is responsible for this atrocity. I'm sure if you had family on that flight, you'd want answers. And yes, I 100% percent believe it was the rebels. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. It makes no difference in the end to me. And as your new here don't go making assumptions about members you don't know. I'm certainly not sitting hear watching Fox and buying every lie and half truth they regurgitate
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I made an assumption that you were watching or reading Western based media. Ididnt assume you were watching Fox.

if I had family on that flight, I wouldnt want their deaths to be used by either Russia or the West in order to justify the continuing destruction of the Ukraine, which is what is happening now. It would make no difference to me which nationality or alligence my familys killers held.
 
I am pretty impressed so far, no mention of false flags in the thread yet.

Alex said:
You do that. But why does it matter who accidentally shot the plane down? To me, it makes no difference. It has no baring on anything going on in Ukraine. Its just a sensless blame game.
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It's pretty much a lock that the separatists are behind this. News that they were given SAM systems were reported days before. They've already downed other planes. They're already obstructing an investigation. Then there's the recordings, pictures and videos. And if it's true that the black boxes were removed and sent to Russia, that's a pretty clear sign that something is fishy.

Of course it matters who did this. First, it needs to stop. You don't just hand over surface to air missiles to some ragtag group of rebels with no training or accountability. Second, someone has to be financially liable. I doubt insurance covers much of this. Then there are the international crimes committed. Finally, there needs to be some acknowledgement from Russia that they're no long supplying this type of equipment. I expect the usual Putin blame game and denial at first.
 
I'm glad im one of the ones that contributes to a more f***ed up world so if u can excuse me for a min I have some fundraisers to attend too, I'll get back with u later
 
horns said:
What a silly and ridiculous comparison to make. Shows that Obama critics will literally jump on any issue. If Obama reacted right away without knowing all the facts, he'd be criticized for that. Waiting for all the information to be at hand before reacting results in criticism. He just can't win with his uninformed critics.

Moreover, Reagan took 4 days to give that speech. He wasn't at home and dropped everything to give some heartwarming 20-minute speech. Plus, Reagan wasn't even President in '78. Too many holes in what you're claiming.

http://www.reagan.utexas.edu/archives/speeches/1983/90583a.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Air_Lines_Flight_007
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I stand corrected. I confused the 1983 incident with the 1978 incident. :yawn:
 
I'm not exactly what the right course of action is at this moment from a US perspective, but I do feel we should at least be 100% sure of what's happening this time around before we decide to go into another war. I think that's pretty fair to all parties involved.
 
DarkPassenger said:
Russia shot down a Korean airliner in 1983. President Ronald Reagan, who was at home at the time, immediately gave a 20 minute speech to the American people. The speech was heartfelt and sincere from the former president. Obama heard about the plane shot down today while he was doing whatever God knows what then gives a 40 second speech about how he felt sympathy for the families of the dead. Then it was immediately back to whatever was on his schedule. Quite a testament to how this country has changed from Bush and beyond.
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With last sentence
 
Fox news.... Yeah they bomb Obama alot but look at what he is allowing to go on. They're the only news channel that isn't afraid to put someone on blast if they're in the wrong.
 
Bigjoemeat said:
Fox news.... Yeah they bomb Obama alot but look at what he is allowing to go on. They're the only news channel that isn't afraid to put someone on blast if they're in the wrong.
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Please explain what is the "right" thing for obama to do
 
Personally, I think its unfair for US to take all the responsibility for the conflict.

Also I have always thought its poor foresight for many western countries to downsize their arm force, thinking there will be no more threat. Its in our history. War & mankind comes hand in hand.
 
starseeker said:
Personally, I think its unfair for US to take all the responsibility for the conflict.

Also I have always thought its poor foresight for many western countries to downsize their arm force, thinking there will be no more threat. Its in our history. War & mankind comes hand in hand.
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Unfair ? I would say it is moronic to expect the US to sort out every problem world wide. Europe are more than capable of sorting out their own s***, and it is about time they started doing so.
 
I'm talking about lending a helping hand to our closest allies Israel, all the other big heads stepped up in some sort of way and then obama was the last, how does that make us look torwards our Allie..im talking about closing the borders and making them come over the correct way. Cause more than 80 percent of Illegals skip there immigration court dates. s*** is a mess. Its unfair to the ones that went through the long process of getting papers. So yeah he is f***ing up. I live in San Diego, their pouring in over here.
 
We give Israel billions of dollars a year. We supply Israel with many if not all their war planes and who knows what other military hardware. What more do you want? Plus, have you seen some of the atrocities Israel commits? There is no clean hands in that conflict and I personally would be more happy to see the end of U.S. support unless somebody tries to invade Israel.

Great, Obama has been trying to get immigration reformation going because the system is broken and inefficient. Congress has specifically said they will not work with him to fix the immigration issue. Then the dude says fine , I will do it myself and jackasses then turn around and call him a fascist, a dictator, etc etc.

The man can't win no matter what he does.
 
The man can't win if he dosent try. I'll leave it at that. Your opinion my opinion..it's all good
 
Alex said:
Some say pro-Western forces shot down the plane thinking it was Putins areoplane - which was in the same vicinity just 20 minutes before.
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That sounds...suspect. What would he be doing flying over ukraine? The man has been ("Officially") giving both sides the cold shoulder for the past few months. If he was actually known to have gone there, that sounds like something most would report on.

ZombiesRUCrazy said:
Nobody will react most likely.
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Assorted Countries sure are "reacting," insofar as they're wagging their finger at putin. Not exactly helpful.. Someone has suggested revoking his G20 invite. Not sure of the benefits of that one.

Hopefully they can make good on their word and follow suit with the US on economic sanctions. Indirect military action is...appropriate, given whats been lost, but obviously not preferred.

Check back next week for another exciting episode of worldwide politics
 
ZombiesRUCrazy said:
We give Israel billions of dollars a year. We supply Israel with many if not all their war planes and who knows what other military hardware. What more do you want? Plus, have you seen some of the atrocities Israel commits? There is no clean hands in that conflict and I personally would be more happy to see the end of U.S. support unless somebody tries to invade Israel.

Great, Obama has been trying to get immigration reformation going because the system is broken and inefficient. Congress has specifically said they will not work with him to fix the immigration issue. Then the dude says fine , I will do it myself and jackasses then turn around and call him a fascist, a dictator, etc etc.

The man can't win no matter what he does.
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It's funny how Israel gets so much so support, but if you get caught waving your finger at them, you're kind of crucified for it.
 
Tommygun. said:
That sounds...suspect. What would he be doing flying over ukraine? The man has been ("Officially") giving both sides the cold shoulder for the past few months. If he was actually known to have gone there, that sounds like something most would report on.



Assorted Countries sure are "reacting," insofar as they're wagging their finger at putin. Not exactly helpful.. Someone has suggested revoking his G20 invite. Not sure of the benefits of that one.

Hopefully they can make good on their word and follow suit with the US on economic sanctions. Indirect military action is...appropriate, given whats been lost, but obviously not preferred.

Check back next week for another exciting episode of worldwide politics
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Well the UK, France, and Germany are going to be asking for further sanctions on Russia. I know the UK prime Minister is meeting with Putin soon (today?) and his goal is to get Putin to aid in getting the investigators in and the bodies of the dead home.
 
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