EDGE backs up PS4 "50% faster" story
- Thread starter NFL GREAT
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don't ya mean..you shake your fists?I know. I just shake my head every time he posts.
Lol cutting no he means shake his head, just like everyone else, everytime I go in a thread ppl are making fun of you for the same things over and over and over again. Everyone knows you love KZ(regardless of how much slower it looks when that's all you talked about was how fast gameplay on ps3 KZ is), we're blown away you think it looks the best of all console games, super surprised! Where is this widespread opinion you mention of SF being the best looking game? I'm on NeoGaf and psu and I don't see that. Just another ploy to back up your ultra based opinion. Again.
There are TONS of core 3rd party games confirmed to be using Kinect. At what point do you guys stop clinging to the stereotypes and assumptions behind your view of Kinect 1.0 and accept reality? These are facts. Tons of major AAA 3rd party core games are using Kinect integration. Get over it.
Ok, so let's say the PS4 is "balanced" for 1.4 tflops and will use the additional 400 gflops for animation, physics, and lighting. What does the Xbox One use for animation, physics and lighting?
From everything I have seen, I haven't heard of a single developer not including some sort of Kinect 2.0 functionality in the X1 games. Be it voice, motion control, facial recognition.
Odds are slim that those CU's will all be used to do that stuff. You still have to process audio somewhere on PS4. Devs have to split up audio processing and AI, physics, game heap between the CPU and CU's. And lighting is done on the 14 CU's. That's a rendering task.
As I understand it the PS4 audio requirements aren't nearly as steep as the Xbox One's. The X1 used voice recognition so that's supposedly the main reason why it has a beefier audio processor. The PS4 could basically get away with the same kind of audio processing they used for the PS3.
It would make absolutely no sense at all for developers to waste any significant part of that 400 gflops on audio.
It's getting to the point where I really don't see any benefit of having a next gen console when a GTX 660 is moderately priced at 1.8 tflops.
You get over it, head tracking and voice is about all that's been talked about which is the same crap that was done last gen. When will you get over your fantasy that including kinect in every box means a ton of support and new kinect games? kinect features are virtually ignored when games are being talked about so far, nobody is coming out saying "look how great our game uses kinect" I know you feel kinect is this amazing thing and that's fine, I hope you have a lot of fun with it but stop pretending because it's included that it's going to mean 3rd parties are going to get behind it in a meaningful way, there is NO proof of that so far.
No proof that there won't be meaningful improved Kinect support. In fact, it's most likely going to have improved support because it is included with every console. Developers are more likely to support an accessory that comes with 100% of the Xboxes as opposed to only 25% of the Xboxes.
But dude... it's "NEW!". As such they're will be new ways to talk to kinect and new ways to move your body and head. I mean in the thousands of years man has been on earth they haven't found that secret way to speak and move but Kinect will still do something new...
...somehow.
Again, it's like a PC gamer saying "Now that I have 33 buttons and 9001 dpi on my mouse and they're standard with all new PCs game developers will find new ways for us to play games.
Um, no, they won't because you still move the mouse with your hand and press the buttons with your fingers and thumb.
But they won't even entertain the idea that it will bring nothing new.
Why? Because then they would have to justify the already unjustifiable +$100 the XB1 costs.
So you demand full body only games yet you'd be first in line to attack said games if they are made. Last gen very few core games have Kinect support at all. Only a couple did late in its life and it was fantastic. 3rd parties are already supporting it en masse for core games. You just don't want to accept reality so you've moved the goalposts (again).
What? Who told you that? No...It's got nothing to do with the console, it's the game that demands audio processing as per its programming.
There's no 'supposedly' about it. That's outright false. We don't have to guess the motivations. We KNOW them because bkilian told us months ago. The MEC was for Kinect. The rest is for traditional game audio, including SHAPE, which is the synthesizing tasks I have been talking about. Like knowing how to calculate echoes and reverb in a cave or warehouse (see: CoD: Ghosts) or how to handle Doppler shifts on moving sources or how to do reverb and muffling on voices/nades in a small enclosed train car (see: BF4's Levolution trailers).
Trying to compare things to PS3 vs 360 audio is dumb because the only differences there were in sound quality from the speakers (7.1 vs 5.1) and very few have 7.1 setups to begin with. Here the difference is in the sound files being played back themselves and its pretty dramatic difference if it's not there.
If you wanted your games to sound like s*** compared to the competition, sure. This isn't about the quality of the audio coming out of your speakers (7.1 vs 5.1 etc). It's about the fidelity of synthesizing audio. Games aren't about just playing back pre-made audio files anymore. and with the CPU's as they are in X1/PS4 I highly doubt devs will want to do what they have always done, meaning throw a CPU at it. Both have worked (much less so on Sony's end) to move loads off of the CPU. They do that for a reason. Adding audio back onto the CPU is a recipe for cutting lots of corners in physics, AI, etc. in that version which means you have to re-balance your game.
sebbbi made this point at B3d just yesterday. The LAST thing devs will want to do most likely is adjust physics or AI across sku's by moving those tasks from the CPU on PC/X1 over to the GPU on PS4. The VAST majority of physics/AI calculations don't benefit from the parallelism the GPGPU stuff offers (you use GPGPU moreso for stuff where you need 10k+ threads processing the tasks and very little physics/AI fits into that framework). Fluid sim? Yes. Screenspace post fx like certain types of AA and AF? Sure. But you wanna keep your baseline physics and AI on the CPU.
Audio, on the other hand, doesn't directly affect gameplay and doesn't need extensive re-testing after tweaks. It is also often done in large chunks where parallelism at the GPGPU level is gonna be helpful. Hence, I expect devs to push audio tasks to the CU's and keep the CPU disparity at a minimum between the platforms to avoid extensive game re-testing.
They either do it there or on the CPU. Those are your options. Not having audio isn't an option. Not having modern audio processing isn't an option either if you want your game to sell. Unless you don't care how immersive your game is in the first place.
So your saying because SONY dont come with the camera and its sucks, the developers are not going to do something awesome for kinect because SONY dont have it?
So the developers cant do anything new because SONY is holding developers back. Your going to be shocked when you start seeing titles taking the advantage of the kinect.
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He does actually. I was just reading the thread and the guy was getting absolutely handled.
See. This was what I was talking about. Not that developers are having problems, but that there is something extra that they need to do in order to get performance out of that ram setup. We had people here claiming that there was nothing else that needed be done with the ESRAM that wasn't done with the 360. Clearly, if any developer is having problems with the esram that they didn't have with the 360 there must something different about this situation.
Why are you quoting random know nothings from GAF? They've been wrong on damn nearly every single aspect of the console hardware shakedown. You're like an intellectual masochist.
Wow! Try not to trip while you backpedal! Ha! Where's that gif of that creepy alien conspiracy theorist nutjob when we need it?
"I'm not saying they had trouble with the eSRAM...but they had trouble with the eSRAM."
We know they have additional flexibility to design around. that's a GOOD thing. Devs have been using embedded RAM since PS2. This isn't confusing anyone who had made any consoles games in the past 13 yrs. If anyone, it's likely just indie devs with little or no console experience.
Posting from Gaf is like posting from here. We are all on gaf, we are all on here. No difference between posting here or at gaf. There is no difference, no more or less credibility.
Gaf says this, gaf says that. We are gaf, lol. I am at gaf every day. What makes us any smarter over there than over here....or what makes us more credible there versus here.
Using gaf as a source is like using vgchartz as a source.
Gaf says this, gaf says that. We are gaf, lol. I am at gaf every day. What makes us any smarter over there than over here....or what makes us more credible there versus here.
Using gaf as a source is like using vgchartz as a source.
See. This was what I was talking about. Not that developers are having problems, but that there is something extra that they need to do in order to get performance out of that ram setup. We had people here claiming that there was nothing else that needed be done with the ESRAM that wasn't done with the 360. Clearly, if any developer is having problems with the esram that they didn't have with the 360 there must something different about this situation.
Who are you quoting? And that info is just wrong as it is coming from a very particular bias, and the console closest to true HSA is the X1, not the PS4. Go learn about the technology you like to quote on.
Edit: He quoted from GAF, no wonder...
I'm saying that's not the point I'm trying to make. So I'm not going to touch on whether or not the esram is difficult to deal with. I'm saying that you are flatout being intellectually dishonest by pretending not to know what I was talking about. That somehow the ESRAM was utilized in the same way as the GDDR5 was.
Here is a quote from B3D for you:
Weren't the guys claiming about the ram from EA? There was another (anonymous) report that Infinity Ward had issues also. Not saying that Infinity Ward isn't lazy that's not the point.
They aren't just randoms. They are verified by NeoGAF staff. That's why Eurogamer picked up the story when they heard about verified developers complaining about the XB1 performance.
Also, Seven you are reading too much into that whole 50% thing. No it's not a 50% difference. However, at launch if MS doesn't really have the driver performance and developers tools up to par for launch titles and they have to bring stuff down to 900p then that's significant. Not 50%, but significant.
I'm not saying they won't eventually get their act together, but in the mean time those issues will be front and center.
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Brad Genz again. Continue following that thread to watch him corrected yet again as the PS4 audio processor is straight forward DSP functions, not game leveling processing nor anything remotely approaching the Shape processor.
And Betanumerical is another idiot that spreads FUD in a slow careful manner, but he too gets caught when people finally stop ignoring him. That idiot used to be a member of TXB back in the 360/PS3 lauch period with his anal upa$$ing of the power of Cell.
Stop cherry picking, particularly the rotten cherries there.
Not cherry picking. Just spotted it and decided to post it. There was nothing particularly bad about that post. It just said the PS4 didn't need the same level of audio processing because it didn't have the voice recognition functions like Kinect. I don't see a problem with it.
There is everything wrong with it. Just alone the fact that Kinect's processing is in the Kinect itself. So the finely crafted Gentz post is useless FUD.
It is on you to post things with proper context and whole arguments; not he said she said cr@p which is what you are doing, thus distributing and persisting FUD, which I think you just enjoy doing and don't really have any particular care of proving a point or not.
My good sir, it is doubleunplusgood for you to nottruthsay his truthfacts.
Your post gave me an idea for a UnionVG SitCom...
Some catch phrase ideas...
"Whatcha talkin' bout hrudey?!" or
"Oh hrudey!" with a tilted head smile to the screen.