Analyst predicts PS5 in 2018

de3d1 said:
I feel like your sort of pushing any idea that Scorpio won't get much love because its new, which doesn't make sense. The "no improvements" part had a question mark at the end, I didn't say you were implying that for certain. Also, If phil's words are so strong, can't he just boss everyone and tell them he wants custom work for Scorpio too, why does that only work for negative things like chewing up power using 4k "no excuses."?

Yeah, I couldn't find the quote, even then, big wigs at MS have said all kinds of crap over the years, means nothing without a mandate, even then its sketchy. Look at the mandate sony supposedly put on pro, "all ps4 games after X date will be pro upgraded."

Didn't happen.
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Sony never put a mandate, that was in a leaked document but they aren't forcing devs to do anything on the Pro but you would be insane to think they aren't telling their first parties to push it. As far as MS, Spencer can absolutely tell 1st party devs that they need to make Scorpio games native 4K, that's the whole reason for the thing existing in the first place. Hell he was telling people last year if you don't have a 4K tv don't get scorpio get the X1s because you won't see the improvements scorpio will bring on a 1080p set. I'm not going to talk about that anymore, if you don't believe he can tell 1st party devs to make games 4K that's up to you.
 
JinCA said:
Sony never put a mandate, that was in a leaked document but they aren't forcing devs to do anything on the Pro but you would be insane to think they aren't telling their first parties to push it. As far as MS, Spencer can absolutely tell 1st party devs that they need to make Scorpio games native 4K, that's the whole reason for the thing existing in the first place. Hell he was telling people last year if you don't have a 4K tv don't get scorpio get the X1s because you won't see the improvements scorpio will bring on a 1080p set. I'm not going to talk about that anymore, if you don't believe he can tell 1st party devs to make games 4K that's up to you.
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He can tell devs whatever he likes, my point is what is he gonna do if they don't pull off native 4k? Fire all of 343i? Turn 10? Fine them? Unlike them on fb? Logically explain what could happen and why they would care. Those two devs will probably pull off 4k/60fps, but you get the idea.

Guys like Phil aren't game developers, and without a mandate, it's even more meaningless.
Also, much of my point revolves around 3rd party were we will absolutely see stark differences in CB solutions over pro and get resolution advantages at 4k.
 
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de3d1 said:
He can tell devs whatever he likes, my point is what is he gonna do if they don't pull off native 4k? Fire all of 343i? Turn 10? Fine them? Unlike them on fb? Logically explain what could happen and why they would care. Those two devs will probably pull off 4k/60fps, but you get the idea.

Guys like Phil aren't game developers, and without a mandate, it's even more meaningless.
Also, much of my point revolves around 3rd party were we will absolutely see stark differences in CB solutions over pro and get resolution advantages at 4k.
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You do what your boss tells you lol, if you think a dev team is going to say "let's all stand up to Phil and say we won't do this game in 4K" you need to think a little harder about what you are saying. He is the one who runs Xbox, he is in charge of all 1st party studios as well as everything else that has to do with Xbox, if he says "4K no compromises" that means it's going to be 4K not checker boarding so either he is a liar or that's what 1st party will do and they'll have to plan their games around that.

Secondly I already said 3rd parties will be different so why are you continuing to argue about this? I said that a long time ago, we agree that 3rd parties are a different story. I don't believe they'll put a ton of extra work into the machine especially early on, you seem to think they will and that's fine. It seems to me that it's more your wish than what your actual thoughts are though but that's not really for me to say as you know your own mind I don't.
 
The Living Tribunal said:
Which goes back to my other point: If it is launching next year at 10TF worth of GPU compute expect it to be very expensive.
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Doubt it. PS5 wouldn't be more than $499. Sony has the best technicians in the world developing their hardware. Even if they had to eat some of the cost up front to get a 10TF PS4 out next year they could do it. Then they could offer the three best consoles at the best price ranges. PS4 at $299, PS4 Pro at $399, and PS5 at $499. That would likely be a bludgeoning that not even Microsoft could recover from.
 
TDbank24 said:
Doubt it. PS5 wouldn't be more than $499. Sony has the best technicians in the world developing their hardware. Even if they had to eat some of the cost up front to get a 10TF PS4 out next year they could do it. Then they could offer the three best consoles at the best price ranges. PS4 at $299, PS4 Pro at $399, and PS5 at $499. That would likely be a bludgeoning that not even Microsoft could recover from.
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Irrelevant. Technology only advances so fast regardless of how great the Sony technicians are. If the tech isn't cheap then the price passes on to the consumer.
Furthermore what about Sony's current financial situation makes you think they could sustain eating the cost of a high priced system? It isn't just the cost of launching a system. It is the years worth of R&D that are bundled into the costs.
I'd argue that the current state of Sony even prohibits a new console launch any earlier than 2019. You essentially expect them to invest in R&D and marketing and then come out with a full console launch that will be sold at a loss and then also maintain 3 consoles on the market with developers and 1st party devs coding for the base PS4.
They would have to code for the PS4 because it has the highest sold to base in order to make any type of profit.

Pipe dream.
 
The Living Tribunal said:
Irrelevant. Technology only advances so fast regardless of how great the Sony technicians are. If the tech isn't cheap then the price passes on to the consumer.
Furthermore what about Sony's current financial situation makes you think they could sustain eating the cost of a high priced system? It isn't just the cost of launching a system. It is the years worth of R&D that are bundled into the costs.
I'd argue that the current state of Sony even prohibits a new console launch any earlier than 2019. You essentially expect them to invest in R&D and marketing and then come out with a full console launch that will be sold at a loss and then also maintain 3 consoles on the market with developers and 1st party devs coding for the base PS4.
They would have to code for the PS4 because it has the highest sold to base in order to make any type of profit.

Pipe dream.
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It's no different than what Microsoft is doing and they're in a much tougher spot. Saying nobody gets left behind and then trying to market the most powerful console does them no favors. If nobody gets left behind then Scorpio gets held back, plain and simple. So if PS5 comes out it's basically the same deal for PS4. If Sony continues to support it, and they will for at least another 4-5 years like they do with all their consoles.

It can be done, it's just not an ideal situation when you're already cruising along. Might as well make the most profit you can now and then launch PS5, the first true 4K gaming console. The ball is in Sony's court. Whether it's 2018 or the year after that they are set to make a splash with the PS5.
 
TDbank24 said:
It's no different than what Microsoft is doing and they're in a much tougher spot. Saying nobody gets left behind and then trying to market the most powerful console does them no favors. If nobody gets left behind then Scorpio gets held back, plain and simple. So if PS5 comes out it's basically the same deal for PS4. If Sony continues to support it, and they will for at least another 4-5 years like they do with all their consoles. It can be done, it's just not an ideal situation when you're already cruising along. Might as well make the most profit you can now and then launch PS5, the first true 4K gaming console. The ball is in Sony's court. Whether it's 2018 or the year after that they are set to make a splash with the PS5.
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No it is different. Sony just released the PS4PRO. It isnt even a year old. Microsoft needed to release an updated console to compete. What is Sony's reason? To essentially compete with themselves? They have the highest install base.

Your logic isn't matching up with reality.
 
The Living Tribunal said:
No it is different. Sony just released the PS4PRO. It isnt even a year old. Microsoft needed to release an updated console to compete. What is Sony's reason? To essentially compete with themselves? They have the highest install base.

Your logic isn't matching up with reality.
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Wasn't that their reason with the PS4 Pro? They're market leader, they have the luxury of doing what they want without pissing off customers. As long as they keep delivering the games, people will buy the hardware. What's to say Sony doesn't release a slim model PS4 Pro at $299 and then phase out the PS4 slim? That's probably what the plan is.

Microsoft doesn't have that option because they already said nobody gets left behind and the Xbox One S is the cheap model whereas the Scorpio could be $599 for all we know. They better hope it's no more than $499 when Sony will be able to do the Scorpio and better next year at $499. I've said it before and i'll say it again. I don't get why it's okay for Microsoft to rush and release new hardware every 4 years but as soon as there's talk of Sony doing it 5 years later everyone goes off.
 
JinCA said:
You do what your boss tells you lol, if you think a dev team is going to say "let's all stand up to Phil and say we won't do this game in 4K" you need to think a little harder about what you are saying. He is the one who runs Xbox, he is in charge of all 1st party studios as well as everything else that has to do with Xbox, if he says "4K no compromises" that means it's going to be 4K not checker boarding so either he is a liar or that's what 1st party will do and they'll have to plan their games around that.

Secondly I already said 3rd parties will be different so why are you continuing to argue about this? I said that a long time ago, we agree that 3rd parties are a different story. I don't believe they'll put a ton of extra work into the machine especially early on, you seem to think they will and that's fine. It seems to me that it's more your wish than what your actual thoughts are though but that's not really for me to say as you know your own mind I don't.
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Are you really putting faith in any executive here? Is it because Phil doesn't wear a suit or what? Where is all this trust coming from? First party more likely sure, but I can see where he can give developers power to reach 4k and the potential, but there being no mandate says it all, nothing else needed. I've heard it all over the years about what MS is gonna do, sony, even nintendo, means little other than a stern suggestion, its just the way it works. The other possibility is both, and I think we'll see that in some cases, performance mode CB and 4k.

You brought up the point about X1 being different so devs would have to do work to get games running on scorpio, why would a dev spend the time working on it and just leave it at lower settings like some pro games? The difference is ps4 games just run on pro automatically, so it makes even more sense why that machine doesn't get love there sometimes. It's not required to do a port, it already works.
 
Thread is filled with some serious bulls*** that is for sure.

Scorpio will have the best looking multiplatform games, and by a huge margin.
Scorpio will have the best performing multiplatform games, and by a huge margin
Scorpio will have the best looking exclusive games, and by a huge margin.
Scorpio will have the best performing exclusive games, and by a huge margin.

I have to laugh at the two people posting in here (which I think are the only people on the internet claiming this) think that 50% better performance isn't going to produce better performance and graphics. Talk about damage control. Even with the PS4 having 30% better performance than the Xbox One S, it produced noticeably better looking and performing games (not all, but many). The good thing is, we won't have to worry about a lowest common denominator because developers are still designing around limited CPU's in the PS Pro and Scorpio, but we will get more 4K asset games on the Scorpio, as well as better performance in FPS.

For a console gamer who desires the BEST performance and graphics, there would be no reason to play those games on a PS Pro.
 
Post above is full of so much BS I can smell it from here.
Poster above has a memory,math or lying problem as well.
40+% difference between PS4 vs XBO.
40+% difference between Scorpio and Pro.

When parity wasn't enforced...(which was rarely) The 40+% differences were evident.
When parity isn't enforced between Scorpio and Pro the differences will be evident.

Expect a 900p vs 1080p difference in most cases.
ie 1400p vs 1800p and 1800p vs 4K.
1440p is the new 900p vs 1800p and or 1800p vs 4K.

Its Xbox turn to get the parity treatment and believe you me no 3rd parties wanna piss off the number one selling console maker in gamings history.

Oh and de3d1 Phil can't mandate anything with 3rd parties.
Like said b4..if 4K isn't happening its because its not possible in certain games nothing more nothing less.
 
VaLLiancE said:
Post above is full of so much BS I can smell it from here.
Poster above has a memory,math or lying problem as well.
40+% difference between PS4 vs XBO.
40+% difference between Scorpio and Pro.

When parity wasn't enforced...(which was rarely) The 40+% differences were evident.
When parity isn't enforced between Scorpio and Pro the differences will be evident.

Expect a 900p vs 1080p difference in most cases.
ie 1400p vs 1800p and 1800p vs 4K.
1440p is the new 900p vs 1800p and or 1800p vs 4K.

Its Xbox turn to get the parity treatment and believe you me no 3rd parties wanna piss off the number one selling console maker in gamings history.

Oh and de3d1 Phil can't mandate anything with 3rd parties.
Like said b4..if 4K isn't happening its because its not possible in certain games nothing more nothing less.
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Microsoft - "there is no way we're giving up a 30%+ advantage to Sony. And ANYONE who has seen both systems running could say there are great looking games on both systems."

http://www.gamingunion.net/news/201...he-ps4-is-30-more-powerfull-than-the-xbox-one

There is no parity enforcement.

Scorpio will demolish the PS Pro in every scenario.
 
Kvally said:
Microsoft - "there is no way we're giving up a 30%+ advantage to Sony. And ANYONE who has seen both systems running could say there are great looking games on both systems."

http://www.gamingunion.net/news/201...he-ps4-is-30-more-powerfull-than-the-xbox-one

There is no parity enforcement.

Scorpio will demolish the PS Pro in every scenario.
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I am not close to listening to what MS has to say about much at all especially this.
Anyone with a brain who can do some math knows its a over 40% advantage in PS4's favor.
Certain games showed this.
 
VaLLiancE said:
I am not close to listening to what MS has to say about much at all especially this.
Anyone with a brain who can do some math knows its a over 40% advantage in PS4's favor.
Certain games showed this.
Click to expand...

I am not close to listening to what Val nor Mark Cerny has to say about much at all especially this.
 
de3d1 said:
Are you really putting faith in any executive here? Is it because Phil doesn't wear a suit or what? Where is all this trust coming from? First party more likely sure, but I can see where he can give developers power to reach 4k and the potential, but there being no mandate says it all, nothing else needed. I've heard it all over the years about what MS is gonna do, sony, even nintendo, means little other than a stern suggestion, its just the way it works. The other possibility is both, and I think we'll see that in some cases, performance mode CB and 4k.

You brought up the point about X1 being different so devs would have to do work to get games running on scorpio, why would a dev spend the time working on it and just leave it at lower settings like some pro games? The difference is ps4 games just run on pro automatically, so it makes even more sense why that machine doesn't get love there sometimes. It's not required to do a port, it already works.
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Not talking about Spencer anymore, I don't trust the guy more than any other exec, honestly I think he's full of crap more than anything. He says one thing and turns around and contradicts it later but enough about him and about 1st party.

My opinion on 3rd party is simple, they already have to do extra work (not sure how much/little) to get around the memory changes from the X1 version to Scorpio, that already takes time and money and they likely aren't about to allocate much more than it takes early on to do the bare minimum. Scorpio should have higher native resolutions than Pro games that should be a given as it's got a stronger GPU and it's probably one of the easiest improvements to make.

What I don't think they'll spend a lot of time on is taking advantage of the extra power in other areas, at least not this year, Scorpio won't be out until the fall and any game that releases this fall will be played the least on scorpio out of all of the consoles available at the time of launch. As time goes on and devs have more time to incorporate it into projects and the installed base grows we'll probably see more effort put into taking advantage of it but I doubt the majority of devs are really going to push Scorpio for a while.

The Pro was made to be easy to work on yet devs still haven't pushed it, if they had made it more complicated I'm sure devs would have done even less. I don't get your logic about the memory set up and "ah since we already have to do extra work let's just pile on more" mentality you came up with for Scorpio.
 
VaLLiancE said:
I am not close to listening to what MS has to say about much at all especially this.
Anyone with a brain who can do some math knows its a over 40% advantage in PS4's favor.
Certain games showed this.
Click to expand...

Yep, it all depends on what a dev is willing to do to exploit the power difference.
 
JinCA said:
Not talking about Spencer anymore, I don't trust the guy more than any other exec, honestly I think he's full of crap more than anything. He says one thing and turns around and contradicts it later but enough about him and about 1st party.

My opinion on 3rd party is simple, they already have to do extra work (not sure how much/little) to get around the memory changes from the X1 version to Scorpio, that already takes time and money and they likely aren't about to allocate much more than it takes early on to do the bare minimum. Scorpio should have higher native resolutions than Pro games that should be a given as it's got a stronger GPU and it's probably one of the easiest improvements to make.

What I don't think they'll spend a lot of time on is taking advantage of the extra power in other areas, at least not this year, Scorpio won't be out until the fall and any game that releases this fall will be played the least on scorpio out of all of the consoles available at the time of launch. As time goes on and devs have more time to incorporate it into projects and the installed base grows we'll probably see more effort put into taking advantage of it but I doubt the majority of devs are really going to push Scorpio for a while.

The Pro was made to be easy to work on yet devs still haven't pushed it, if they had made it more complicated I'm sure devs would have done even less. I don't get your logic about the memory set up and "ah since we already have to do extra work let's just pile on more" mentality you came up with for Scorpio.
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I pretty much disagree on everything you say here, it just doesn't make any sense to me. Pro games aren't getting love because its easy not to. When you are forced to port something over, then its different in that case. All 3rd games have to run on scorpio's specific hardware, so some work will need to be done anyway, why just make a straight port? You would literally have to intentionally downgrade settings, makes no sense. With pro it just works.
 
de3d1 said:
I pretty much disagree on everything you say here, it just doesn't make any sense to me. Pro games aren't getting love because its easy not to. When you are forced to port something over, then its different in that case. All 3rd games have to run on scorpio's specific hardware, so some work will need to be done anyway, why just make a straight port? You would literally have to intentionally downgrade settings, makes no sense. With pro it just works.
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I didn't say they'd downgrade settings, again why do you keep changing the conversation? I said they wouldn't put a lot of effort into it, doing the work around the memory set up is one thing and of course raising the resolution will be the easiest way to enhance the look of the game but I'm talking about going the extra mile to really push the console and I've said that repeatedly. If they were willing to do extra work than they would have gone the extra mile on the Pro since it's been made as simple as possible for them but most haven't. Being forced to take 5 extra steps doesn't mean you will willingly walk another 3 miles especially when you are working on a console that's going to have by far the lowest user base for years to come.
 
JinCA said:
I didn't say they'd downgrade settings, again why do you keep changing the conversation? I said they wouldn't put a lot of effort into it, doing the work around the memory set up is one thing and of course raising the resolution will be the easiest way to enhance the look of the game but I'm talking about going the extra mile to really push the console and I've said that repeatedly. If they were willing to do extra work than they would have gone the extra mile on the Pro since it's been made as simple as possible for them but most haven't. Being forced to take 5 extra steps doesn't mean you will willingly walk another 3 miles especially when you are working on a console that's going to have by far the lowest user base for years to come.
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That's the thing. The Scorpio will be one of the largest userbases. It's a Windows 10 machine and will be running the PC version of games. That is why the Xbox has changed their OS and gone to DX12. A great example now that they are one in the same is Minecraft Windows 10 for PC is replacing the Xbox version on Scorpio and Xbox. Like Phil said that once you have the assets on PC it's for Scorpio as well. PS4 will be the odd ball out as one game will work with PC, Xbox and Scorpio.
 
Kvally said:
That's the thing. The Scorpio will be one of the largest userbases. It's a Windows 10 machine and will be running the PC version of games. That is why the Xbox has changed their OS and gone to DX12. A great example now that they are one in the same is Minecraft Windows 10 for PC is replacing the Xbox version on Scorpio and Xbox. Like Phil said that once you have the assets on PC it's for Scorpio as well. PS4 will be the odd ball out as one game will work with PC, Xbox and Scorpio.
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Scorpio won't run pc games. Devs can port pc games over to the UWP platform, but the Scorpio won't actually run pc games. Meaning millions of pc games are unplayable onScorpio.
 
Kassen said:
Scorpio won't run pc games. Devs can port pc games over to the UWP platform, but the Scorpio won't actually run pc games. Meaning millions of pc games are unplayable onScorpio.
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Ah no. Lol. Microsoft has stated just the opposite. Make a Windows 10 PC UWP game and you can have it work on all three. That is great news.
 
Kvally said:
Ah no. Lol. Microsoft has stated just the opposite. Make a Windows 10 PC UWP game and you can have it work on all three. That is great news.
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you're missing the point. developers have to port to PC games to UWP before that is possible, meaning that millions of existing pc games will not work on Scorpio. Only the few select that get ported to UWP will work.
 
Kassen said:
you're missing the point. developers have to port to PC games to UWP before that is possible, meaning that millions of existing pc games will not work on Scorpio. Only the few select that get ported to UWP will work.
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We are not talking about existing games.
 
JinCA said:
I didn't say they'd downgrade settings, again why do you keep changing the conversation? I said they wouldn't put a lot of effort into it, doing the work around the memory set up is one thing and of course raising the resolution will be the easiest way to enhance the look of the game but I'm talking about going the extra mile to really push the console and I've said that repeatedly. If they were willing to do extra work than they would have gone the extra mile on the Pro since it's been made as simple as possible for them but most haven't. Being forced to take 5 extra steps doesn't mean you will willingly walk another 3 miles especially when you are working on a console that's going to have by far the lowest user base for years to come.
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Scorpio is a unique console compared to pro, the xb1 version won't just be a switch for Scorpio games like ps4 games just run on pro. Many games we aren't even getting the basic resolution bump on pro, there's a reason for that. Let me be clear, maxing out scorpio games is not an absolute thing lol, never said that, but there will be examples of developers squeezing power out of it early on.

What do you mean by "really push" the scorpio? Most games that are much more impressive than xb1/ps4 games are just resolution/textures/fps bumps on PC and it makes a massive difference. I mean, what are we talking about here thats so difference to really push it?
 
Kvally said:
We are not talking about existing games.
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You were saying Scorpio would be the largest user base because it would be a Windows 10 machine running the PC versions of games. But there are very few games that are being made for UWP, which is why your comments are confusing. Having an obscure UWP game every now and again won't make Xbox the largest user base.
 
Kassen said:
You were saying Scorpio would be the largest user base because it would be a Windows 10 machine running the PC versions of games. But there are very few games that are being made for UWP, which is why your comments are confusing. Having an obscure UWP game every now and again won't make Xbox the largest user base.
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You are not confused. We know what you are doing and you know what Microsoft is talking about.
 
Kvally said:
You are not confused. We know what you are doing and you know what Microsoft is talking about.
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Reports only ever mention Scorpio running UWP games. And UWP games are very few in number. This won't be a PC replacement.
 
JinCA said:
I If they were willing to do extra work than they would have gone the extra mile on the Pro since it's been made as simple as possible for them but most haven't.
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It's not as simple as possible. If you build a game for the PS4 Pro, you also have to ensure that the game will run on the non-pro models. If you build a game for the XB1 Scorpio, MS ensures the game will run on the non-pro models. In one case, *you* do the extra work. In the other case, *they* do the extra work.
 
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