Analyst predicts PS5 in 2018
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You're basically saying the massive RAM advantage and cpu boost is useless in most cases then.
The problem I have with that is most games on ps4 not only had higher resolution but also better performance, thats pretty darn decent considering its basically just a big gpu bump over xb1. Just going from 900p to 1080p is takes a decent amount of power, but its outperforming xb1 too.
The CPU boost is very small, 200mhz isn't all that much, hell the Pro got a 500mhz boost over the base PS4 and people still complained that wasn't enough, I doubt going up 200mhz more is going to add up to much of anything. The ram advantage will probably be the biggest contributor but again in instances where native 4K is what they are going for they really need that extra ram, especially at times higher res textures are added. I know on paper the power advantage looks big but when you are starting to try to run at these higher resolutions that power gets eaten up quickly, every improvement is "more expensive" technically than it would have been if they were trying it at 1080p.
I wonder how many people will decide to skip scorpio if an announcement like this is made? I know I'd likely hold off, I could definitely live with what the Pro provides me for another year and a half, considering only one game has even come close to really pushing it so far. Again I doubt Sony will do it but I wouldn't be mad if they did.
The combination will be significant, more customization in the cpu plus the minor speed boost and the RAM can be used in other ways, not just 4k textures. Also, 4k native is not required for scorpio, not sure why some keep bringing it up like its an automatic handicap. There is no mandate there.
What do you mean the pro cpu upgrade isn't significant? Many games run better on the faster cpu with no optimization, imagine if they were. Some are gpu based others aren't.
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I didn't say the Pro CPU boost wasn't significant, I said other people were complaining about it, also the PS4/Pro CPU is customized as well and according to at least one dev on Neogaf even at the slower speed they were able to get more out of the standard PS4 CPU than the one in the X1 which ran 10% faster, clearly MS needed to do more customizations. Either way a 200mhz advantage isn't that big.
Secondly YOU bring up the RAM and CPU seemingly every time you post about Scorpio, that's why I try to remind you that they need those things if they are going for native 4K and while that isn't mandated it IS the way MS is selling it publicly. Spencer is the one who keeps saying "4K no excuses" so while that's not mandated for 3rd party devs you can almost bet that's what will happen with 1st party games. I also said before devs can put upgraded textures in games with the set up the Pro has now, just very few have.
Problem with that is if Sony DOES announce a PS5 coming that soon it isn't going to be a huge step up from the Scorpio. They will be stuck with trying to figure out how to cram just enough tech inside the thing to make it a worthwhile upgrade from what the Scorpio has inside already. The technology will not have advanced so far as to warrant such a huge upgrade.
That is my fundamental issue with this entire rumor.
If Sony plans on launching a PS5 next year it isn't going to be a generational difference. They need to let technology advance sufficiently in order to make it a worthwhile generational leap. To me that was the entire premise of the PS4 Pro. It is a 'stop gap' console meant to bridge the divide between generations and allow the PS4 to remain competitive while resolutions and game engines become more demanding.
My honest feelings are if Sony launches a PS5 next year it isn't going to be all that much more powerful than the Scorpio. If it is it will be ridiculously priced. Sony would have to settle for similar or slightly better results than what the Scorpio could produce or cram more powerful tech into a 2018 launch and release the console with a high price in order to eclipse the Scorpio specs.
If Sony is wise they will wait for another 2-3 years and let technology get to a place (and price point) that would hail a worthwhile upgrade over anything on the market.
I will continue to bring up the differences in specs, its significant and we had 8 months of argument over just the gpu ps4 had over xb1 and how massive it is, now its all wasted for 4k? no, there are developers that think 4k is a waste anyway, can't say i agree. There was a twitter feed with like 6 devs that said they'd go CB in many cases and use the resources elsewhere, so some agreement is already there.
Doesn't matter what Phil says, he's not a programmer and MS went the extra mile not mandating it. Bill Gates, Phil, can say whatever they like, there will be CB games that show huge differences over pro, just the way it will be. Also 4k options on top of that with max textures in some cases.
That's normal. Games always get big boosts in performance when all you upgrade is the GPU power.. The RAM usage between 720p and 1080p is not game-breaking.
MS didn't mandate it cause 4K isn't possible in all games with Scorpio's specs.
If it was that big of a difference vs CB than all devs would be using it..its not and the power just isn't there.
PS4 vs XBO differences and I can't say this enough.
For picky people like me... that's significant but to the masses? Probably not.
That would be a terrible thing to try for 4k in all cases. For games that target 30fps like Destiny/rdr, I think 4k and 4k assets will happen on pc/scorpio for example. I also see a possible 1400p-1800p CB performance mode a possibility, which isn't bad.
Going by what the guy who made the prediction said it'll be over 10TF, while I doubt that's the case (or that it'll even happen) if it were true I'm sure plenty of people would skip both the pro and scorpio if they haven't made the jump from the base PS4 yet and wait for the new one.
Phil can tell 1st parties what to do that's not even a question, he's in charge. Most 3rd parties haven't even made an effort to push the Pro yet, there is still a lot more that can be done with that console so I doubt you'll see much effort put into Scorpio games by 3rd parties for the first year or so either.
Which goes back to my other point: If it is launching next year at 10TF worth of GPU compute expect it to be very expensive.
Nah, phil can't tell anyone what to do. He can make suggestions, but if an engine can't handle true 4k hes won't be swinging any axes. He'll listen to his people first. He can't come in and tell people to reconstruct a new engine just to hit a mark.
I think we will see most developers pushing pro/scorpio by the end of the year. They're not just ignore Scorpio when it comes out because it hasn't "paid its dues and waited" like pro. Every game that has a pro upgrade, will get scorpio, via patch within a few weeks or day 1.
Oh no doubt it would slow sales, then again MS announced a console a year and a half before it's launch and the X1 seemed to have it's best sales since launch.
Phil runs the entire games division, if he says "all games are 4K" then the studios have to do that, there is no debate to be had about that.
As far as scorpio being ignored, it's not about paying dues it's about which consoles will give them the best return on investment, neither Pro or Scorpio is having games built from the ground up for them but the Pro is close enough to the standard PS4 in basic development that it doesn't take much extra work to at least get some benefits. Scorpio uses a totally different memory configuration from the X1 yet the games that you are putting into the console are X1 based either with the X1 disc or the digital download, either way they have to take a few extra steps and put more effort into doing it.
I don't think either the Pro or Scorpio will be fully exploited by 3rd parties, they'll both have better looking/running games than the standard consoles but I don't think either one will have 3rd parties pushing them very hard, and for scorpio being that it's going to have a very small user base for quite a while it won't be worth the effort for 3rd parties to really put much into pushing it. Devs had dev kits for the Pro early last year yet most games that launched in the fall had nothing but CB resolution increases, some went the extra mile but most didn't, the scorpio will probably have the same issues.
Oh no doubt, that would be a premium product for sure. They could still potentially keep all 3 on the market, one entry level one mid level and one premium but at the same time it'll be hard to see how much use can be made of that 10TF if the games still have to run on a 1.8TF machine.
Running the games division is great, but when developers tell you they can't run it in 4k, then what? You don't release the game? Means nothing in that regard. Even the lack of a mandate is a massive indicator there.
I think what you say about Scorpio being different actually makes me think it'll get more custom work rather than just simple ports, good point. Even then if they're not "fully" exploited, up ports will be better on scorpio.
There is no "we can't do it in 4K' they can they'll just have to scale other things back. IF MS continues to say "4K, no excuse" and then their 1st party games aren't even 4K what's that say about the integrity of their marketing? the lack of a mandate for 3rd parties means nothing when talking about first party.
As far as scorpio getting "more custom work" it will being that it will have to since it's the X1 version of the game being converted but they aren't going to go above and beyond when they already have the PS4/Pro and standard X1 to deal with, all of which will have sold many times more consoles than the Scorpio has.
Find that quote about "no excuses" from Phil.
Also, are you saying its easier to just port the X1/ps4 version over to scorpio with no improvements? Seems ridicolous almost, spend the time to port it over yet no importments. The system already works like a "boost" mode anyway, look at how forza was up and running in 4k/60fps in 2days. I guess just port it over and downgrade it for the heck of it?
Who said "no improvements"? it's hard to have a discussion with someone who looks for ways to respond to things that weren't actually said or even implied.
As far as the quote it was in a video and I'm not going to go looking at a bunch of scorpio videos to find it, if you don't believe it that's fine, he may have said no compromises so I could be wrong on the exact wording but either way that's basically saying the same thing, 4K no compromises means native 4K.
I'm done talking about this with you, nothing against you but this conversation hasn't advanced since the first time we had it in another thread, it's the same old stuff back and forth.
I feel like your sort of pushing any idea that Scorpio won't get much love because its new, which doesn't make sense. The "no improvements" part had a question mark at the end, I didn't say you were implying that for certain. Also, If phil's words are so strong, can't he just boss everyone and tell them he wants custom work for Scorpio too, why does that only work for negative things like chewing up power using 4k "no excuses."?
Yeah, I couldn't find the quote, even then, big wigs at MS have said all kinds of crap over the years, means nothing without a mandate, even then its sketchy. Look at the mandate sony supposedly put on pro, "all ps4 games after X date will be pro upgraded."
Didn't happen.
That defeats the whole purpose of a console tho. Consoles are supposed to be cheap so the install base can be built. The ps4 pro already acts as a stop-gap console. We don't need another stop gap.
Like I said I don't think it's actually going to happen, just talking about what if and what the strategy behind it would be. In all honesty the base PS4 has sold to well to just dump it in a year or two, if they were to announce a new machine they'd have to make all games work on the newest machine and the oldest one which would mean that the power of the newest machine would likely never be fully exploited.