A Personal Story About Recoil Removed From Call of Duty 4

[Vapor]

Have you ever wondered why Call of Duty’s recoil on the gunplay is very low or practically non-existent? It all started with Call of Duty 4 Modern Warfare.

Prior to Infinity Ward’s announcement of the development of COD4, I was an avid COD2 player on PC. I loved the game. I used to LAN this game weekly with friends and we would stay up all night fragging one another in glorious games of deathmatch.

When IW announced COD4, my friends and I were thrilled of the new direction going into modern warfare. Now at the same time I was a huge fan of Battlefield 2, but COD was a different game in the point that it offered infantry-based only combat on a smaller scale. The game was still challenging to shoot the weapons in-game, maybe not as much as Counter-strike but it was still skillful.

Out comes the COD4 beta and my buddy and I were pretty active on the IW forums. We even made friends with the map maker “CompyG” who designed the maps Crash and Vacant. Short backstory on CompyG, he used to design Counter-strike maps, and if you look at Vacant, it has a lot of cs_office inspiration.

During the beta, my buddy and I would play nightly with CompyG. He was always a laid back guy who would answer any of our questions we had about COD4. One of the questions I had was about recoil or the lack of recoil to put it better. His response was he noticed the recoil being lower than usual from the previous COD game which was COD2. Now he was new to IW, had just gotten onto the team with COD4.

CompyG said he would ask around the studio and find out if recoil was gone intentionally because of it being a beta or what. A few nights later he and I were playing the COD4 beta and he said he found out about the recoil. He said the upper executives of IW and Activision both agreed that recoil wasn’t “fun” for the focus testers playing COD4. So an executive board decision was made by Activision for IW to remove recoil from multiplayer in COD4.

I was shocked. I asked CompyG what’s the chances of them changing it before full release and he said probably slim but he will definitely take the feedback from my buddy and I and give it to the team.

I went to midnight launch for COD4 and hurried home to pop the game in. I was excited to see what they changed from the beta for full release and to my surprise it was very minimal. They fixed some rooftops that were previously accessible and blocked them from allowing players to access them, best example are the houses in the map Overgrown.

I fired up single player and noticed that in the training mission (the very beginning of the game) on the firing range, the G36C had noticeable vertical lift recoil if you held down the trigger for a length of time. I was happy to see this, I thought…maybe IW added recoil back into the game??? Nope. As soon as I went into multiplayer, it was the same as the beta. The best weapons to see this in are the SAW, G36C, M4 and the MP5. All of these weapons in single player have recoils that are managed by the player’s shooting, however, in multiplayer the recoil is severely lowered or removed all together on weapons.

A few days after launch, I had added the VP of IW, he posted his gamertag on the forums and had accepted my friend request. I had the opportunity to play a few games with him in his party and I politely asked him if I could ask him a question. He said, sure! Naturally I asked about the recoil and he said, recoil wasn’t fun and they wanted to make COD4 a fun game to play.

Take from this story what you will, but that made me cringe and while COD4 was a huge success, it’s unfortunate that they removed what once made the COD series a skillful entertaining game. Each COD game after COD4 I have always hoped they would add recoil back into the series but to this day, it’s still not in multiplayer but continues to be in the single player campaign.

If anyone has any questions, feel free to ask!

Here's some screens I took a while back comparing the M249 SAW in multiplayer to the single player campaign in COD4:

Multiplayer: firing full auto on the M249 SAW

Single player: firing full auto on the M249 SAW

Single player: G36C from the FNG mission, first one in the game

Multiplayer: G36C in multiplayer

 

[IdleHands]

As I've said countless times in countless threads and YT comments.

COD is a dumbed down arcade shooter designed to make 12 years olds feel like they're good at FPS so they'll keep buying the games and DLC. This will never change, until COD dies it will remain a dumbed down arcade shooter that any 80 year old grandma can pick up and get a kill.

 

[Vapor]

As I've said countless times in countless threads and YT comments.

COD is a dumbed down arcade shooter designed to make 12 years olds feel like they're good at FPS so they'll keep buying the games and DLC. This will never change, until COD dies it will remain a dumbed down arcade shooter that any 80 year old grandma can pick up and get a kill.

What boggles me is why did COD1, COD2 and COD3WAW, all had recoil in both single player and multiplayer. How were the focus testers in those games having "fun" but in COD4 they weren't?

Activision must have seen something with the effects of the recoil on the focus testers (I'm sure they have a wide range of ages testing the game) and took a gamble on removing it from multiplayer, yet keeping in single player is also laughable because single player is where the majority of gamers play COD games.

 

[Qbert]

What boggles me is why did COD1, COD2 and COD3WAW, all had recoil in both single player and multiplayer. How were the focus testers in those games having "fun" but in COD4 they weren't?

do you really need to ask that question? Consider that the CoD games that have much less recoil tend to sell more. It's pretty easy to see why they went with the decision to reduce recoil so much.

Like Idle said, it makes the noob majority feel like they're great players. Feeling great at playing means they have more fun. More fun equals more sales.


You pretty much said it in the first post.....

He said the upper executives of IW and Activision both agreed that recoil wasn’t “fun” for the focus testers playing COD4.

 

[Vapor]

do you really need to ask that question? Consider that the CoD games that have much less recoil tend to sell more. It's pretty easy to see why they went with the decision to reduce recoil so much.

Like Idle said, it makes the noob majority feel like they're great players. Feeling great at playing means they have more fun. More fun equals more sales.


You pretty much said it in the first post.....

My question though is why did COD2 or COD3 not have recoil removed? What was it about COD4 that made them suddenly remove it? Was it something that was eventually planned?

I can't imagine the focus testing efforts being drastically different from COD2 to COD4.

I saw the subtle changes in gaming starting with Halo 2 and COD2, the motion-sense radar, red dot bleeps on mini maps, no fall damage, regenerating health, etc. Those were subtle in a way, for some they were major changes, i.e., no health packs in COD2 versus COD1 having them, but same went for Halo 2 compared to Halo Combat Evolved.

Again though, the removal of recoil from multiplayer but keeping it in single player still boggles me. Most gamers who stay away from multiplayer for the very reason of it not being "fun" for them because they may not be very good at competitive pvp gaming, they stick to single player, so in essence, IW/Activision made single player more challenging than multiplayer....why? LOL.

 

[Qbert]

My question though is why did COD2 or COD3 not have recoil removed? What was it about COD4 that made them suddenly remove it? Was it something that was eventually planned?

I can't imagine the focus testing efforts being drastically different from COD2 to COD4.

I saw the subtle changes in gaming starting with Halo 2 and COD2, the motion-sense radar, red dot bleeps on mini maps, no fall damage, regenerating health, etc. Those were subtle in a way, for some they were major changes, i.e., no health packs in COD2 versus COD1 having them, but same went for Halo 2 compared to Halo Combat Evolved.

Again though, the removal of recoil from multiplayer but keeping it in single player still boggles me. Most gamers who stay away from multiplayer for the very reason of it not being "fun" for them because they may not be very good at competitive pvp gaming, they stick to single player, so in essence, IW/Activision made single player more challenging than multiplayer....why? LOL.

Well, as far as CoD2 goes, that was also after coming from CoD1, which was a pc game, and recoil is easier to handle on pc games. As for why for CoD3, that was treyarch, and their game at the time was really different from the core CoD games.

As for sp versus mp, again, that's pretty obvious. In sp, you have 2 things going on there.
1. Not everyone cares about sp.
2. Heavy recoil in sp doesn't really affect how a gamer enjoys the game as the ai is nowhere near as vicious as real players.


We can't sit here and ask "why" the older games had the recoil but the newer ones don't. The answer is simple. As the years pass by, developers learn more and more what the majority want. it's like asking "why did R6:Vegas become a dumbed down game compared o R6".....simple, more people enjoy the dumbed down game.





In the end, it boils down to sales....they're going to cater the game to what the majority wants. This is why there's stupid things like dolphin diving, bunny hopping, quick scopping, etc.....it's what the gamers want.

 

[Vapor]

Well, as far as CoD2 goes, that was also after coming from CoD1, which was a pc game, and recoil is easier to handle on pc games. As for why for CoD3, that was treyarch, and their game at the time was really different from the core CoD games.

As for sp versus mp, again, that's pretty obvious. In sp, you have 2 things going on there.
1. Not everyone cares about sp.
2. Heavy recoil in sp doesn't really affect how a gamer enjoys the game as the ai is nowhere near as vicious as real players.

We can't sit here and ask "why" the older games had the recoil but the newer ones don't. The answer is simple. As the years pass by, developers learn more and more what the majority want. it's like asking "why did R6:Vegas become a dumbed down game compared o R6".....simple, more people enjoy the dumbed down game.

In the end, it boils down to sales....they're going to cater the game to what the majority wants. This is why there's stupid things like dolphin diving, bunny hopping, quick scopping, etc.....it's what the gamers want.

Oh how I hate dolphin diving.

 

[Qbert]

Ugggg, there's so much crap I dislike about CoD, but at the same time, it's a game I love.

 

[IdleHands]

I can't imagine the focus testing efforts being drastically different from COD2 to COD4.

Along with the points that Qbert made there was one pretty big change between these two games, the Xbox 360. When it came out COD2 really gained in popularity, in fact I seem to recall it was the system seller that first year of it's life. So when COD4 came around I'm sure Acti (or whomever they hired) took a look at their key demographics and based their focus tests on those types of people.

Console gamers. Hence the change in MP mechanics.

The only reason I can see it being kept in SP is perhaps they felt it would add to the realism to help immerse players in that world? /shrug

 

[Flight School]

Game is what it is. Get over it people.

 

[Lucid Rifter]

As I've said countless times in countless threads and YT comments.

COD is a dumbed down arcade shooter designed to make 12 years olds feel like they're good at FPS so they'll keep buying the games and DLC. This will never change, until COD dies it will remain a dumbed down arcade shooter that any 80 year old grandma can pick up and get a kill.

lol A bit harsh but true. I'd love to see everyone play without aim assist too. Death threats from fans to devs would increase dramatically I'd imagine.

 

[Qbert]

lol A bit harsh but true. I'd love to see everyone play without aim assist too. Death threats from fans to devs would increase dramatically I'd imagine.

I play without aim assist.







on pc.

 

[Intellivision]

Personal story, in every CoD I play, my k/d ranges anywhere from 1.80 in CoD 4 to 3.83 in Black Ops 1. Had about a 3.70-3.80 in MW2 as well. Could never hit 4.00. W/L ratio hovers in the 60-70% range despite playing with random moronic teammates most of the time. Even had a 3.20 k/d with a loud and heavy DP28 in WaW (the most underrated gun of all time).

You'll never play a shooter with so many gamers running down the middle of the map begging to be shot, despite:

1. You typically get killed in 3 shots (or 1 good sniper shot)
2. Unlike old school shooters, you can't blaze around the map at 100 mph or jump high into the air to avoid gunfire more easily
3. Just about every map has second story windows giving gamers an advantage in viewpoint

Yet, the meat grinder persists in every CoD! LOL. Biut great for W/L and k/d ratios! Yeah!

Despite getting shot up over and over again, 99% of gamers won't change up their load out or tactics to try something different

 

[Z A C K]

I must just be really terrible because I rarely have a positive K/D ratio.

 

[Flight School]

I must just be really terrible because I rarely have a positive K/D ratio.

Eh Cod is half connection half bulls*** half adapting to people playing like pusses half reaction times. 200

 

[Flight School]

Personal story, in every CoD I play, my k/d ranges anywhere from 1.80 in CoD 4 to 3.83 in Black Ops 1. Had about a 3.70-3.80 in MW2 as well. Could never hit 4.00. W/L ratio hovers in the 60-70% range despite playing with random moronic teammates most of the time. Even had a 3.20 k/d with a loud and heavy DP28 in WaW (the most underrated gun of all time).

You'll never play a shooter with so many gamers running down the middle of the map begging to be shot, despite:

1. You typically get killed in 3 shots (or 1 good sniper shot)
2. Unlike old school shooters, you can't blaze around the map at 100 mph or jump high into the air to avoid gunfire more easily
3. Just about every map has second story windows giving gamers an advantage in viewpoint

Yet, the meat grinder persists in every CoD! LOL. Biut great for W/L and k/d ratios! Yeah!

Despite getting shot up over and over again, 99% of gamers won't change up their load out or tactics to try something different

I'd love to get a shot at playing you...

 

[Intellivision]

I must just be really terrible because I rarely have a positive K/D ratio.

It's not hard. Just play a style that you are comfortable with and equip your guy with gear that suits that style.... runner, sniper, area camper (like me), total camper (hide in a corner at 45 degrees). Each style has subsets of main gear to use to (runner = shottie or SMG).

In Black Ops a few years back, I had an M16, claymores, flak jacket, warlord, tac mask. Guys would be tossing gas and nades at me and it barely did anything. That's why I had a 3.80 k/d. All they had to do was have alternate classes that have an RPG to more easily blow me out from my spot (direct shot instead of inaccurate arcing grenades), or stick me with a semtex. Or just have a few guys gang up on me and toss nades at the same time as flak jacket can only withstand so much explosions at once. But the number of times someone used two brain cells and did that was no more than the number of fingers I have on my two hands. LOL

For some free kills, just toss bouncing betties or claymores, don't run in the middle of the map and you'll surely die less and get 2-3 free kills a game as most gamers don't use Sit Rep or Engineer to detect anti-personnel devices. They just run into them. I'd estimate that out of all the CoD I've played over the years.... (1,000s of matches worth), only maybe 10% of gamers use Sit rep/Engineer. I played World at War a ton, and on the online dossier (which they stopped updating a year or two later), I had something like 2,000 bouncing betty kills alone.

Even if you are a run a gunner, just plant betties or claymores in odd spots and do your running away from it and watch as enemies respawn behind you and run into them. It's actually a benefit to do this sometimes as guys like me plant them in predictable places, while a runner planting them in random spots is unpredictable. And if you prefer running, try to stick to the perimeter of the map. Take your pick clockwise or counter-clockwise, but try not to aimless run in the middle where you can get flank from all directions. You want to die fast? Run in the middle of the map Carrier. All that rubble does nothing as you'll get shot from every angle you can think of.

Oh, and a silencer attachment is a must no matter what style you play. Most important attachment by far.

 

[Z A C K]

My problem with shooters is I'm just not patient at all. I guess I'd be considered a runner? I just run around as fast as I can looking for a fight. If I see someone first there's a good chance I'll get a kill, but I just always end up getting blind sided.

 

[Qbert]

My problem with shooters is I'm just not patient at all. I guess I'd be considered a runner? I just run around as fast as I can looking for a fight. If I see someone first there's a good chance I'll get a kill, but I just always end up getting blind sided.

Sounds like my cousin. Hey Joey....is that you?

 

[Kerosene31]

First off, burst firing is not some uber elite ninja skill that people couldn't learn in a heartbeat. It doesn't turn the game into some elite skill fest. Ultimately, the guy shooting back at you has the same recoil level, so unless he's some noob mashing the trigger, the difference is little.

Adding recoil can also have undesired effects. More recoil means that a gun basically has less range. For example I run around a corner and a camper at medium range is prone. I have to burst fire now because of recoil, but he has less because he's prone. He now probably can get his bullets on me faster while I pause to burst. Making it more realistic just rewarded camping. It would also make sniping worse for one hit kill guns. In BO2, I can go head to head at medium range with noob snipers with my assault rifle. Add recoil and suddenly you make ARs that much less useful.

Not that I have a problem adding recoil, but it wouldn't turn COD into some elite skill based shooter. COD4 was a different game much more because of the very different map design. You had to play those maps and manage choke points. Now, we get simple mazes where everyone just runs around. The recoil didn't do that.

 

[Flight School]

Silencer is not a must lollllll

 

[Vapor]

First off, burst firing is not some uber elite ninja skill that people couldn't learn in a heartbeat. It doesn't turn the game into some elite skill fest. Ultimately, the guy shooting back at you has the same recoil level, so unless he's some noob mashing the trigger, the difference is little.

Adding recoil can also have undesired effects. More recoil means that a gun basically has less range. For example I run around a corner and a camper at medium range is prone. I have to burst fire now because of recoil, but he has less because he's prone. He now probably can get his bullets on me faster while I pause to burst. Making it more realistic just rewarded camping. It would also make sniping worse for one hit kill guns. In BO2, I can go head to head at medium range with noob snipers with my assault rifle. Add recoil and suddenly you make ARs that much less useful.

Not that I have a problem adding recoil, but it wouldn't turn COD into some elite skill based shooter. COD4 was a different game much more because of the very different map design. You had to play those maps and manage choke points. Now, we get simple mazes where everyone just runs around. The recoil didn't do that.

Prone should give you a risk vs reward, risk being prone and not able to move, and reward being less recoil for the risk. If you're standing (not crouching) you should have the max recoil penalty, but a good shot whether it be semi-auto or full-auto should always win at the end of the day regardless of the other player being prone with no recoil penalty.

I'm going to disagree with your post because in COD1 and COD2, I never saw players have a problem managing recoil, in fact, there were some very insane players who were so good at aiming, they only needed one shot to the head on most rifles, rarely needing to manage recoil, basically how pro CS players play, and they don't have problems in that game.

COD used to be a very skillful game in regards to the shooting element, which in my opinion, if you're going to have a shooter, the actual core part of the game, the shooting, should demand the skill.

 

[IdleHands]

Eh Cod is half connection half bulls*** half adapting to people playing like pusses half reaction times. 200

50% connection
30% tier whoring (early FAL + fire selector w/toughness, dexterity, lightweight in BO2)
20% "Skill" as in good reflexes and map knowledge. However, I don't give the map knowledge part to those that find one spot, plant F&F explosives then camp a window waiting for people to run into their LOS.

My problem with shooters is I'm just not patient at all. I guess I'd be considered a runner? I just run around as fast as I can looking for a fight. If I see someone first there's a good chance I'll get a kill, but I just always end up getting blind sided.

Sounds like you should be playing Domination/Headquarters (COD) or Rush/Conquest Domination (BF). TDM is full. I mean FUUULLLLLL OF poor FPS players that find one good spot and camp it waiting for others that actually play the game to move into their LOS. Sure, there are those types in objective modes but not nearly as bad.

First off, burst firing is not some uber elite ninja skill that people couldn't learn in a heartbeat..

Learning to compensate for recoil takes practice, a lot of it. It takes focus as well. Here's the thing though, you're right, recoil alone won't really change much. This is why I like BF, it has recoil, bloom and deviation. So you not only have to learn how to compensate for recoil, but also how to minimize or counter bloom and deviation.

In BF3 and 4 it actually feels like I'm handling a weapon because I have to, well... handle the weapon. In COD even the highest recoil weapons (ex: the scorpion) it's as simple as aim for the chest, let it rip and they'll die by the time your xhair is to their head. In BF there's not only vertical recoil but horizontal as well so it's not just a matter of holding/pulling straight down, but to the side as well and when a target is moving horizontally on your screen it becomes even more difficult.

Hey DICE I can do that in COD as well with the C4.

Yeah, well Dice would have been smarter to show a situation where C4 was used to blow up a vehicle or level a building for the kills.

 

[Intellivision]

My problem with shooters is I'm just not patient at all. I guess I'd be considered a runner? I just run around as fast as I can looking for a fight. If I see someone first there's a good chance I'll get a kill, but I just always end up getting blind sided.

If you're getting blindsided then it means you are running around in open areas and getting nailed from various directions. Best thing to limit deaths as a runner is to take the perimeter route and plant a betty or claymore behind you at a choke point so any enemies trying get you from behind may have to go through that explosive. Trust me, I've played so many matches of CoD and hardly any use Sit Rep or Engineer. And few take corners slowly. Most just run around. Don't be one of those easy pickings.

Guys like me are looking for runners strolling down the middle of the map like chickens with their heads cut off. We tend to stick to the edges of the map, so if you're always going to be a runner, run around the edges of the map and you'll get the jump on the guys blindsiding you.

A good example is Havana in Black Ops. I'll hole up at the ends of the map looking for guys running down or across the street. Easy pickings.

Regardless of how well you do, just have fun. It's just a game. As crazy as it sounds, there are lots of angry guys out there quitting and backing out every other match the second they go 0-2 to start the match. Men end matches. Babies bail ship.

 

[Viktor]

This series went down hill after 1 and 2.

 

[Flight School]

This series went down hill after 1 and 2.

It's pretty easy to find games on COD1 still. Just note that everybody left is basically a god at the game.

 

[Mr Bigglesworth]

the franchise continues to sell like hotcakes so I'm not sure what the problem is here?

 

[Z A C K]

Some people don't like the taste of the hotcakes. Some people think it's got a bit too much syrup if you know what I mean.

 

[Flight School]

Some people don't like the taste of the hotcakes. Some people think it's got a bit too much syrup if you know what I mean.

Sometimes I just like butter on muh hawtcakes.

 

[Kerosene31]

Prone should give you a risk vs reward, risk being prone and not able to move, and reward being less recoil for the risk. If you're standing (not crouching) you should have the max recoil penalty, but a good shot whether it be semi-auto or full-auto should always win at the end of the day regardless of the other player being prone with no recoil penalty.

I'm going to disagree with your post because in COD1 and COD2, I never saw players have a problem managing recoil, in fact, there were some very insane players who were so good at aiming, they only needed one shot to the head on most rifles, rarely needing to manage recoil, basically how pro CS players play, and they don't have problems in that game.

COD used to be a very skillful game in regards to the shooting element, which in my opinion, if you're going to have a shooter, the actual core part of the game, the shooting, should demand the skill.

You are greatly oversimplifying the evolution of the COD franchise over many, many years.

Adding recoil back into the next game would do little to put it back the way you want it.

You said it yourself, ultimately it shouldn't matter recoil or not. Skill will always win.

You say you see players having problems "managing recoil"? Who? The only issue is that the COD community has exploded recently and players simply don't learn how to burst fire because they don't need to. That doesn't mean that they couldn't very easily. It isn't some elite skill that only the top 1% of players can figure out. You shorten your bursts and/or aim low. In games with recoil you simply aim for the knees or the crotch and let the recoil do the work for you. It isn't hard. It just makes getting headshots a bit harder.

COD uses range and recoil as part of the way to "balance" out weapons. Range is damage drop off and is really only to differentiate the SMGs from ARs, etc. It really doesn't differentiate between weapons within the class much.

So, the true measure of range for a gun in COD is often recoil. You can have a high range gun with high damage, but if it has high recoil, nobody will use it for its intended purpose. Recoil really equals range.

Remember the popular ACR from MW2? It had average stats at best, except it had no recoil. This made it a beast at range. Who cares what the damage is if you can hold down fire and not let up? The guy who's trying to burst fire is going to take longer and going to lose more often than not.

So, most players switch to low recoil guns. Not because they are "noobs" but because they are the best guns. I know how to burst fire very well, but I go with the no recoil guns because they are almost always better.

Map design (something people really forget) is a big factor in how a game plays. The maps in COD are simple and have many directions to attack from. There's very few chokepoints like there were in past games. In COD4, you could spend the entire round coming from the same spawn, fighting over a choke point. Now, you can flip the spawns in the first 30 seconds without ever even seeing an enemy. Map management is a lost art. Newer players don't know how to play the map.