Blizzard Employees Share Salaries In Revolt Over Wage Disparities

It’s a double edge sword. You know what is worst than pay low salary? Outsourcing.
The industry is notorious for outsourcing to lower wage countries like chains and India.

With a snap of a finger, they could fire all the employees unhappy and outsource their work to China. They already outsource diablo mobile to Chinese film.

I work in a major corporation, and most of us are just happy with a job, despite pay cut. Some of these people are living in ala land.

A few years ago, we had lay-off. We had a meeting and Ben boss of the division drove his company sponsored Merc S class( the top range ) to our office said we were too expensive. People asked what happened when we have more projects and now short for people. He replied with a straight face, give the project to one of the dozen possible locations.....

Do I think some CEOs are overpaid. Yes. But one has to be careful. The sad truth is most people can be replace, often by someone cheaper.
 
Corporations always has A 2 tier system. The untouchable and the expandable.

The untouchable that must be paid enormous sum of $ to help their “talent” and the expandable that should be paid as low as legally possible & replace them if they are unhappy.

I work in a major corporation so I know. My boss act just like Kotika or whatever his name.

He goes around shaking top leaders hand include Mutter Merkel, also show up with a smile And talk about how he cares. When ask why not him and his top executives take a pay cut to help. He said he worried the executives will leave for other companies and their pay are decided by shareholders. I am fairly sure if they ask for pay cut, the shareholders will not reject. All bs.

But many corporations, and especially gaming are increased with cheap labor, and employee are at mercy of being replace by someone cheaper from another country.

Many tech companies, google, Microsoft, as well as companies like naughty dogs heavily use outsourcing: with work going to India, China or other cheaper locations.

If not they just hire the same people in Silicon Valley. While they virtual signal about diversity inclusion and gender equality. Behind your back, they are giving your job to foreigners.

As long as they keep hiring cheap outsourcers, and we allow that, the poor developers making games have little leverage.

Maybe it’s time to ask how much of their work is given to foreigners, and support games studio make effort to use more if not all locals.
 
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Companies are realizing that there's a lot less cost savings with outsourcing. IT is still a skill that requires training and experience.

I don't know if there are many game studios outside North America/Europe.

For skilled labor, companies can't outsource without taking a big hit. Lots of them found that out over the past decade or so. Sure you can cut your salary in half for a year or two, but then the product you get out goes to crap.

Modern coding is done with teams and with quality control built in. Those overseas coding farms aren't worth it except for the simpler tasks. The technical debt that piles up eats any savings away and makes everyone angry at the poor quality.
 
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Kerosene31 said:
Companies are realizing that there's a lot less cost savings with outsourcing. IT is still a skill that requires training and experience.

I don't know if there are many game studios outside North America/Europe.

For skilled labor, companies can't outsource without taking a big hit. Lots of them found that out over the past decade or so. Sure you can cut your salary in half for a year or two, but then the product you get out goes to crap.

Modern coding is done with teams and with quality control built-in. Those overseas coding farms aren't worth it except for the simpler tasks. The technical debt that piles up eats any savings away and makes everyone angry at the poor quality.
Click to expand...
Maybe 10 years ago, but a lot has changed since then.

If you think oversea or imported labor is a lot worse if at all compared to Americans. My Indian Friends openly brags about how the US will always need foreign labor from India because they are BETTER, not cheaper, BETTER. I have read there are schools where the majority ain't proficiency in math or reading. If outsourced is an issue, like you said, well, then just hired the people they outsourced to, to work at Silicon Valley. Who care what they think you ask, sure., but surely the thoughts of top companies that hire people matters right?

Well look at this report from this year (ignore the politics)
https://www.voanews.com/silicon-valley-technology/silicon-valley-worker-pipeline-cut

Silicon Valley’s foreign-born workers mostly hail from India and China. More than 60 percent of those working in computer, mathematics and engineering fields in Silicon Valley are foreign born, according to the 2020 Silicon Valley Index, produced by Joint Venture.

Tech companies have argued that they need foreign-born workers – and an expansion of the temporary work visa program -- because there are not enough U.S.-born workers with the skills for key roles. Opponents of the temporary visa say that the industry and large tech consultants turn to foreign workers to keep wages down.

Cutting off the ability of skilled workers to come to the U.S. will hurt the industry’s ability to stay competitive, Hancock said.

“If you talk to anyone, they will tell you we need talent and it's not coming through our own
------------------------

You do not have to be xenophobic to see there is a serious problem where 60% of mid-class professional jobs went to foreigner born & tech companies openly said you are not producing enough talent.
 
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starseeker said:
Maybe 10 years ago, but a lot has changed since then.

If you think oversea or imported labor is a lot worse if at all compared to Americans. My Indian Friends openly brags about how the US will always need foreign labor from India because they are BETTER, not cheaper, BETTER. I have read there are schools where the majority ain't proficiency in math or reading. If outsourced is an issue, like you said, well, then just hired the people they outsourced to, to work at Silicon Valley. Who care what they think you ask, sure., but surely the thoughts of top companies that hire people matters right?

Well look at this report from this year (ignore the politics)
https://www.voanews.com/silicon-valley-technology/silicon-valley-worker-pipeline-cut

Silicon Valley’s foreign-born workers mostly hail from India and China. More than 60 percent of those working in computer, mathematics and engineering fields in Silicon Valley are foreign born, according to the 2020 Silicon Valley Index, produced by Joint Venture.

Tech companies have argued that they need foreign-born workers – and an expansion of the temporary work visa program -- because there are not enough U.S.-born workers with the skills for key roles. Opponents of the temporary visa say that the industry and large tech consultants turn to foreign workers to keep wages down.

Cutting off the ability of skilled workers to come to the U.S. will hurt the industry’s ability to stay competitive, Hancock said.

“If you talk to anyone, they will tell you we need talent and it's not coming through our own
Click to expand...

I can conur, to a degree....my gf is an Asian import
 
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karmakid said:
I can conur, to a degree....my gf is an Asian import
Click to expand...
I think immigration itself is not an issue, everyone or their ancestors are immigrants at some point. It's crazy if you said you can not have immigrants, but the other end is also an issue when the companies & nation take the easy way out fill half or more of their workforce with immigrants due to failing education system that can't produce enough talents, jobs that can lift many existing citizens out of poverty & lower classes.
 
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starseeker said:
Maybe 10 years ago, but a lot has changed since then.

If you think oversea or imported labor is a lot worse if at all compared to Americans. My Indian Friends openly brags about how the US will always need foreign labor from India because they are BETTER, not cheaper, BETTER. I have read there are schools where the majority ain't proficiency in math or reading. If outsourced is an issue, like you said, well, then just hired the people they outsourced to, to work at Silicon Valley. Who care what they think you ask, sure., but surely the thoughts of top companies that hire people matters right?

Well look at this report from this year (ignore the politics)
https://www.voanews.com/silicon-valley-technology/silicon-valley-worker-pipeline-cut

Silicon Valley’s foreign-born workers mostly hail from India and China. More than 60 percent of those working in computer, mathematics and engineering fields in Silicon Valley are foreign born, according to the 2020 Silicon Valley Index, produced by Joint Venture.

Tech companies have argued that they need foreign-born workers – and an expansion of the temporary work visa program -- because there are not enough U.S.-born workers with the skills for key roles. Opponents of the temporary visa say that the industry and large tech consultants turn to foreign workers to keep wages down.

Cutting off the ability of skilled workers to come to the U.S. will hurt the industry’s ability to stay competitive, Hancock said.

“If you talk to anyone, they will tell you we need talent and it's not coming through our own
------------------------

You do not have to be xenophobic to see there is a serious problem where 60% of mid-class professional jobs went to foreigner born & tech companies openly said you are not producing enough talent.
Click to expand...

Some of it is that they want to bring over workers from other contries because they think they will work for less money.

Problem too in the tech sector here is that it can be difficult to get a entry level position because most everyone wants experience. Tech jobs here tend to make growth within them nigh impossible.
 
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Spiritech said:
Some of it is that they want to bring over workers from other contries because they think they will work for less money.

Problem too in the tech sector here is that it can be difficult to get a entry level position because most everyone wants experience. Tech jobs here tend to make growth within them nigh impossible.
Click to expand...
Which is again another issue. There is a video of an ex google employee citing the abuse/exploit by Tech companies for foreign workers due to them held to ransom by their work permit. So they are being forced to work longer & often less pay, which is modern-day slavery.
 
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starseeker said:
I think immigration itself is not an issue, everyone or their ancestors are immigrants at some point. It's crazy if you said you can not have immigrants, but the other end is also an issue when the companies & nation take the easy way out fill half or more of their workforce with immigrants due to failing education system that can't produce enough talents, jobs that can lift many existing citizens out of poverty & lower classes.
Click to expand...

true...but she cane here under a sponsorship from her job, no intention of meeting me :( :p

starseeker said:
Which is again another issue. There is a video of an ex google employee citing the abuse/exploit by Tech companies for foreign workers due to them held to ransom by their work permit. So they are being forced to work longer & often less pay, which is modern-day slavery.
Click to expand...

they’re called interns ;) but yeah, that sucks. An old coworker of mine worked at amazon can vouch for that
 
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karmakid said:
true...but she cane here under a sponsorship from her job, no intention of meeting me :( :p



they’re called interns ;) but yeah, that sucks. An old coworker of mine worked at amazon can vouch for that
Click to expand...
Lucky her.
 
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starseeker said:
Maybe 10 years ago, but a lot has changed since then.

If you think oversea or imported labor is a lot worse if at all compared to Americans. My Indian Friends openly brags about how the US will always need foreign labor from India because they are BETTER, not cheaper, BETTER. I have read there are schools where the majority ain't proficiency in math or reading. If outsourced is an issue, like you said, well, then just hired the people they outsourced to, to work at Silicon Valley. Who care what they think you ask, sure., but surely the thoughts of top companies that hire people matters right?

Well look at this report from this year (ignore the politics)
https://www.voanews.com/silicon-valley-technology/silicon-valley-worker-pipeline-cut

Silicon Valley’s foreign-born workers mostly hail from India and China. More than 60 percent of those working in computer, mathematics and engineering fields in Silicon Valley are foreign born, according to the 2020 Silicon Valley Index, produced by Joint Venture.

Tech companies have argued that they need foreign-born workers – and an expansion of the temporary work visa program -- because there are not enough U.S.-born workers with the skills for key roles. Opponents of the temporary visa say that the industry and large tech consultants turn to foreign workers to keep wages down.

Cutting off the ability of skilled workers to come to the U.S. will hurt the industry’s ability to stay competitive, Hancock said.

“If you talk to anyone, they will tell you we need talent and it's not coming through our own
------------------------

You do not have to be xenophobic to see there is a serious problem where 60% of mid-class professional jobs went to foreigner born & tech companies openly said you are not producing enough talent.
Click to expand...

Where someone is born doesn't matter - where they are educated matters. People in skilled jobs like that are educated in the west. We train the talent here, and it stays here.

Outsourcing only works if people live in low cost areas. Bring someone over to silicon valley and they'll need a living wage for that area.

I work with tons of people who are originally born elsewhere, but they are American now, and they live in my neighborhood and demand the same salary I do.

This may seem odd in other countries, but this is what America is. We're actually stealing the world's talent. :)

The reason for shortages of skills is simple - education costs are exploding. Back when I was young, a 4 year degree in IT was a no-brainer. I could work my way through without much debt and basically never worry about finding a job. A kid today is looking at 5-6 digit debt. That's a very different look than I had when education was much, much cheaper.

On top of education, the cost of living and housing is exploding too. You can't afford to live in silicon valley to take anyone's jobs. These big tech cities are a bubble about to burst. They make $100,000 but can't afford a house because the cost is so high. I joke about them getting "only" a 10% raise, but they need that just to make rent. Meanwhile, in a different part of the country, I make much less, but have my house paid off already.
 
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Kerosene31 said:
Where someone is born doesn't matter - where they are educated matters. People in skilled jobs like that are educated in the west. We train the talent here, and it stays here.

Outsourcing only works if people live in low cost areas. Bring someone over to silicon valley and they'll need a living wage for that area.

I work with tons of people who are originally born elsewhere, but they are American now, and they live in my neighborhood and demand the same salary I do.

This may seem odd in other countries, but this is what America is. We're actually stealing the world's talent. :)

The reason for shortages of skills is simple - education costs are exploding. Back when I was young, a 4 year degree in IT was a no-brainer. I could work my way through without much debt and basically never worry about finding a job. A kid today is looking at 5-6 digit debt. That's a very different look than I had when education was much, much cheaper.

On top of education, the cost of living and housing is exploding too. You can't afford to live in silicon valley to take anyone's jobs. These big tech cities are a bubble about to burst. They make $100,000 but can't afford a house because the cost is so high. I joke about them getting "only" a 10% raise, but they need that just to make rent. Meanwhile, in a different part of the country, I make much less, but have my house paid off already.
Click to expand...

yeah, tuition has gone up like over 200 percent in Cali, since the 90s. But pay hasn’t touched what 15, in Cali.. I don’t lo where I’m going with this, I’m bore whilst waiting on my tires to get rotated lol
 
Kerosene31 said:
Where someone is born doesn't matter - where they are educated matters. People in skilled jobs like that are educated in the west. We train the talent here, and it stays here.
Click to expand...
Many are not educated in the US. There are good universities outside the US & west
This is the first result of a programming competition via google. NONE of the top 5 winners (2015) is from a Westen University

https://www.acm.org/icpc-winners
ACM ICPC 2015 World Finals
First-place – St. Petersburg National Research University of IT, Mechanics and Optics (The only competitor to solve all 13 problems!)
Second place – Moscow State University
Third place – University of Tokyo
Fourth place – Tsinghua University
Fifth place – Peking University

https://www.businessinsider.com/us-ranks-27th-for-healthcare-and-education-2018-9?r=DE&IR=T

US rank 27 in education.

When it comes to education, the nation fares even worse. The latest findings from the Pew Research Center have the US in 38th place out of 71 countries when it comes to math scores and 24th place when it comes to science.

The report said a decline in spending is the main cause, with drop of 3% & an increase of 1% of students. I think there is certainly has an impact, but I highly doubt its the main reason or only. There must be deeper problems but I am not an expert.

Also, the article also said US does still spend MORE per students than most of its peers, so the argument of no sufficient funding isn't particularly strong.

Michio Kaku: US has the worst educational system known to science


In the video, Dr. Michioo said the US produces graduates comparable to 3rd world countries, & the reason it did not fail is H1B visa.

For sure, if talented people wanted to go to US, but when there is a massive problem in education when so much of the talent pool needs to be imported.

Anyway, in the same video, he also mentions that many of these people are returning home to build their own Silicon Valley.
 
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We unfortunately have had an assault on intelligence and have glorified being dumb here in the U.S.. Also we have little respect for teachers here and don't care to give them anything they need to do their jobs well. Plus our government likes to give money to for profit schools and while some are very good others are complete scams.
 
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starseeker said:
Many are not educated in the US. There are good universities outside the US & west
This is the first result of a programming competition via google. NONE of the top 5 winners (2015) is from a Westen University

https://www.acm.org/icpc-winners
ACM ICPC 2015 World Finals
First-place – St. Petersburg National Research University of IT, Mechanics and Optics (The only competitor to solve all 13 problems!)
Second place – Moscow State University
Third place – University of Tokyo
Fourth place – Tsinghua University
Fifth place – Peking University

https://www.businessinsider.com/us-ranks-27th-for-healthcare-and-education-2018-9?r=DE&IR=T

US rank 27 in education.

When it comes to education, the nation fares even worse. The latest findings from the Pew Research Center have the US in 38th place out of 71 countries when it comes to math scores and 24th place when it comes to science.

The report said a decline in spending is the main cause, with drop of 3% & an increase of 1% of students. I think there is certainly has an impact, but I highly doubt its the main reason or only. There must be deeper problems but I am not an expert.

Also, the article also said US does still spend MORE per students than most of its peers, so the argument of no sufficient funding isn't particularly strong.

Michio Kaku: US has the worst educational system known to science


In the video, Dr. Michioo said the US produces graduates comparable to 3rd world countries, & the reason it did not fail is H1B visa.

For sure, if talented people wanted to go to US, but when there is a massive problem in education when so much of the talent pool needs to be imported.

Anyway, in the same video, he also mentions that many of these people are returning home to build their own Silicon Valley.
Click to expand...


In Michio we trust :)

but there’s third world countries out their who have much better schooling than they do here, in the states. I know people with kids from the phils and mexico where stuff they learned are like three years ahead of kids here...hell my mom would get on my teachers and principled case about how little homework I’d get.
 
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