CDP: PS4 IS A LITTLE MORE COMPLICATED THAN X1

[coolstorybro]

http://www.worldsfactory.net/2013/11/28/cd-projekt-ps4-is-a-little-more-complicated-than-x1

The Xbox One is pretty easy to understand because not just the hardware is similar to the PC, but everything like the SDK, the API is really similar to what you would find on a PC. On PS4 this is a little bit more complicated, but I personally worked on PS3 before.

Seems like the complete opposite of other developers, but he is pretty much saying he doesn't know how to code for the PS4 because it isn't DirectX like the Xbox 1.

And who knows, maybe this will be the multi-plat where the XB1 version trumps the PS4 just based on that fact.

 

[consolewarz]

900p to 1080p seems significant to me, and a greater difference than most PS3/360 multiplats. People have championed 360 multiplats for 640p to 720p, or 2-3 more avg. framerate, or the 360 version having vsync. His opinion on what counts as "major" doesn't change the hardware specs. Some of neogaf's reactions have been pretty ridiculous.

He says they haven't yet optimized for both systems. PS4 has lots of room for optimization with its unified memory features and GPGPU customizations for physics based rendering. Once he gets into those his opinion might change.

On complexity he's saying is PS4's APIs are different from DirectX on PC, and possibly "closer to the metal". Lower level access is more complex but potentially more rewarding. On the other hand unified memory should be easier to work with than ESRAM. I don't think the PS4 version will be lacking.

See this comment from another Witcher 3 dev: When probed about PlayStation 4 hardware, Krzeminski says that it’s a “dream come true when it comes to game development” as they haven't had to think about hardware limitations and were simply able to unleash their creative firepower.

 

[sharkboy1200]

Honestly, at this point, if a dev/publisher releases a game on both the X1 and PS4, then it's the fault of said dev/publisher. These consoles are supposed to be much easier to work with than before and there shouldn't be any excuses as to why one version sucks donkey butt. Unless the Wii U is to blame.

 

[Kassen]

Eh? "Closer to the metal?"

 

[A7]

http://www.worldsfactory.net/2013/11/28/cd-projekt-ps4-is-a-little-more-complicated-than-x1

Seems like the complete opposite of other developers, but he is pretty much saying he doesn't know how to code for the PS4 because it isn't DirectX like the Xbox 1.

And who knows, maybe this will be the multi-plat where the XB1 version trumps the PS4 just based on that fact.

Maybe English is not the guys mother tongue but some of the statements made left me scratching my head but the gist of it was the same, they know how to code for Direct X and that's probably what they're comfortable with...

I posted this in the PS4 thread earlier, in there I said that people should get the game for PC or X1 because CDP are just not familiar with the PS4 and for them they find it harder to understand.

 

[Hammerclaw]

Both architectures have their quirks, but neither one are the pain the cell architecture was to program for, yet the PS3 was hardly a disaster and the "weaker" xbox 360 did just fine. The developers will embrace optimization of both new architectures for the simple reason that they want to sell their games on both consoles. So, enough with the doomsday scenarios and let us grant each the peace to enjoy the new generation, shall we?

 

[Cody32599]

900p to 1080p seems significant to me, and a greater difference than most PS3/360 multiplats. People have championed 360 multiplats for 640p to 720p, or 2-3 more avg. framerate, or the 360 version having vsync. His opinion on what counts as "major" doesn't change the hardware specs. Some of neogaf's reactions have been pretty ridiculous.

He says they haven't yet optimized for both systems. PS4 has lots of room for optimization with its unified memory features and GPGPU customizations for physics based rendering. Once he gets into those his opinion might change.

On complexity he's saying is PS4's APIs are different from DirectX on PC, and possibly "closer to the metal". Lower level access is more complex but potentially more rewarding. On the other hand unified memory should be easier to work with than ESRAM. I don't think the PS4 version will be lacking.

See this comment from another Witcher 3 dev: When probed about PlayStation 4 hardware, Krzeminski says that it’s a “dream come true when it comes to game development” as they haven't had to think about hardware limitations and were simply able to unleash their creative firepower.

Nothing that you sated here changes a dam thing that was written in the story.

 

[Z A C K]

Honestly, at this point, if a dev/publisher releases a game on both the X1 and PS4, then it's the fault of said dev/publisher. These consoles are supposed to be much easier to work with than before and there shouldn't be any excuses as to why one version sucks donkey butt. Unless the Wii U is to blame.

I agree. I hate seeing people trying to make arguments that one console is harder to code for than another. You know what, these devs are extremely talented and I have a feeling they can handle it.

 

[coolstorybro]

I agree. I hate seeing people trying to make arguments that one console is harder to code for than another. You know what, these devs are extremely talented and I have a feeling they can handle it.

I agree. The Witcher 3 is one of the most wanted game on PC/PS4/X1, and hopefully the developer takes care and takes advantage of each platform weather it be the extra juice the PC/PS4 provides, or Kinect support.

 

[Kassen]

So simply put, the PS4 isn't actually more complicated, just different and unfamiliar for those who have only programmed for Xbox consoles and PC?

 

[Domination]

CD Projekt creates quality games. They are one of the few out there who take pride in their work and offer free DLC. On top of that, they communicate with their fanbase. We need more developers like these guys.

The Witcher 3 is going to be sick!

 

[bullzeye]

I thought the PS4's hardware was more similar to PC's and the XB1 had all the specialized chips for different tasks?

 

[menace-uk-]

Maybe English is not the guys mother tongue but some of the statements made left me scratching my head but the gist of it was the same, they know how to code for Direct X and that's probably what they're comfortable with...

I posted this in the PS4 thread earlier, in there I said that people should get the game for PC or X1 because CDP are just not familiar with the PS4 and for them they find it harder to understand.

CDP haven't actually made a game for a non direct x platform yet, right ? I mean most of their pedigree is on PC and Witcher 2 was xbox 360 only.

 

[consolewarz]

Nothing that you sated here changes a dam thing that was written in the story.

Yes, because my post can really change the words in an article on another website. What does your post even mean? Just a childish "nyah nyah"? Is this the level of discourse here?

Cd project has some very smart devs working for them, I don't think they'll have trouble picking up PS4's hardware even if they haven't coded for APIs other than DirectX before. If he says they won't hold back PS4's hardware I believe him.

 

[consolewarz]

Dying Light dev mentions PS4's low level APIs, unified memory, and GPGPU as advantages.

Another dev saying something similar: PS4's APIs are lower level than DirectX, so it's more complex, but potentially more rewarding.

"Its high GPU performance comes from the API, which allows a strict control over all processes, and facilitates optimization and experimentation. Obviously, with greater control comes greater responsibility, for example for correct synchronization between processing units."

"A modern GPU, an adequate API and a unified GPU/CPU address space let us develop new algorithms and techniques that simply weren’t possible before: a ShaderModel5 hardware working with DX11 was limited in terms of capabilities comparing to how the hardware actually could perform, and many things were beyond control. Now the GPU alone is fast enough to not only render high quality visuals at 1080p, but it can also take on some task of the main processor."

 

[Mcmasters]

Whatever Sony defense force.

Right. People can argue about these consoles all day but what will be, will be. This is a dev who went on record and said the PS4 is a bit more complicated. Perhaps it is and then again, maybe not. What we can definitely take away from this is that Sony gamers refuse to believe that there is an opposite side to every coin. We've heard the same about the XO too.

Im just glad both consoles are out and we can now see for ourselves. I just dont see a reason to twist the words of the devs working on these machines. So many arm chair developers....its annoying.

 

[Intellivision]

On other words, Witcher 3 will be better on X1. Thank you CDP!

 

[BMARZ]

Right. People can argue about these consoles all day but what will be, will be. This is a dev who went on record and said the PS4 is a bit more complicated. Perhaps it is and then again, maybe not. What we can definitely take away from this is that Sony gamers refuse to believe that there is an opposite side to every coin. We've heard the same about the XO too.

Im just glad both consoles are out and we can now see for ourselves. I just dont see a reason to twist the words of the devs working on these machines. So many arm chair developers....its annoying.

Well said. Obviously, not every developer is going to have identical experiences with the various architectures they're developing for; some may prefer Microsoft's approach while some may prefer Sony's. And who knows what'll happen when the small form factor PCs from the likes of Valve, et al, are released. This notion that anything is settled just weeks into the new generation of gaming is absurd, IMO. I guess when a developer deviates one iota from the narrative set in motion months ago, a call to arms from the Sony contingent is in order; and when someone averages over ten posts per day, just NOT posting isn't an option.

 

[hrudey]

Of course it is. Developers have to make sure their code can run horizontally or vertically.

 

[XBoxNeo]

I don't see what this has to do with anything. The Game Developers simply don't work at the level of engine code anymore. The engine developers do that. The only thing the Game Developers do work with levels and scripting game elements together.

 

[consolewarz]

I guess when a developer deviates one iota from the narrative set in motion months ago, a call to arms from the Sony contingent is in order; and when someone averages over ten posts per day, just NOT posting isn't an option.

Wow, I write a reasonable and informed post with links and more dev quotes and get several personal attacks and strawmen about "sony defense force" in return. Completely disgusting and childish. Let me know when any of you have anything resembling an argument or something that disagrees with what I posted.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Ad_hominem
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Straw_man

 

[eVo7]

I'm sure they are having a tough time getting performance outta these machines with them running 8 core tablet CPU's, to get any kind of performance outta them they probably have to utilize all available cores to the max and the engines have to be even more multi threaded than their PC counter parts just to get OK performance outta these garbo CPU's.

 

[consolewarz]

It's two Kabini class CPUs bolted together. Being an 8 core rather than 4 core it has fair bit more power than any AMD Jaguar SoC you'll find in a laptop. Calling them "garbo tablet CPUs" is both wrong and ridiculous.

Witcher 3 is a single player RPG not a 64 multiplayer game like BF4. It's not likely to heavily stress the CPU and lead to performance bottlenecks.

 

[XBoxNeo]

I'm sure they are having a tough time getting performance outta these machines with them running 8 core tablet CPU's, to get any kind of performance outta them they probably have to utilize all available cores to the max and the engines have to be even more multi threaded than their PC counter parts just to get OK performance outta these garbo CPU's.

If a game developer is using a game engine that was built with multi-threading in mind, it will not be that big of a deal. If an engine developer is making a game engine from scratch, it will be kinda a big deal.

With DX9 on the old consoles, the graphics driver was limited to a single cpu thread to feed drawing commands to the GPU. That is quite a bit different with later versions of DX, which allowed for thread safe GPU instruction calls. However the engine still has to be designed for multi-threading.

As far as I know, all the big game engines already support this: Cryengine, Frostbyte, Unreal. But game engines like Gamebryo and Source are still built with a single GPU instruction dispatch engine. (I know about Source because Titanfall devs admitted they had to make Source thread safe)

To get the really huge multi-threaded increases the engine needs to use tiled rendering techniques though. The PS4 doesn't have any hardware to facilitate this, so that is what this developer is probably complaining about on the PS4.

 

[DriedMangoes]

It's two Kabini class CPUs bolted together. Being an 8 core rather than 4 core it has fair bit more power than any AMD Jaguar SoC you'll find in a laptop. Calling them "garbo tablet CPUs" is both wrong and ridiculous.

Witcher 3 is a single player RPG not a 64 multiplayer game like BF4. It's not likely to heavily stress the CPU and lead to performance bottlenecks.

Do you know what's the desktop CPU equivalent for this processor or what it performs similar to?

 

[consolewarz]

Do you know what's the desktop CPU equivalent for this processor or what it performs similar to?

AMD Jaguar CPUs are only found embedded in SoCs, which are usually in laptops and mATX size PCs. The Jaguar CPUs in PC SoCs are 2-4 cores, while PS4 and Xbox are 8 cores.

Here's an example Jaguar SoC from the list on the wikipedia entry. And a laptop using the SoC.

Neo still off in his own crazy world with "hardware tiled resources that put PS4 at a significant disadvantage" and "PS4 has no hardware tiled texture support". Keep digging.

 

[eVo7]

If a game developer is using a game engine that was built with multi-threading in mind, it will not be that big of a deal. If an engine developer is making a game engine from scratch, it will be kinda a big deal.

With DX9 on the old consoles, the graphics driver was limited to a single cpu thread to feed drawing commands to the GPU. That is quite a bit different with later versions of DX, which allowed for thread safe GPU instruction calls. However the engine still has to be designed for multi-threading.

As far as I know, all the big game engines already support this: Cryengine, Frostbyte, Unreal. But game engines like Gamebryo and Source are still built with a single GPU instruction dispatch engine. (I know about Source because Titanfall devs admitted they had to make Source thread safe)

To get the really huge multi-threaded increases the engine needs to use tiled rendering techniques though. The PS4 doesn't have any hardware to facilitate this, so that is what this developer is probably complaining about on the PS4.

Well i'll tell you something, Cryeng, and Frostbyte are both definitely NOT 8 thread scaleable, or atleast thier PC engines weren't. I had a 8 core AMD and a i7 with HT 8 thread and neither Crysis 3 nor Frostbite 3 use all 8 threads to their max. I get maybe 50-60% utilization on my CPU in those games.

 

[kb]

To get the really huge multi-threaded increases the engine needs to use tiled rendering techniques though. The PS4 doesn't have any hardware to facilitate this, so that is what this developer is probably complaining about on the PS4.

You don't need tiling for large multithread support, otherwise Mantle would be useless and we have no idea about the 'hardware tiling' support in either console really.