The End of the World: A Political Thread. A New Hope coming soon!

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JinCA said:
A public option likely won't be much cheaper, her plan takes 10 years to implement which means it'll be left to someone else to actually complete it and that doesn't make much sense. They need to make sure everyone is covered, a public option still requires people to buy a public plan.
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Her problem is making so wishy washy on what she supports but the idea that Bernie's M4A is going to magically come into existence as soon as a Democrat takes office is silly. The nominee needs to be more pragmatic so something actually gets done and so they don't lose.

Healthcare won them 2018. They keep fooling around and its going to become a losing issue for them in 2020.
 
JinCA said:
A public option likely won't be much cheaper, her plan takes 10 years to implement which means it'll be left to someone else to actually complete it and that doesn't make much sense. They need to make sure everyone is covered, a public option still requires people to buy a public plan.
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A public option with automatic deduction, before taxes, would be the correct way to go.
 
You definitely have to take baby steps with healthcare. The right and special interests are just too good at poisoning people on ideas.

People hate Obamacare and don't even know why. They didn't bother to understand ACA, they just hate it.

The right is going to use scare tactics, instead keep it simple and straightforward. Show that the Democrats have actual ideas to fix things while the right just wants to scare people. The real plan can even be more involved down the line, but for the election, take what we have now and improve it. Otherwise you risk scaring voters away.

Be the calm against the right's insanity. Be the one talking about simple healthcare reform that will get middle class people better coverage.
 
yankeessuck said:
Her problem is making so wishy washy on what she supports but the idea that Bernie's M4A is going to magically come into existence as soon as a Democrat takes office is silly. The nominee needs to be more pragmatic so something actually gets done and so they don't lose.

Healthcare won them 2018. They keep fooling around and its going to become a losing issue for them in 2020.
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Nobody expects it to be the next day but taking 10 years is far too long and being that it's her best case scenario it'll likely be much longer than that. The thing with Bernie is he starts off where he wants us to go and maybe even a little further left, he doesn't give away half of his bargaining power in his plan the way so many other democrats do. Obama did it and Hillary's plans also did it, they started off in the middle so the only place for them to go was to right of center. Obamacare is a republican plan from the 90's, it's also the plan Hillary was pushing before she lost the primary to Obama.

I saw a union leader being interviewed on a show the other day and she wasn't happy with how some Dems (Biden etc) are trying to use them as a shield for not doing medicare for all. She said that unions would love to have healthcare off the table for negotiations so they could focus on salaries and other benefits and not worry about healthcare which always ends up cutting into everything else.
 
JinCA said:
I know the tweet isn't exactly accurate but it's still funny. She seems like a very nice woman but this is a stupid way to appeal to people to vote for her husband.
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JinCA said:
I know the tweet isn't exactly accurate but it's still funny. She seems like a very nice woman but this is a stupid way to appeal to people to vote for her husband.
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JinCA said:
Nobody expects it to be the next day but taking 10 years is far too long and being that it's her best case scenario it'll likely be much longer than that. The thing with Bernie is he starts off where he wants us to go and maybe even a little further left, he doesn't give away half of his bargaining power in his plan the way so many other democrats do. Obama did it and Hillary's plans also did it, they started off in the middle so the only place for them to go was to right of center. Obamacare is a republican plan from the 90's, it's also the plan Hillary was pushing before she lost the primary to Obama.

I saw a union leader being interviewed on a show the other day and she wasn't happy with how some Dems (Biden etc) are trying to use them as a shield for not doing medicare for all. She said that unions would love to have healthcare off the table for negotiations so they could focus on salaries and other benefits and not worry about healthcare which always ends up cutting into everything else.
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There is no plan if you don't win
 
JinCA said:
You don't win if you just promise people you are going to go back to 2015, that kind of talk helped to get Trump elected in the first place.
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And nobody is doing that but people don't want to get rid of their private insurance. Candidates have to be somewhat realistic.
 
Kerosene31 said:
You definitely have to take baby steps with healthcare. The right and special interests are just too good at poisoning people on ideas.

People hate Obamacare and don't even know why. They didn't bother to understand ACA, they just hate it.

The right is going to use scare tactics, instead keep it simple and straightforward. Show that the Democrats have actual ideas to fix things while the right just wants to scare people. The real plan can even be more involved down the line, but for the election, take what we have now and improve it. Otherwise you risk scaring voters away.

Be the calm against the right's insanity. Be the one talking about simple healthcare reform that will get middle class people better coverage.
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Even worse is that the mainsteam media uses the rights' talking points on medicare for all. They too try and conflate losing private insurance with losing the doctor one likes, which isnt true and with the current system you can lose your doctor when your company switches carriers, or you lose or change jobs.
 
JinCA said:
You don't win if you just promise people you are going to go back to 2015, that kind of talk helped to get Trump elected in the first place.
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We live in a country where ACA was too "extreme" for many people. That's just the stupid reality we live in. Facts don't matter, perception and "feels" are all people know.

You have to remember too it is more than just the President, the Democrats need to win big on congress too, otherwise they'll just be sandbagged by the right. If the Democrats get a big swing, they can look to some more deeper reform.
 
Kerosene31 said:
We live in a country where ACA was too "extreme" for many people. That's just the stupid reality we live in. Facts don't matter, perception and "feels" are all people know.

You have to remember too it is more than just the President, the Democrats need to win big on congress too, otherwise they'll just be sandbagged by the right. If the Democrats get a big swing, they can look to some more deeper reform.
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Taking the Senate is very possible but even if they do they aren't passing whatever they want unless they want to get rid of the filibuster and that is pretty short sighted. Its like people think if Trump is defeated the GOP is gone forever and never coming back.
 
yankeessuck said:
Taking the Senate is very possible but even if they do they aren't passing whatever they want unless they want to get rid of the filibuster and that is pretty short sighted. Its like people think if Trump is defeated the GOP is gone forever and never coming back.
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It's a process. Hopefully, a big first step will be made next year.
 
yankeessuck said:
Taking the Senate is very possible but even if they do they aren't passing whatever they want unless they want to get rid of the filibuster and that is pretty short sighted. Its like people think if Trump is defeated the GOP is gone forever and never coming back.
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I wish there was a better path forward, but right now I don't know what to do with the GOP other than simply out vote them and make their minority voice even weaker.

The GOP has to purge this insanity from within, we can't do it for them. Hopefully losing big elections will push them to do that. They won't do the right thing because it is the right thing, but when they start losing they will take notice.

If you want a good laugh, take a look at the GOP report after Romney's loss in 2012. Just look at the section headings like "America looks different". Of course Trump came in and completely went the opposite direction.

https://gop.com/growth-and-opportunity-project
 
Kerosene31 said:
You definitely have to take baby steps with healthcare. The right and special interests are just too good at poisoning people on ideas.

People hate Obamacare and don't even know why. They didn't bother to understand ACA, they just hate it.

The right is going to use scare tactics, instead keep it simple and straightforward. Show that the Democrats have actual ideas to fix things while the right just wants to scare people. The real plan can even be more involved down the line, but for the election, take what we have now and improve it. Otherwise you risk scaring voters away.

Be the calm against the right's insanity. Be the one talking about simple healthcare reform that will get middle class people better coverage.
Click to expand...

This is a good point and something I agree with. Making M4A actually happen would require Democrats to sacrifice everything and some more in order to make it law. If you thought people hated Obamacare just wait until you see the backlash against M4A. I could see claims of death panels making a comeback. The special interest groups would run ads 24/7. Every other word from the right wing media would be socialism.

It's sad to say it but it's easier to do little to nothing to help people from the perspective of winning elections.
 
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