I don't know whether to feel indifferent or really mad at this point at another goofball entertainer stepping into the race.
The End of the World: A Political Thread. A New Hope coming soon!
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he’s gonna give it two more tries and on the third he’ll get elected
Elon will be his viceWait, didn’t kw like fully endorse trump?
OMFG!
I'm serious, guys. This thread title is starting to seem a bit too real lately. I'm like legit scared for the direction our world is going, and quickly.
You mean, you don't see the favor he's doing him by running? This is f***ing INSANE!!!
Not young as in 18 years old. "Younger" compared to the Boomer Biden supporters.
Way less division? Wow, it's probably worse than it was in 2016.
Seems like Neoliberals get into this bubble and don't feel the need to reach out or even check and see what progressives and other demographics are saying about this election. It's so easy to day to just pop in to different platforms to get the gist of what different groups are saying.
In some states you must either have coronavirus or be in a high risk group in order to vote absentee. Even then you have to get a notary to sign.
Meanwhile Joe Biden needs an incredibly high voter turnout rate among his base to win.
It's a publicity stunt. He wants to sell more clothes now that he has that deal with The GAP. It's funny, he'll talk like a conservative, but as soon as Candace Owens threatened to hurt his clothing brand he quickly cut off ties with her. Everything is about money with him.
I am talking about Bernie supporters that people get convinced exist in huge numbers but never bother to vote.
Its not even a comparison. There was less division when the primary was still going and ended months earlier. Bernie did the right thing and whatever Bernie or busters exist are quiet. Plus no relevant third party candidates. The division is less because there is no Hillary.
The key swing states don't require an excuse. Florida, Michigan, Penn, NC, Wisconsin, and Arizona all allow it with no excuse needed.
Republicans being reliable voters is definitely a concern when the election is close. If Biden is leading by 5 at the end of October I will be pretty nervous. If he is still up be 10 not so much.
The stuff we are talking about will be relevant if it gets close (and it may) but right now its not.
No credit given to the CBC for saving Biden's campaign. All those moderates had to drop out and Elizabeth Warren had to stay in the race just to make sure the vote was split up enough for Biden to win. Elizabeth Warren spent the previous summer associating herself with Bernie and adopting his positions just so she could split the vote later on.
You are very out of touch with the overall political landscape. I think these other groups are "quiet" if you are getting all your news from CNN/MSNBC because they are intentionally suppressing those differing viewpoints.
OK.
He's leading among likely voters. These voters are assuming the virus will be gone by November. Early on they estimated that we wouldn't see a vaccine until late 2021.
And he smashed Bernie when it was head to head worse than Hillary did
But
@ the Warren conspiracyWell they aren't quiet if you are getting your news from a couple people whining on Twitter. They protested at the convention last time. You think that kind of anger exists now? It doesn't because people followed Bernie's lead. He was much harsher towards Hillary and stayed in longer because he legitimately didn't like her. This didn't happen this time because he legitimately likes Biden.
He is leading is voters you made up yes. There has been voting the past 3 months. People are willing to vote. They are even willing to stand in long lines to do so. They also don't have to do that everywhere. That was why I was saying that Trump's take on mail in voting is a blunder. He caused a spike in Democrats signing up.
But like I said I agree that can make a difference if its close. It has to get close first. Thinking he is winning right now is maga levels of delusion.
And he smashed Bernie when it was head to head worse than Hillary did
But
Well they aren't quiet if you are getting your news from a couple people whining on Twitter. They protested at the convention last time. You think that kind of anger exists now? It doesn't because people followed Bernie's lead. He was much harsher towards Hillary and stayed in longer because he legitimately didn't like her. This didn't happen this time because he legitimately likes Biden.
He is leading is voters you made up yes. There has been voting the past 3 months. People are willing to vote. They are even willing to stand in long lines to do so. They also don't have to do that everywhere. That was why I was saying that Trump's take on mail in voting is a blunder. He caused a spike in Democrats signing up.
But like I said I agree that can make a difference if its close. It has to get close first. Thinking he is winning right now is maga levels of delusion.
Everything that differs from neoliberal talking points is now a conspiracy or a Russian plot. AND you talked past the CBC point about all those older black voters who had to wait in line for 3-6 hours to make sure Joe Biden won. And they were out there because of Joe's association with Barack Obama not because they liked Biden's politics. Many of those voters believed that Joe Biden would give them medicare-for-all.
At the height of Neoliberal Trump Hysteria Hilary Clinton lost to Trump. Yet, somehow moderates think that everyone will be motivated to come out in a pandemic to vote for Biden because they hate Trump so much. Hilary Clinton complained that ONLY "91%" of black voters (60% turnout) came out for her. What percentage do you expect Joe to get with all these divisive movements amongts black people that have gained steam since 2016?
I can't believe that so many supposedly politically minded neoliberals completely ignore the one group that is holding together their party.
Even if it wasn't a ridiculous conspiracy she got less votes than Bloomberg. Let me guess Bloomberg stole more votes from Bernie than Biden?
Hillary was at 42% in polls at this point in 2016 and never topped 46%. Biden is at 51%.
Wow, you seriously are not going to acknowledge all those black voters that came out for Biden? This is the second time you talked past that point.
What do you want to talk about? The Bernie Bro talking point that black voters are dumb? No I don't really have any interest in that.
The goal is to get people to vote for you. Bernie didn't do that. He ran a poor campaign and made no attempts to get endorsements including Warren
Wow, you seemed to have a very hard time acknowledging that democrats needed that demographic. You felt so uncomfortable that you had to summarily dismiss that point by bringing up a red herring.
Even if Bernie was the nominee he would have the same problem because of the divisive movements within the group that I linked to. P. Diddy is telling people not to vote because that is what he is seeing on his timeline. How do you make a group that you owe so much to invisible?
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Its not much of a red herring. You felt the need to point out people thinking he was supported medicare 4 all. Black voters being uninformed was a popular Bernie supporter talking point after they overwhelmingly voted for Biden.
Well I'm pretty sure we have talked about this before because I remember you saying they need to reach Obama level turnout among black voters to win which is a ludicrous idea. Obviously they need black voters to turn out but what you are failing to recognize is how well Biden does in every other demographic. Biden probably has similar support among black voters as Hillary which could be somewhat of a concern if he wasn't doing so much better than her everywhere else. Other than that I don't what you can say. Obviously he should work to get the black vote as much as possible but there isn't any real serious concern of black turnout falling off a cliff either.
If the young vote was a problem for Biden, he would have not won the primary easily. Maybe the young vote will matter someday, but for now they simply don't turn out. Maybe they show up for a caucus in Iowa, but they don't bother to vote.
The Republicans are running on a culture war. They want to make Biden out to be a "crazy left wing liberal" who wants to burn the flag and turn us communist. The more Biden sticks to a centrist (ie boring) message, the better. The right is going to want to scare people away, so the more "dull" they are, the better. Just like with Obama, people will realize that a centrist Democrat is not what the Republicans paint them to be. The progressives will need to fall in line. Considering Trump is basically cranking up the hate rhetoric to 11, that shouldn't be a problem.
That's why Trump was at Mt Rushmore. They want to incite the protests and make people fear the left. They want to make us out to be lunatics who want to tear down the Presidents. The worst thing Democrats can do is bite at the bait and play the sjw card. Trump is an idiot who doesn't plan out his next syllable, but he's got people behind him that are pushing the fight to certain issues.
Modern politics isn't about winning people over to your view on the issues, it is about pushing the issues you are strong on to the top. Trump won by pushing immigration to the forefront, and somehow convincing people in Michigan and Ohio that latino immigrants are a problem. The Democrats need to shine a light on the bad economics that Republicans have been pushing for years. Any progressive with half a brain will stick with Biden, knowing that in 4 years things can shift more left.
Don't talk about what Trump wants to talk about. By now people have to realize that his harsh language is very much by design. Any progressive who stays home this time is a lost cause.
The Republicans are running on a culture war. They want to make Biden out to be a "crazy left wing liberal" who wants to burn the flag and turn us communist. The more Biden sticks to a centrist (ie boring) message, the better. The right is going to want to scare people away, so the more "dull" they are, the better. Just like with Obama, people will realize that a centrist Democrat is not what the Republicans paint them to be. The progressives will need to fall in line. Considering Trump is basically cranking up the hate rhetoric to 11, that shouldn't be a problem.
That's why Trump was at Mt Rushmore. They want to incite the protests and make people fear the left. They want to make us out to be lunatics who want to tear down the Presidents. The worst thing Democrats can do is bite at the bait and play the sjw card. Trump is an idiot who doesn't plan out his next syllable, but he's got people behind him that are pushing the fight to certain issues.
Modern politics isn't about winning people over to your view on the issues, it is about pushing the issues you are strong on to the top. Trump won by pushing immigration to the forefront, and somehow convincing people in Michigan and Ohio that latino immigrants are a problem. The Democrats need to shine a light on the bad economics that Republicans have been pushing for years. Any progressive with half a brain will stick with Biden, knowing that in 4 years things can shift more left.
Don't talk about what Trump wants to talk about. By now people have to realize that his harsh language is very much by design. Any progressive who stays home this time is a lost cause.
You brought that up to distract from my point about the democrats needing black voters to come out in high numbers.
Yeah, I thought that Bill Clinton, John Kerry, and Al Gore, received more of the black vote than they did. It was because I remember Hilary saying black people "didn't come out for her". Hilary actually received more of the black vote than any of them at 89% (except Obama who got 93% of the black vote) but her voter turnout dropped from 66% to 59% from 2012.
That doesn't mean that Joe Biden doesn't need Black Voters to come out at high rates and vote for him at 90% or higher in order to be competitive. Just not quite the 93% that Obama got in 2012.
Hilary believed that these two minority demogrpahics would come out more for her in 2016 and they came out at the same 50% historical voter turnout rate that they always have and they voted for her at 65%. There is no reason to think the turnout would be better for Biden.
It doesn't need to fall off a cliff. It would need to be on par with how Hispanics and Asians turnout to vote in order for the Democrats to have no chance of winning.
He can't win an election with just the black boomers that saved him.
You're just assuming progressives will fall in line. Look at what progressives are actually saying about the election instead of having everything filtered through the lens of Rachel Maddow or Mika Brzezinski.
Wow, I don't know whether you are a NeverTrumper former Republican or a moderate democrat, but this idea that democrats deserve loyalty because "Trump is racist" is not working with as many democratic voters as you might think.
Incrementalism in the middle of a pandemic is as good as nothing.
Lol, lost cause?
The whole purpose of a controlled opposition democrat is to reign in the left and keep people from asking for meaningful change. Why should progressives have to reach out to people like that?
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But it doesn't necessarily have to be better to win because its not the only area he can improve on. There is lots of room for improvement over what Hillary did.
We can't forget that 2016 featured two historically unpopular candidates.
Give us an app to vote, link it to our ssn and driver/id number.
We just had a primary prove exactly that. You seem to be one of those angry progressives who doesn't quite understand why they can't win elections. You lash out more and more and still can't quite put your finger on what is wrong.
Until mass amounts of progressives start to vote, they won't matter. Someday they will (or they'll just be older and in a different demographic). There's always this mass of Bernie supporters who never seem to vote but are always just about to.
What progressives are out there are walled off by the electoral college.
What some people either can't or won't accept is that large chunks of America are conservative, not progressive. This is combined with the fact that for the better part of a decade, right wing news has been filling half the country with propaganda. Trump is completely incompetent, yet almost 40% of the country thinks he's doing a good job. This is not a country where a strong swing left is happening any time soon.
You are aware that the reason Bernie ran in 2016 was because a yearlong effort to get Warren to do so didn't work: http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/the-draft-warren-movement-winds-down
So that whole thing about associating herself with Bernie? Nah.
hrudey
According to Elizabeth Warren Bernie told her that a woman couldn't win a Presidential election. She claims that he said this right after she told him she would be running in 2018.
So why would he have held himself back from running in the hope that Elizabeth Warren would get into the race if he didn't think a woman could be President?
And that article you linked to doesn't help your case at all.
Nothing here about Bernie wanting Elizabeth Warren to run for President. In fact, the article makes it clear she only decided to run after Bernie announced he was running for President. Looks like she had no intention of running before that.
And that article is from late 2015. This is her with Bernie in 2018:
Here she is making her case for Medicare-for-all trying to appeal to Bernie voters:
She backpedaled quickly on medicare-for-all and now she is on the shortlist for VP. It's not a coincidence.
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Lashing out? You only find what I'm saying provocative because that's how cable news frames any sort of criticism of neoliberals. It's a "conspiracy" that Elizabeth Warren decided to stay in the race. Why? Because Trump pointed it out?
I'm seeing a lot of Tim Pool and Joe Rogan influence in your posts.
No, they would just rather suffer and die than continue to let establishment moderate Republicans keep control over the Republican party.
Some of the NeverTrumpers here were life long Republicans until 2016. I remember how they used to promote gradualism back in the day only it was Mitt Romney instead of Biden.
I wouldn't be too sure about that with this country about to go through a great depression and a pandemic. The hurt will be spread around a lot more. The more people that go through a pandemic without healthcare (because they lost their job) the more likely those people are to want free healthcare.
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I'm not brainwashed by cable news. I don't watch any of it and think all of it is more harm than good. CNN and MSNBC wants to pump for ratings, and they do that by bringing Trump to the forefront every single moment.
The only news I consume anymore is AP, Reuters and Washington Post (don't happen to have a sub to the NY Times).
I have no idea who Tim Pool is and I've never listened to a minute of Joe Rogan (seen him mentioned).
I'm not against liberalism, I'm just against anything that is going to help Trump get re-elected. The further left you push, the more votes get lost. I'm not a Democrat or a Republican, but a pragmatist. What little Republican I still may have had in me was pushed out by Bush long before Trump came around. I may as well consider myself a Democrat at this point, seeing as I would not pull the lever for anyone Republican at this point, including the local elections.
The conspiracy isn't keeping people like me in the middle, but the one propagated by Fox News that keeps middle class people voting against their own health care and other self interests. None of this is my opinion on where we should be, but where we are. This country is in a deep, dark place, yet 40% thinks "all is well!".
The right wing media is just far, far too good at what they do right now. I think some kind of major health care reform would be great, but it will never happen in this current climate. The next 4 years will just be about fixing the country. As things stand now, there might not be an America to argue over if things keep going the way they are.
Democrats also need to get a lot smarter with their messaging. When the right puts out landmines like "forced gov't healthcare", the left needs to not grab a pogo stick and jump up and down on it. Democrats need to fix the messaging, then they can get to actually fixing the country.
The one "mainstream" news site I do check is Fox News. Not to get news obviously, but that's a clear way to see their talking points.
Just look at the headlines from Foxnews.com and you can see exactly the narrative they are trying to spin (and you'll hear a million Trump-bots repeating the same thing over and over).
Today the headline is about "anti-police demonstrations (which isn't really accurate) spreading covid-19".
What Fox is trying to do (and is damn good at it) is to make things binary. Are you pro-police or anti-police? As if there's only 2 choices, police or anarchy. Of course, anyone with a brain knows that this is not what most protests are about, but half the country only listens to this.
They are also trying to push the false narrative that there's this "liberal" entity behind BLM, which of course, we wish we could be half as organized as they claim. The false narrative is that we "allow protesting in spite of covid". This isn't true, nobody asked permission to protest, and officials constantly warn people to wear masks and to socially distance.
The real danger in this message is that it is:
1) Simple
2) Repeated throughout the right wing echo chamber
Fox talks about it at 8am, Trump tweets it at 9am, then his minions are out repeating it all day over and over. There's a ton of power in that kind of repetition. I've seen people all over the internet pushing this same narrative.
www.foxnews.com
Just look at the headlines from Foxnews.com and you can see exactly the narrative they are trying to spin (and you'll hear a million Trump-bots repeating the same thing over and over).
Today the headline is about "anti-police demonstrations (which isn't really accurate) spreading covid-19".
What Fox is trying to do (and is damn good at it) is to make things binary. Are you pro-police or anti-police? As if there's only 2 choices, police or anarchy. Of course, anyone with a brain knows that this is not what most protests are about, but half the country only listens to this.
They are also trying to push the false narrative that there's this "liberal" entity behind BLM, which of course, we wish we could be half as organized as they claim. The false narrative is that we "allow protesting in spite of covid". This isn't true, nobody asked permission to protest, and officials constantly warn people to wear masks and to socially distance.
The real danger in this message is that it is:
1) Simple
2) Repeated throughout the right wing echo chamber
Fox talks about it at 8am, Trump tweets it at 9am, then his minions are out repeating it all day over and over. There's a ton of power in that kind of repetition. I've seen people all over the internet pushing this same narrative.
Anti-police demonstrations may have sparked new coronavirus cases, some cities now acknowledge
Several big-city mayors and top officials are acknowledging that weeks of anti-police protests and riots may have contributed to surging coronavirus rates.
www.foxnews.com
Its a conspiracy to think she was in just to hurt Bernie. She didn't run a good campaign but she was trying to win. OMG she pivoted a tiny bit on medicare 4 all what a betrayal! And probably the most well known Woman in congress in on the VP short list for someone who is going to pick a woman? Wow WHAT A COINCIDENCE!
Did you know her campaign sent feelers to Bernie's about to potentially set the stage for them to work together near the end and the Bernie's campaign just ignored it. Biden campaign worked to get endorsements and get everyone out. Bernie's made zero attempt to get any endorsement.
I'm sure Bernie would have done well if there were 65 people running on Super Tuesday but maybe he shouldn't be the nominee if that is the only way he could win? Putting the blame on Warren is just a way for some to avoid putting any on Bernie.
It's not as easy to see the bias in those sources because they don't usually have these really hyperbolic personalities like on Fox News, but they tend to filter what they report on so that it favors establishment politics (both moderate democrats and moderate republicans). Listening to people like Dylan Ratigan, Democracy At Work (Richard Wolf), Matt Taibi at (Rolling Stone), would be much more informative.
Yeah, it's moderate Republican politics with the democratic party branding. Gradualism, incrementalism. There was always some sort of boogeyman that they could point to.
Yeah, well, it's far more likely that we will end up having mass unrest in this country. Things are already snowballing.
How many Trump supporters are being evicted right now because of Covid-19? People are stubborn, but they can only take so much before they have a shift in their politics.
There is no danger of any of that because Joe Biden is against medicare-for-all. They are going to sound
The people asking for medicare-for-all are not on the same side as the DNC trying to stop them from getting it.
It seems like the neoliberals look at Trump as someone that they can hold over progressives heads to get them to come out for estasblishment politicians, but there aren't as many people who are hysterical about Trump as many Nevertrumpers would think.
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