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DriedMangoes

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Sep 12, 2013
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An interesting take from the writer of this article.

http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/1...ps4-will-always-be-stronger-than-the-xbox-one

According to Gilray, “the PS4 has MORE COMPUTE units, and faster memory and a whole bunch of things, that would make that [Xbox One / PS4 parity] physically impossible to happen.” At this point, four months after launch, an increasing amount of data suggests that Gilray is right — and that may be why the PS4 continues to outsell the Xbox One at a rapid clip.

What’s more telling, however, is the way that Microsoft continues to push out the idea of further Xbox One upgrades. Thus, we’re told that the Xbox One will support DX12, even though it’s not clear that a new API will help much. We know that Mantle and DX12 attack many of the same problems (even if there’s no evidence to suggest that DX12 is a straight port of Mantle). To date, the Mantle benefits we’ve seen have been strongest in scenarios where a weak CPU is paired with a strong GPU. Unfortunately, if CPU performance was really what held the Xbone back in game tests, it would already be faster than the PS4 — the Xbox One’s CPU cores are clocked about 8% higher than Sony’s.

This suggests that DirectX 12 might deliver a general six-to-12% performance improvement over DX11 for Microsoft’s console, but that’s not the same as making the SRAM cache larger or improving the memory bandwidth. These are all noteworthy improvements, but they don’t change the fact that MS is scrambling. The company has increased CPU and GPU clocks, announced a new API, and may be considering giving developers back the GPU horsepower currently reserved for Kinect, all because it got its bets wrong in the first place about how much horsepower it needed to compete toe-to-toe with Sony.

Sony isn’t talking up these kinds of changes — even though we know that consoles often become more efficient and capable over the long term thanks to software updates and developer familiarity — because it simply hasn’t needed to.

The question isn’t really whether or not Microsoft can make the Xbox One as powerful as the PS4 — it can’t, without a hardware redesign. The question is whether or not it can give developers enough power as to make comparisons between the two platforms a moot point. After all, the Xbox 360 and PS3 had strengths in particular games, but both platforms ended up in very similar positions in the end.

For now, the PS4 retains a significant quality and speed advantage over the Xbox One. Some of the particulars of the Xbone’s design seem to imply that it’ll be extremely difficult for Microsoft to reach parity with Sony. The Wii’s tremendous success last generation proved that you can drive huge console sales with novel gameplay as opposed to strictly focusing on great graphics, but Microsoft has typically marketed itself to a gaming segment that’s concerned with such capabilities. That strategy may have backfired, given current sales figures.

ps4-vs-xbox-one-benchmark-640x353.jpg
 
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And X1 has cpus running at a higher clock, a gpu at a higher clock and more usable ram for games.

On paper, PS4 may still be more powerful, but then a again the $2,000 386 I had in the early 90s ran at 33 mhz and had 1 mb of ram. Yet the Genesis and SNES I had which cost $200-300 each ran at a fraction of the speed and ram.

Aside from games heavy in text, just about every game looked better, sounded better, loaded faster, ran smoother and had more nifty effects..... on the console. Even the Genesis or SNES gamepad was much better than any PC pad or joystick.

One thing the Oddworld dev (a dev in heated disputes with MS) didn't mention is game quality. And at this time, X1 wins.
 
These articles are just beating a dead horse at this point. All the systems will produce beautiful games. :see Nintendo`s recent efforts.
 
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These articles are just beating a dead horse at this point. All the systems will produce beatiful games. :see Nintendo`s recent efforts.
Spot on.

Great specs are one thing (potential), but it's all about the actual games that come out.

Neo Geo blew away Genesis and SNES with it's arcadey specs, yet aside from some quick arcade romps, I'd rather spend my money buying NHL, World Series Baseball on Genesis or SFII on SNES vs. $200-300 cartridges where Nam 75 could be beat with unlimited continues in about 25 minutes..
 
The question isn’t really whether or not Microsoft can make the Xbox One as powerful as the PS4 — it can’t, without a hardware redesign. The question is whether or not it can give developers enough power as to make comparisons between the two platforms a moot point. After all, the Xbox 360 and PS3 had strengths in particular games, but both platforms ended up in very similar positions in the end.

....while I agree to an extent.
The last part of this paragraph makes his whole point nearly null.
The 360 and PS3 did not start out at parity. The 360 was the defacto performance/multiplatform champ for almost the entire generation.
We are barely 5 months in so all the 'Microsoft is scrambling to catch up' is a bit premature.
They have improvements to be made for sure but saying that Sony 'isn't talking up these kinds of changes' is also foolish.
Tell me.....when the 360 was kicking the PS3 in multiplatform performance was Sony scrambling to even the odds?
They weren't.....because they knew in the end there would be parity. Same with Microsoft. The author of this article seems to have a foggy memory.
 
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....while I agree to an extent.
The last part of this paragraph makes his whole point nearly null.
The 360 and PS3 did not start out at parity. The 360 was the defacto performance/multiplatform champ for almost the entire generation.
We are barely 5 months in so all the 'Microsoft is scrambling to catch up' is a bit premature.
They have improvements to be made for sure but saying that Sony 'isn't talking up these kinds of changes' is also foolish.
Tell me.....when the 360 was kicking the PS3 in multiplatform performance was Sony scrambling to even the odds?
They weren't.....because they knew in the end there would be parity. Same with Microsoft. The author of this article seems to have a foggy memory.
The article is based on the Oddworld dev. That guy has been disgruntled against MS for years since they had a falling out..... I think something to do with Oddworld not conforming to MS' XBLA HDD limit. So MS said no.

It's a weird industry..... thought mostly coming from the smaller studios.

When they don't get their way, they badmouth a platform.

Typically in business, when companies are trying to forge partnerships.... supplier/retailer.... supplier/wholesaler.... wholesaler/retailer, heck supplier/supplier helping each other with materials.... sometimes the parties don't come to an agreement on terms or conditions.

Typically, when things don't go well, you keep mum and move onto another business venture.

Yet in the gaming industry, these guys all whine and complain and badmouth the very platform the want to do business on. A very odd way of doing business.
 
This just in, water is actually wet.

Honestly the way I see it is that PS4 is a gaming machine straight up, and Xbox One is a fancy set top box that happens to play games. MS was never going to go full in with gaming Xbox One, they just wanted it to be the center of your entertainment room and what makes that more evident than anything is the ability to plug your cable box into the machine with the Xbox over lays and Guides and all that jazz.
 
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MS is doing what they need to do, to try to neutralize the two negatives they have: lower power and higher price. I think they're doing a pretty good job of that. They are slashing prices, and it seems like every other week, I'm hearing some story about them boosting performance or at least promising to do so.

It remains to be seen whether they can render the hardware differences moot. They are clearly trying to convince people that they intend to -- but the proof is in the pudding, as they say. Unfortunately, the pudding in this case is not tasty butterscotch, but instead is a bunch of indigestible DF comparison threads...
 
This just in, water is actually wet.

Honestly the way I see it is that PS4 is a gaming machine straight up, and Xbox One is a fancy set top box that happens to play games. MS was never going to go full in with gaming Xbox One, they just wanted it to be the center of your entertainment room and what makes that more evident than anything is the ability to plug your cable box into the machine with the Xbox over lays and Guides and all that jazz.

Yup. Though both consoles are going to cater towards entertainment the XB1 is geared more towards an encompassing form of it....while the Ps4 is more narrow and centered on games.
Is this a plus for either? Well it depends on who you ask.

I've been VERY critical and vocal of the Xb1 because I think Microsoft dropped the ball with it in regards to focusing the platform on games and games alone...everything else should have been second.
What I DON'T like is when a company is trying to improve upon a particular issue (a.la Microsoft trying to appeal again to the hardcore crowd by releasing resources, updating SDKs, etc) and people trying to downplay or spin it in a negative light. If you aren't particularly knowledgeable about the system or the software then close your damn mouth and let us see if they can back up the rhetoric in any noticeable way first.
 
Yup. Though both consoles are going to cater towards entertainment the XB1 is geared more towards an encompassing form of it....while the Ps4 is more narrow and centered on games.
Is this a plus for either? Well it depends on who you ask.

I've been VERY critical and vocal of the Xb1 because I think Microsoft dropped the ball with it in regards to focusing the platform on games and games alone...everything else should have been second.
What I DON'T like is when a company is trying to improve upon a particular issue (a.la Microsoft trying to appeal again to the hardcore crowd by releasing resources, updating SDKs, etc) and people trying to downplay or spin it in a negative light. If you aren't particularly knowledgeable about the system or the software then close your damn mouth and let us see if they can back up the rhetoric in any noticeable way first.
I think MS' major failing is two fold:

1. Not realizing many gamers will interpret their media promoting overshadowing games. For me (like many), it's safe to assume Xbox will have the games. MS just wanted to solidify the whole media/entertainment facet since that part of consoles took off.

It's like Starbucks having TV ads about new pastries, wi-fi or late hours. Does that mean Starbucks doesn't sell coffee and lattes anymore? Nope. That's still the focus and everyone knows it.

And look at that, X1 has a pretty good launch line up. Sony was supposed to be all about games, yet where's the great first or third party AAA exclusives?

2. Not realizing that a combination of gamers misunderstanding them (see pt 1) and endless fanboyism on the internet would last for months. Even the two Sony execs chimed in with a youtube video about game sharing. On the plus side, with the games out now and all the OS updates and such, most of it has disappeared as gamers know better.

At the end of the day, never underestimate your target audience. As marketing managers tell me..... most people are basically stupid and have to be handheld to understand.

And for fanboy websites guess what? Like many big companies, they spend marketing money to promote their product with sites and bloggers. Free products, a file to cut and paste on their blog that shows a nice pic and various positive points. I sat in on a recent meeting where our new products will be promoted across 20+ popular bloggers. Some free product, some free promotional content, an invoice send direct to them electronically you name it..... ($$$).

Even for the modest site my buddy runs, he sent R* an email asking if they had any promo stuff to give away. He got a box with free GTA5 (360 and PS3), stickers, and various collectibles. All for free.
 
Intelli....

Infamous SS is a great game and it is the best looking game on consoles IMO. I'd say that classifies as 'a great first or thrid party AAA exclusive'.

Of course that definition might be different for you so to each his own...
 
Intelli....

Infamous SS is a great game and it is the best looking game on consoles IMO. I'd say that classifies as 'a great first or thrid party AAA exclusive'.

Of course that definition might be different for you so to each his own...
I should have clarified.... I meant at launch (literally).
 
I should have clarified.... I meant at launch (literally).

I think launch games line-up is important but only for that certain 1-2 months launch window because that is what will attract the potential buyers to get the console. But after that, the games will start rolling and it won't be much of a factor anymore. Like it was good to discuss it at the time but now that launch has come and gone, I think those who keep mentioning the launch games as a certain "advantage" need to start letting it go because there will a bunch of games coming out in the first year that will make the majority think of the launch games as an afterthought.
 
It's not that I doubt the dev in reference to power. I question how relevant that difference is really making now. Is the XB1 differences right now a difference in power or the fact the MS was behind the game because they had to back track and rewrite the system to remove DRM policies/ online stuff instead of refining their dev kits?

Based on evidence now I'm not inclined to believe that MS will fully bridge that gap. I won't rule it out entirely, but I'll believe it when I see it. Having said that do I really don't think difference in power is going to produce anything that is going to be substantially different besides to pixel counters. No.

The one thing in the article that is straight up laughable is that the power is the difference in the sales. The biggest graphical differences are in year old ports of games that (while fun), weren't mega blockbusters. Maybe Sony is selling well because they have a good system at a good price without any drama. Maybe MS isn't selling as well because people are wary about the drm policies and it is 125% the ps4 price. To me ms buyers have good reason to wait and see, while Sony fans don't have much reason to wait.
 
It's not that I doubt the dev in reference to power. I question how relevant that difference is really making now. Is the XB1 differences right now a difference in power or the fact the MS was behind the game because they had to back track and rewrite the system to remove DRM policies/ online stuff instead of refining their dev kits?

Based on evidence now I'm not inclined to believe that MS will fully bridge that gap. I won't rule it out entirely, but I'll believe it when I see it. Having said that do I really don't think difference in power is going to produce anything that is going to be substantially different besides to pixel counters. No.

The one thing in the article that is straight up laughable is that the power is the difference in the sales. The biggest graphical differences are in year old ports of games that (while fun), weren't mega blockbusters. Maybe Sony is selling well because they have a good system at a good price without any drama. Maybe MS isn't selling as well because people are wary about the drm policies and it is 125% the ps4 price. To me ms buyers have good reason to wait and see, while Sony fans don't have much reason to wait.

Exactly what I'm doing. Waiting and seeing when the Xbox One will be worth buying. Probably once DX12 advantages start hitting late 2015 to early 2016 would be a good time since more console exclusives would be out and the price will have dropped considerably (hopefully).
 
Water is wet, sugar is sweet. Intellivision is biased.

Could you imagine if the boxes were reversed and the names were on each other's box. How intellinovision would change his tune so so much. And you know you would Intelly, hopefully you can see the problem and talk in a different light. Atleast that isn't the case, if it was we would have to see 10 articles a day about how that One box with faster ram, a better gpu etc is better.
 
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Stardock's CEO Brad Wardell
"The results are spectacular. Not just in theory but in practice (full disclosure: I am involved with the Star Swarm demo which makes use of this kind of technology.) While each generation of video card struggles to gain substantial performance over the previous generation, here, the same hardware will suddenly see a doubling of performance."

"XBox One is the biggest beneficiary; it effectively gives every Xbox One owner a new GPU that is twice as fast as the old one."

But hey I guess we can just pick and choose who we want to believe based on the flag we are waving.

But this guy is actually seeing the results now and working on it and not just talking out of his ass.
 
I think MS' major failing is two fold:

.

MS falling behind Sony, is mainly due to much higher price point, & secondary weaker spec.

The fanboys' war, or the whole internet against MS (if you believe that) have very little impact to overall sales.

Which console have better lineup is subjective, but undeniable is the lack of Kinect titles. At its price point, it need more great Kinect base games to justify the price premium & kinect inclusion.

Reduce the price point (which they have unofficial/offically done) depends on where, show us more great Kinect games, & reduce the performance gap is what MS should be doing, & to be fair, have been working on that for a while.
 
BTW DriedMangoes....I don't know if you knew this but that comparison shot or whatever of TR in the OP is not of the Xb1 or PS4 versions.
Hence Lara not looking like a plastic surgery horror story a la the definitive versions.

Just thought I would let you know. :wink:
 
Stardock's CEO Brad Wardell


But hey I guess we can just pick and choose who we want to believe based on the flag we are waving.

But this guy is actually seeing the results now and working on it and not just talking out of his ass.


Its very easy for people to be convince actually. Show actual results, as in retail games. At this moment there is a lot of talk, but very little show. You cannot blame people to be skeptical.

The best thing they have shown is a cloud demo on a PC. We need more things like that, but on actual xbox.

Even a tech demo on actual XBOX game, on Xbox, using DX12 , to show the improvements will go a long way.
 
Somebody feel free to correct me, but I visited the stardock website and they work only pcs.

Their starswarm demos, even the mantle v dx12 was far more focused on the cpus.

Has anybody thought that maybe the dude is making an assumption that there will be as much benefit on the xbox one based on his experience with pcs? I mean, the xb1's software would have to be absolute pile of sh*t in order for dx12 to have as much effect on the xbox one as pcs no?

Dx12 is basically bringing console like development efficiency to pcs no? and we know already that the xb1 is already using dx12 features. That's why i have a hard time accepting his statements. The xbox one would have to have absolutely terrible software to see as much benefit from dx12 as pcs.

Then the amd/intel statements....to me they are talking about desktops...I mean, why would the intel be talking about the xbox one?
 
So if the hardware doesn't change and the PS4 keeps outselling the Xbox One on a worldwide basis, I mean, it becomes less powerful? Somehow? Criminy.
 
I think launch games line-up is important but only for that certain 1-2 months launch window because that is what will attract the potential buyers to get the console. But after that, the games will start rolling and it won't be much of a factor anymore. Like it was good to discuss it at the time but now that launch has come and gone, I think those who keep mentioning the launch games as a certain "advantage" need to start letting it go because there will a bunch of games coming out in the first year that will make the majority think of the launch games as an afterthought.


This.

I lol when people put so much weight into launch titles, when the launch titles weren't even all that great.
 
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