Yeah I agree. There'd have to be a hooooge upgrade in bandwidth to even entertain 8k. That, and I doubt there'll be demand for it for a long while.
Next Iteration Gaming: Neo, NX, and Scorpio, v. 2
- Thread starter Andy
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2 at one point so at least I tasted before making opinions.
The normal ps4 supports atmos.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/...ofts-loftis-xbox-gaming-and-scorpio/90408722/
Microsoft's Loftis on Xbox gaming and Scorpio
Brett Molina1 day ago
Story is just as important as technology for Microsoft Studios Publishing general manager Shannon Loftis. The latest example: the recently-launched ReCore, starring a resourceful female lead character who becomes a science-fiction heroine.
"I have a huge commitment to always looking for characters that are a little bit off the beaten path," says Loftis. "Just to give more people something to emotionally relate to in our portfolio."
ReCore, which launched this week for Xbox One and Windows 10, features Joule, the member of a small colony of humans departing Earth to form a new world on the desert planet Far Eden. The colonists enter cryo-sleep for 200 years while the planet is terraformed into a more hospitable environment for life.
The game starts with Joule awakening from a deep sleep investigating why the planet hasn't changed and how CoreBots, robots sent to the planet to help humans, have been corrupted.
ReCore is a third-person action game Loftis says follows "the Metroid Prime tradition" of platforming games, where moving through Far Eden is as important as the enemies players face.
The reference to Metroid Prime is no accident. Armature Studio, developers behind ReCore, worked with Nintendo on the company's classic Metroid Prime series. Microsoft also recruited Keiji Inafune, who worked on famous video game franchises including Mega Man.
The CoreBots serve as both companions, such as Joule's dog-like partner Mack, and as foes Joule can vanquish. Joule can retrieve Energy Cores from the bots and use those to strengthen Mack or her gear.
"The team worked hard to pack as much charm and story into every character and every prop in the universe that they possibly could," said Loftis of ReCore.
ReCore is part of a wide spectrum of Xbox One/PC games arriving this year and beyond. Later this month, racing title Forza Horizon 3launches, while cooperative shooter Gears of War 4 lands next month. But there are also some interesting games falling outside traditional genres, including Cuphead, an action title with visuals reminiscent of a 1930's cartoon.
"Our goal is for Xbox is to provide the broadest spectrum of games," says Loftis. "The number one thing we hear when we talk to gamers ... is choice."
Next year will be big for Xbox, as it rolls out its Project Scorpio console to compete with Sony and the rival PlayStation 4. The more powerful PS4 Pro will launch in November.
Loftis says Microsoft is already exploring virtual reality options and games for Xbox, which will support VR with Scorpio, as well as prepping titles for the boost in visual quality. "Any games we're making that we're launching in the Scorpio time frame, we're making sure they can natively render at 4K."
Microsoft's Loftis on Xbox gaming and Scorpio
Brett Molina1 day ago
Story is just as important as technology for Microsoft Studios Publishing general manager Shannon Loftis. The latest example: the recently-launched ReCore, starring a resourceful female lead character who becomes a science-fiction heroine.
"I have a huge commitment to always looking for characters that are a little bit off the beaten path," says Loftis. "Just to give more people something to emotionally relate to in our portfolio."
ReCore, which launched this week for Xbox One and Windows 10, features Joule, the member of a small colony of humans departing Earth to form a new world on the desert planet Far Eden. The colonists enter cryo-sleep for 200 years while the planet is terraformed into a more hospitable environment for life.
The game starts with Joule awakening from a deep sleep investigating why the planet hasn't changed and how CoreBots, robots sent to the planet to help humans, have been corrupted.
ReCore is a third-person action game Loftis says follows "the Metroid Prime tradition" of platforming games, where moving through Far Eden is as important as the enemies players face.
The reference to Metroid Prime is no accident. Armature Studio, developers behind ReCore, worked with Nintendo on the company's classic Metroid Prime series. Microsoft also recruited Keiji Inafune, who worked on famous video game franchises including Mega Man.
The CoreBots serve as both companions, such as Joule's dog-like partner Mack, and as foes Joule can vanquish. Joule can retrieve Energy Cores from the bots and use those to strengthen Mack or her gear.
"The team worked hard to pack as much charm and story into every character and every prop in the universe that they possibly could," said Loftis of ReCore.
ReCore is part of a wide spectrum of Xbox One/PC games arriving this year and beyond. Later this month, racing title Forza Horizon 3launches, while cooperative shooter Gears of War 4 lands next month. But there are also some interesting games falling outside traditional genres, including Cuphead, an action title with visuals reminiscent of a 1930's cartoon.
"Our goal is for Xbox is to provide the broadest spectrum of games," says Loftis. "The number one thing we hear when we talk to gamers ... is choice."
Next year will be big for Xbox, as it rolls out its Project Scorpio console to compete with Sony and the rival PlayStation 4. The more powerful PS4 Pro will launch in November.
Loftis says Microsoft is already exploring virtual reality options and games for Xbox, which will support VR with Scorpio, as well as prepping titles for the boost in visual quality. "Any games we're making that we're launching in the Scorpio time frame, we're making sure they can natively render at 4K."
No, it someone is going to claim it as a bonified fact, they need to do more than just quote the same rumor mill article over and over again as their de facto proof. Historically, these next gen disc drives have cost anywhere from $125-$200 back when the DVD released and back when the Blu-ray released. They have pretty of sources on those.
But he he posted a rogue rumour. Does that count more than me posting hard facts showing the extreme costs of new Blu-ray technologies? That's not fair.
PS4 vanilla has 8 gigs of memory. PS4 pro has 8 gigs of memory.
There are rumors that the Pro gets access to an additional 512MB of that 8gigs, but has it been confirmed? If so, where's your source? In any case, that 512MB (if the rumors are true) may be consumed by the added resolution of the native frame buffer, making it irrelevant.
Scorpio has significantly more memory than Xbox 1 vanilla... and the difference in textures on it will be meaningful/major/noticeable.
Yes, that's irrelevant.
PS3's high price tag cost them sales they could have had if the unit was cheaper out the gate and didn't have Blu-ray.
PS4 Pro's lack of competitive media features (not having UHD Blu-ray out the gate) is going to cost Sony sales of the PS4 Pro.
Both are mistakes by Sony, both cost them sales.
Neither mistake on Sony's part has any bearing on how well or how little Microsoft sells with Scorpio. It's entirely irrelevant to the conversation.
I haven't seem proof from either of you, and you're both making knowledge claims which demands a burden of proof you have yet to share.
Get specific, and get proof.
What is your contention, and where is your evidence/proof?
Is that your contention? It would have been "impossible" for Sony to add UHD Blu-ray playback to the PS4 Pro and slim?
If that's your contention, you're obviously and demonstrably incorrect.
It was sarcasm directed at the excuses as to why PS4 Pro doesn't have that feature.
Got it.
Yeah, I don't know what Kassen is smoking. Implicitly comparing DVD to Blu-ray cost difference to the cost difference between Blu-ray and UHD Blu-ray is completely ill-informed and illogical.
DVD to Blu-ray cost delta was MASSIVE due to:
- New laser type (blue instead of red diodes)
- New lens type to handle the new laser
- New motors which ran the disks at varying speeds (DVD's always run at a single speed)
- New media which needed new disc-types, and new coating (since a scratch on a Blu-ray disc would make a far greater impact than scratch on a DVD)
All combined, it was a massive cost-of-goods difference between DVD and Blu-ray when Blu-ray first launched.
With Blu-ray vs. UHD Blu-ray, very few of those issues apply:
- Laser is exactly the same.
- The lens is a bit different to read triple layer disks instead of just two layer discs, but similar tech. Just a mild tweak.
- Same motors
- Slightly different discs (3 layer instead of 2 layer)
All combined, the cost of goods are really not much different between Blu-ray and UHD Blu-ray. It's no where near the COG's difference between DVD and Blu-ray.
http://www.playstationlifestyle.net...microsofts-response-ps4-pro-quite-intriguing/
Sony’s Andrew House Found Microsoft’s Response to the PS4 Pro “Quite Intriguing”
September 16, 2016 Written by Jason Dunning
After the PlayStation 4 Pro was announced, the official Xbox Twitter account reminded everyone that the Xbox One S includes a 4K Blu-ray player – something the PS4 Pro lacks – and Microsoft’s Albert Penello talked about how he believes next year’s Project Scorpio will be the “most powerful box.” In a new interview with Digital Spy, Sony Interactive Entertainment CEO Andrew House was asked about Microsoft’s response:
I thought it was quite intriguing given that we’d seen a year of stories about “a new and different Microsoft” in terms of their attitude towards the competition.
House added, “That was rather short lived, wasn’t it?” when Digital Spy brought up the new and gentler politics of recent years.
Although the official Xbox Twitter accounts and some executives made these comments, Xbox boss Phil Spencer mentioned that he prefers things to be more civil. “I’ve been public about my dislike of the negative dialog. We should stay focused on what we are building for Xbox gamers,” he wrote on Twitter.
Elsewhere in the Digital Spy interview, House mentioned that the lack of a 4K Blu-ray player in the PS4 Pro doesn’t necessarily mean the start of a digital-only future, they just noticed that streaming is beating physical media 5:1 on PS4:
No, I don’t think one should read into it that way. If you look at our current business, we see very stable sales of packaged media when it comes to games.
On the other hand, when I look at other ways people are using their PS4 – video content is absolutely the number two use of people’s time on the console. But it is 5:1 in favor of streaming video versus packaged media. We looked at that and said that’s probably where we should place our emphasis.
But I don’t think you should extrapolate out from that to say that’s now going to change our philosophy around other areas of the business.
House added that it’s “to be determined” if the PS4 Pro will support Sony’s Ultra Streaming service, and the $400 USD system is being targeted “towards someone who is probably pretty knowledgeable and committed in the kind of entertainment they want.”
As for the 4K gaming PS4 Pro will provide, and whether it’s native or upscaled, House said, “I would say the majority will be upscaled – at least based on the game portfolio I have seen to date.” Asked if he feels like ‘4K gaming’ is a misleading term, House replied:
No, I don’t think so. I think that whatever the term is, it’s a question of whether people see a demonstrable difference in the game experience or not, rather than the term we use to apply to it.
I think that’s what people are looking for and they’ll make their judgement as to whether that’s working for them or not.
So far, games confirmed to support native 4K on PS4 Pro include The Last of Us Remastered, Mantis Burn Racing, and The Elder Scrolls Online.
Sony’s Andrew House Found Microsoft’s Response to the PS4 Pro “Quite Intriguing”
September 16, 2016 Written by Jason Dunning
After the PlayStation 4 Pro was announced, the official Xbox Twitter account reminded everyone that the Xbox One S includes a 4K Blu-ray player – something the PS4 Pro lacks – and Microsoft’s Albert Penello talked about how he believes next year’s Project Scorpio will be the “most powerful box.” In a new interview with Digital Spy, Sony Interactive Entertainment CEO Andrew House was asked about Microsoft’s response:
I thought it was quite intriguing given that we’d seen a year of stories about “a new and different Microsoft” in terms of their attitude towards the competition.
House added, “That was rather short lived, wasn’t it?” when Digital Spy brought up the new and gentler politics of recent years.
Although the official Xbox Twitter accounts and some executives made these comments, Xbox boss Phil Spencer mentioned that he prefers things to be more civil. “I’ve been public about my dislike of the negative dialog. We should stay focused on what we are building for Xbox gamers,” he wrote on Twitter.
Elsewhere in the Digital Spy interview, House mentioned that the lack of a 4K Blu-ray player in the PS4 Pro doesn’t necessarily mean the start of a digital-only future, they just noticed that streaming is beating physical media 5:1 on PS4:
No, I don’t think one should read into it that way. If you look at our current business, we see very stable sales of packaged media when it comes to games.
On the other hand, when I look at other ways people are using their PS4 – video content is absolutely the number two use of people’s time on the console. But it is 5:1 in favor of streaming video versus packaged media. We looked at that and said that’s probably where we should place our emphasis.
But I don’t think you should extrapolate out from that to say that’s now going to change our philosophy around other areas of the business.
House added that it’s “to be determined” if the PS4 Pro will support Sony’s Ultra Streaming service, and the $400 USD system is being targeted “towards someone who is probably pretty knowledgeable and committed in the kind of entertainment they want.”
As for the 4K gaming PS4 Pro will provide, and whether it’s native or upscaled, House said, “I would say the majority will be upscaled – at least based on the game portfolio I have seen to date.” Asked if he feels like ‘4K gaming’ is a misleading term, House replied:
No, I don’t think so. I think that whatever the term is, it’s a question of whether people see a demonstrable difference in the game experience or not, rather than the term we use to apply to it.
I think that’s what people are looking for and they’ll make their judgement as to whether that’s working for them or not.
So far, games confirmed to support native 4K on PS4 Pro include The Last of Us Remastered, Mantis Burn Racing, and The Elder Scrolls Online.
Flynn,
The articles says that Pro will have 512mb of ram freed up. Not sure why/how that happens in Pro and not the stock PS4, but someone Pro games get more ram to dabble with.
Will 512mb of extra ram be enough to make textures better? If not, what do you think this extra ram will be used for?
Xbox One and PS4 Pro launches have been very similar.... although Sony should be lucky Pro has got all the media attention since PS4 Slim pales in comparison vs. X1 S in improvements.
Never the less, both X1 and Pro have had less than stellar pre-launch marketing, PR, gamer responses, and most importantly media Q&A.
Just like X1, Sony execs are now the ones getting absolutely peppered with Q&A, often times with leading questions which gamers already know what the answer will be.... some kind of PR spin to deflect. Same thing happened when X1 launched. While MS execs were plastered with Q&A about digital, game sharing and such, Sony execs are now in defend mode as they try to convince gamers Pro can do 4k (when it barely can), and lack of UHD.
Shoes on the other foot.
And just like years back when Sony enjoyed praise on the sidelines, this time it's MS sitting quietly in the background. All they've really done is announce Scorpio with vague specs and BC, that's good enough to appease the masses, so they get to sit back this time.
Never the less, both X1 and Pro have had less than stellar pre-launch marketing, PR, gamer responses, and most importantly media Q&A.
Just like X1, Sony execs are now the ones getting absolutely peppered with Q&A, often times with leading questions which gamers already know what the answer will be.... some kind of PR spin to deflect. Same thing happened when X1 launched. While MS execs were plastered with Q&A about digital, game sharing and such, Sony execs are now in defend mode as they try to convince gamers Pro can do 4k (when it barely can), and lack of UHD.
Shoes on the other foot.
And just like years back when Sony enjoyed praise on the sidelines, this time it's MS sitting quietly in the background. All they've really done is announce Scorpio with vague specs and BC, that's good enough to appease the masses, so they get to sit back this time.
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UHD isn't new technology though, it's iterative technology.
And the article isn't a rumor, it's well researched, sourced and well founded. They have taken into account every single part of the console to the sources and come up with prices based on how much they believe MS would have paid for them.
It's weird that you're brushing it off as baseless, yet you have zero evidence to the contrary.
How many have you done?
Sure, but absent anything conflicting, it's still better than the guesses you or I can come up with. Certainly we can't know for sure in any case. It's all just trying to make sense of it.
Exactly. I'm not sure why Kassen is on the crusade trying to debunk IHS.
It's the best info we have, IHS is a trusted company with a history of analysis.
Is it the 100% exact costing MS gets? Of course not. No cost analysis done by any research firm is 100% correct. The only people who know are MS employees in the purchasing/finance dept. There are so many factors that teardown research like this is based on a combo of what they know and what they assume..... in this case MS ordering millions of chips.
A research company may say the price of oil is $50/barrel based on commodities. Guess what? That is the spot price. Large companies hedge commodity/material costs way back. My company hedges material costs about 18 months in the future.
If oil is $50/barrel (too lazy to check), that means if my company orders raw oil (they don't), the price they pay is what it costs now, but for a delivery 18 months from now. The delivery of oil now costs what they negotiated in early 2015.... which is who knows what.
A small company making a UHD BR player will get worse costing than Samsung making a UHD model in the millions.
I'm not sure why Kassen is trying to disprove IHS data is bogus and inaccurate to a level which makes it non-believeable.
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It wasn't about proof, really. Just trying to think my way to the why. I see a couple articles and pists that say it inly costs about fourty bucks and it sounds reasonable, given the X1 can price itself the way it has.
Kassen brings up the price of uhd players to support it being a higher priced drive. Too costly to implement.
I posit that those are priced that way largely because they marked up and considered new, enthusiast products and they think people will pay it.
I have no idea where to find that info, nor do I care as it was more interesting as a ponderance or thought exercise. It's more fun to deduce and discuss. Until people get upset, of course.
Yeah.
Retail price and cost of goods price do not always correlate. Retail price depends on the product and what people will pay and what a retailer wants to sell it for.
A drug store is high priced. They sell the same stuff as Walmart but is always more expensive.
I used to work at company way back that made electrical gadgets. The base model sold for about $50 in stores, but cost of goods (COGs) was about $20. We sold it to stores for about $35 (not even double the cost). They sell for $50.
Cost of goods is 40% of the retail price ($20/$50).
Our top end products were about $300. Premium price, but the COGs don't scale like the basic model. The cost of goods was maybe $50. We sold it for about $200 to stores (4x the cost). Stores sell it for $300.
Costs of goods is 16.7% of the retail price ($50/$300).
We sold way more base models at lower margin, but we had our small share of premium buyers who want to buy the high end model which is slightly better and looked better.
A Tag Heuer watch can cost $2,000. A Fossil watch is let's say $100. Does that mean the costs to make a Tag is 20x the Fossil? No.
He's just a writer who mentions what IHS estimates the costs at.
There is not a single source is referenced in the IHS article.
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I guess you don't know the meaning of the word. "Sourced" mean you sourced your work. You shouldn't lie like that.
And why would IHS publicly out where they got the component costs from? It's their research.
It's like NPD doing sales reports every month. They might say Call of Duty sold the most games that month. They aren't going to say.... Walmart sold X, EB sold Y, Best Buy sold Z.
Not sure why you are trying to disprove IHS.
It's no different than Sony saying they were losing lots of money putting in a BR player in PS3. They never showed people actual invoices and bills showing component costs. I believe they might have just said they were losing a few hundred $ per console. So in that case, maybe they were lying since they gave no concrete printouts for people to look at.
Just as I said above, research firms do estimates. They don't know actual costs as a supplier paying XXX for something is confidential and varies between companies.
In that IHS article, you can follow links. One link goes to IHS methodology on teardown costs.
Kassen: You should read the link and understand what teardown estimates are. You are taking the article about X1 S costing too literal penny for penny.
https://technology.ihs.com/531666/ihs-teardown-methodology-producing-the-best-should-cost-estimate
In that IHS article, you can follow links. One link goes to IHS methodology on teardown costs.
Kassen: You should read the link and understand what teardown estimates are. You are taking the article about X1 S costing too literal penny for penny.
https://technology.ihs.com/531666/ihs-teardown-methodology-producing-the-best-should-cost-estimate
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Flynn,
In your opinion, when do you think console specs are finalized? Dev tools can always adjust, but talking actual chips, how far back?
So if Scorpio (or any console) launches Q4 2017, how far back does a company typically lock and load specs?..... Q1 2017?
In your opinion, when do you think console specs are finalized? Dev tools can always adjust, but talking actual chips, how far back?
So if Scorpio (or any console) launches Q4 2017, how far back does a company typically lock and load specs?..... Q1 2017?
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