The Xbox Onesie

JinCA said:
That's not going to double the framerate, a dev on neogaf says it's about 10.5% better than the one in the Pro even when counting the audio stuff taken off of it. It's improved but not meant to double performance.
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Well, I'll have to change my mind now. Certainly some random guy on a video game forum quoting some other guy on another video game forum who apparently claims to be a developer is clearly more of a source than an actual developer at E3 speaking live on camera.
 
Nervusbreakdown said:
The disappointment is already there. If you think this cpu is no different than that pOS chip the sony have than you didnt read what was done for the xbox one x.

Like Flynn said Destiny should and capable of running it at 60.

ARK will get an Update that eill run at 60fps and its a much bigger game than Destiny.

Again to compair the pro to the X is a big joke and that memory is a huge factor.

People already in youtube already bailing the game because they didnt support such framerate.
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LOL @ listening to anything Flynn says

Secondly ARK is one game, nothing that was shown at MS's presser is running at double the framerate compared to the X1s version, they'd have made a huge deal about that if it were. As I said before some games occasionally may be able to and that has more to do with what the CPU and GPU are responsible for in their engine.

Is the power theoretically there for Destiny to run at 60 fps? yeah, it is on Pro too but that's not how their engine works and that's not what their focus was on. Look at Battlefield and Battlefront, both look better than Destiny and both target 60 fps but rarely actually hit it on PS4/X1s, BF1 does a much better job on the Pro of hitting it's 60fps target pretty much all the time while having better visuals. That's the kind of framerate improvement you'll see with X1X, more stable and likely staying at it's target full time but not doubling by any means, making some efficiency strides that are overblown doesn't mean you double performance. What you wouldn't see is BF1 running at 30 fps on X1s and 60 on X1X.
 
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hrudey said:
Well, I'll have to change my mind now. Certainly some random guy on a video game forum quoting some other guy on another video game forum who apparently claims to be a developer is clearly more of a source than an actual developer at E3 speaking live on camera.
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Matt is verified on Neogaf, honestly the proof is there even if you want to ignore it. Other than Ark no games have been announced to get a doubling of framerate, Crackdown is 30 fps in single player on X1X even as bad as it looks. If the engine is focused on 30 fps that's what they'll be going for, you can believe all the CPU enhancements can double performance all you want but it's not going to be the case for the vast majority of games. There are random games on Pro that have options for higher framerates too but they generally aren't 60 just up to 60 and they say targeting 60 a lot when doing that too.,The CPU in the X1X got basically the same bump over the one in the One S as the Pro CPU did over the standard PS4. The focus on these machines wasn't double framerates and anyone who believes that's the case is just sticking their head in the sand.
 
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JinCA said:
Matt is verified on Neogaf, honestly the proof is there even if you want to ignore it. Other than Ark no games have been announced to get a doubling of framerate, Crackdown is 30 fps in single player on X1X even as bad as it looks. If the engine is focused on 30 fps that's what they'll be going for, you can believe all the CPU enhancements can double performance all you want but it's not going to be the case for the vast majority of games. There are random games on Pro that have options for higher framerates too but they generally aren't 60 just up to 60 and they say targeting 60 a lot when doing that too.,The CPU in the X1X got basically the same bump over the one in the One S as the Pro CPU did over the standard PS4. The focus on these machines wasn't double framerates and anyone who believes that's the case is just sticking their head in the sand.
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Wow, he's verified by Neogaf. Wasn't CBOAT also? But I'm impressed. Can you link me to his interview with the gaming media?

And you can drop the red herring about double CPU performance. My disagreement with you has always been your contention that the two CPUs are essentially identical except the XB1X is clocked a little higher than the one in the Pro. If that's the only difference, I'm sure that the developer who I saw interviewed at E3 who said they could target 60 FPS on X1X (and be much closer to it than not) and that it was *impossible* on the PS4 Pro must surely have bad information. Maybe he should consult you and the legendary Matt so he can get correct information?
 
hrudey said:
Wow, he's verified by Neogaf. Wasn't CBOAT also? But I'm impressed. Can you link me to his interview with the gaming media?

And you can drop the red herring about double CPU performance. My disagreement with you has always been your contention that the two CPUs are essentially identical except the XB1X is clocked a little higher than the one in the Pro. If that's the only difference, I'm sure that the developer who I saw interviewed at E3 who said they could target 60 FPS on X1X (and be much closer to it than not) and that it was *impossible* on the PS4 Pro must surely have bad information. Maybe he should consult you and the legendary Matt so he can get correct information?
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Yeah, JinCA is just out of his depth.

The truth is that it really doesn't matter how much of an advantage the CPU in the X1X has over the PS4 Pro's - the facts are that it's better, as is everything else in the X1X compared with the PS4 Pro. X1X beats the Pro on every single level. The GPU is much more powerful, the memory advantage is just massive (significantly more to work with, and it's significantly faster than PS4 Pro's), not to mention Microsoft's system software has always been better than Sony's, so the hardware advantage is amplified by the software advantage.

But seriously, you don't need a CPU to be twice as powerful to run a game at double the frame rate. That's just a false/incorrect assertion that JinCA is making.
 
JinCA said:
That's not going to double the framerate, a dev on neogaf says it's about 10.5% better than the one in the Pro even when counting the audio stuff taken off of it. It's improved but not meant to double performance.
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Lowering overheads improve efficiency. It isn't all about percentages. It isn't just audio stuff either. They moved the DX12 command from the CPU to the GPU, Sony didn't do that. So not only is it quicker and more pwerful but it is far more efficient.

However, I do agree that it isn't just going to double framerate.
 
CPU utilization is HEAVILY dependent on the game engine being used and the API.

Some games could see double the framerate, while some less.

This isn't a 'one shoe fits all' type of scenario. It is important to make that distinction.
 
Nervusbreakdown said:
The disappointment is already there. If you think this cpu is no different than that pOS chip the sony have than you didnt read what was done for the xbox one x.

Like Flynn said Destiny should and capable of running it at 60.

ARK will get an Update that eill run at 60fps and its a much bigger game than Destiny.

Again to compair the pro to the X is a big joke and that memory is a huge factor.

People already in youtube already bailing the game because they didnt support such framerate.
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To be fair, I didn't say that Destiny should be capable of running at 60fps, I said:

"1. I don't think BIGJOHN suggested he believes that Destiny 2 will run at 60fps, only that it *should* run at 60fps."

If I had to guess, I'd guess that Bungie is using a heavily modified version of the same tech they've been using for years (starting with Halo), and that they've embedded/hard-coded elements of their game/engine which expect 30FPS for sim and render. If that guess is true, then it certainly wouldn't be an easy task to make the game run at 60fps. That said, I'd also guess that the same assets, rendered at the same quality (or better), with the same scene complexity (or better) could be achieved with less dated tech, running at twice the frame rate. I say this because I see plenty of games which run at 60fps which (in my mind) look to be rendering scenes which are perceivably as good or better than scenes in Destiny 2 which do run at 60fps... but I don't know. JinCA doesn't know. Heck, probably a majority of Bungie engineers don't know - but some of them do - and unless they have commented on this, I'd suggest we leave that kind of speculation off the table. I don't see the value in such discussions.
 
Flynn said:
Heck, probably a majority of Bungie engineers don't know - but some of them do - and unless they have commented on this, I'd suggest we leave that kind of speculation off the table. I don't see the value in such discussions.
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DO YOU EVEN INTERNETZ, BRO?!

Hell, looking at our politics these days, do you even life?
 
Kvally said:
According to the PS Store:

https://store.playstation.com/#!/en-us/all-ps4-games/cid=STORE-MSF77008-PS4ALLGAMESCATEG

1816 games available to play on PS4. I have no idea if that includes PS2 BC games or if it includes PS3 games from PS Now.

According to the Xbox Store:

http://www.xbox.com/en-US/games/xbox-one?xr=shellnav

1100 games available to play on the Xbox One. This does not include BC games, which if my memory serves me correctly, they said they were at about 400 games now. That makes it 1500 games to play on Xbox One.

I am sure I am probably missing some in both of those
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Quick look and I see that Sony lists the same game multiple times depending on version. Not sure if every game is like that but AC Black Flag for example is listed with basic version and Gold version. I don't think it includes PS Now games and I see games listed as PS4/PS3/Vita so I don't think those are separate in that list. I'd say to be fair they are pretty equal for game counts. I have to give Xbox the BC titles as part of the list since you actually "own" them versus just rent.
 
Viktor said:
Quick look and I see that Sony lists the same game multiple times depending on version. Not sure if every game is like that but AC Black Flag for example is listed with basic version and Gold version. I don't think it includes PS Now games and I see games listed as PS4/PS3/Vita so I don't think those are separate in that list. I'd say to be fair they are pretty equal for game counts. I have to give Xbox the BC titles as part of the list since you actually "own" them versus just rent.
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I didn't catch that.
 
JinCA said:
Matt is verified on Neogaf, honestly the proof is there even if you want to ignore it. Other than Ark no games have been announced to get a doubling of framerate, Crackdown is 30 fps in single player on X1X even as bad as it looks. If the engine is focused on 30 fps that's what they'll be going for, you can believe all the CPU enhancements can double performance all you want but it's not going to be the case for the vast majority of games. There are random games on Pro that have options for higher framerates too but they generally aren't 60 just up to 60 and they say targeting 60 a lot when doing that too.,The CPU in the X1X got basically the same bump over the one in the One S as the Pro CPU did over the standard PS4. The focus on these machines wasn't double framerates and anyone who believes that's the case is just sticking their head in the sand.
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Matt is a developer who isn't a huge fan of X1X and says it's only incrementally more powerful than Pro. Other developers have said different. No single developer or coder is the end all be all final answer on hardware or APIs. Carmack is considered one of the smartest tech guys in the world and he got stuff wrong in his comments of the Xbox One vs PS4 in 2013.

Developers speak from personal experience which can be influenced by their goals and tools they're working with. Working in technology, I see users opinions vary wildly on new tech depending on personal experience.

It's also silly for gamers in gaming forums to act like experts after reading people argue on Neogaf. This isn't a shot at you. It's for all of us. We should let the results speak for themselves and consume accordingly.
 
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hrudey said:
DO YOU EVEN INTERNETZ, BRO?!

Hell, looking at our politics these days, do you even life?
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Oh man... don't get me started! People in this world are so broken... so much is just so ridiculous...
 
Viktor said:
Quick look and I see that Sony lists the same game multiple times depending on version. Not sure if every game is like that but AC Black Flag for example is listed with basic version and Gold version. I don't think it includes PS Now games and I see games listed as PS4/PS3/Vita so I don't think those are separate in that list. I'd say to be fair they are pretty equal for game counts. I have to give Xbox the BC titles as part of the list since you actually "own" them versus just rent.
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Yeah - even though I haven't done enough research (clearly), it does seem like they're pretty evenly matched in raw numbers... but there's not a clear advantage on one or the other, so I'll stop using that as a positive argument for Xbox's superiority. :)
 
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Kuu2 said:
Savage
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giphy.gif


Cold Blooded!
 
OneBadMutha said:
Matt is a developer who isn't a huge fan of X1X and says it's only incrementally more powerful than Pro. Other developers have said different. No single developer or coder is the end all be all final answer on hardware or APIs. Carmack is considered one of the smartest tech guys in the world and he got stuff wrong in his comments of the Xbox One vs PS4 in 2013.

Developers speak from personal experience which can be influenced by their goals and tools they're working with. Working in technology, I see users opinions vary wildly on new tech depending on personal experience.

It's also silly for gamers in gaming forums to act like experts after reading people argue on Neogaf. This isn't a shot at you. It's for all of us. We should let the results speak for themselves and consume accordingly.
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Matt said he's buying it the day it comes out and it will be his go to console, not sure why you are saying he's not a huge fan, he's just telling people to stop blowing things up to be bigger than they are.

I didn't take that last part as a shot at all, I know I'm not an expert at all I'm just going by what people who actually work on this stuff say who aren't in it for PR. We also have to remember MS will say things that make some things a bigger deal just for marketing reasons as does Sony so you have to temper expectations when it comes to what you hear from them both regarding their products.

The Destiny thing is kind of strange, I know I used Frostbite as an example of tech that I think seems to work better, then again they aren't really doing the same thing are they? Destiny is basically an MMO and is probably having to run other things in the background more than a straight up competitive MP shooter with destruction. I know that had nothing to do with what you said but I just threw that in there anyway lol.
 
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JinCA said:
Matt said he's buying it the day it comes out and it will be his go to console, not sure why you are saying he's not a huge fan, he's just telling people to stop blowing things up to be bigger than they are.

I didn't take that last part as a shot at all, I know I'm not an expert at all I'm just going by what people who actually work on this stuff say who aren't in it for PR. We also have to remember MS will say things that make some things a bigger deal just for marketing reasons as does Sony so you have to temper expectations when it comes to what you hear from them both regarding their products.

The Destiny thing is kind of strange, I know I used Frostbite as an example of tech that I think seems to work better, then again they aren't really doing the same thing are they? Destiny is basically an MMO and is probably having to run other things in the background more than a straight up competitive MP shooter with destruction. I know that had nothing to do with what you said but I just threw that in there anyway lol.
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Destiny is not an MMO....not even close.
 
Nervusbreakdown said:
Destiny is not an MMO....not even close.
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It still has things running in the background that a plain shooter doesn't is what I'm saying, it's not a full on MMO but it's not just a typical MP shooter either.
 
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Man all you guys talk about is specs, how boring. Watched some Crackdown footage and it really looks like a proper Crackdown game, not that garbage which was 2. If it turns out good I would be tempted to be an Xbox One S for it.
 
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Flynn said:
X1X beats the Pro on every single level.
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Except big single player focused games like you even said yourself, right? Do us all a favor. If you really do work at Microsoft, run this message by Phil. Because apparently everyone hitting him up on Twitter isn't getting anywhere. Bot account or i don't know what.

Can you tell Phil we want some gritty games that push a 6 teraflop console please? Enough of this cartoon focus. I thought that's what Nintendo consoles were for. So now you're trying to sell a $500 box that does multiplats better when they're better on PC and does cartoon games that are done better on Switch? Makes no sense.
 
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Plainview said:
This land isn't your land, this land is my land
From the California to the New York island
From the Redwood Forest, to the gulf stream waters
This land was made for me and not you
As I went walking that ribbon of highway
I saw above me that endless skyway
And saw below me that golden valley
This land was made for me and not you
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Ha Ha Ha!

As always, I start reading threads from the most recent page and work backwards.

I didn't get why PV wrote this weird message, then reading some more above that.... LOL. Yup, looks like many of us were right. It was a former anti-MS troll.... This Hard Land.

Add him to Smilebit as another permabanned member sneaking back as another user name,
 
Crackdown looks ok. Not my kind of game. I remember playing the CD demo from like 2007 or 2008. Has a weird floaty feel to the game. Shooting up tons of people and car crashes were nice, but leaping over rooftops was too over the top for me.
 
Intellivision said:
Ha Ha Ha!

As always, I start reading threads from the most recent page and work backwards.

I didn't get why PV wrote this weird message, then reading some more above that.... LOL. Yup, looks like many of us were right. It was a former anti-MS troll.... This Hard Land.

Add him to Smilebit as another permabanned member sneaking back as another user name,
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He was smilebit as well.
 
Path Of Exile Dev: Running In 4K/60FPS Xbox One X 2 Hours After Getting Dev Kit:

'2 hours after we got the dev kit it was running at 4k 60fps'




Destiny 2 looks like DLC for Destiny...can't hit 60 fps? Yeahhhhhhh sure.
 
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TDbank24 said:
Except big single player focused games like you even said yourself, right? Do us all a favor. If you really do work at Microsoft, run this message by Phil. Because apparently everyone hitting him up on Twitter isn't getting anywhere. Bot account or i don't know what.

Can you tell Phil we want some gritty games that push a 6 teraflop console please? Enough of this cartoon focus. I thought that's what Nintendo consoles were for. So now you're trying to sell a $500 box that does multiplats better when they're better on PC and does cartoon games that are done better on Switch? Makes no sense.
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Lol. Its funny how "single player focused" games apparently became a genre. I remember when they were called first or or third person games..cos Microsoft makes those.
 
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