DirectX 12 Coming to Xbox One thread, v. 2

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menace-uk- said:
Doubt it. PS4 has a more conventional hardware set up, unlike last gen where it was totally different and a b**** to work with. Sony also seems to have decent dev tools this time -buying that company seems to be paying off. The xbox one is a little less conventional. DX12 may help improve efficiency and the SDK will no doubt help with the overall dev process, but making it easier than the PS4...doubtful.
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This is where I think your wrong. I truly believe that MS will make it easier then the ps4 because they are a software company. MS just got a little slow coming out the gate and SONY just played it safe.

MS will still lead in software and there is nothing SONY can do about it.
 
starseeker said:
Like I said before if MS want people (not just hardcore MS fans) to believe in the potiential of DX12 on XBOX, they need to show actual games running with DX12 on XBOX One.

Simple as that.
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Oh if was that easy for those...

illiniguy said:
I have been reading sites all day that are saying the effect will be minimal, to almost non-existent, etc...
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I'm surprised there hasn't been more of a push to call it a sham or say it will hurt Xb1.
 
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starseeker said:
The main benefits for DX12 are actually for PCs, as DX12 is now 'closer to the metal', compare to the past, which has always been the main issue wth PC gaming (unable to make use of the full potiential of the hardware).

Console are already design to be 'close to the metal', so benefit will be less.
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The problem with this argument is that it really seems that the console was designed for the metal being close to the API, rather than the other way around. That API would be DX12. We really haven't even seen the One do what it was designed for.
 
illiniguy said:
The Forza thing, iMO, has been taken way out of context. They were never showing it to prove how well DX12 is going to work for X1... that was a demo showing how well they could PORT Forza to PC with the DX12 API. It was never meant to show X1, or Forza improvements... it was just a port demonstration. They never tried to pass it off as being XB1 footage either.
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Oh but you misunderstand me now :)

I meant Forza 5 last year at E3 when Xbox One wasn't even out yet.
 
Here's how I see it. DX 11.2 or whatever gives access to certain things that 12 will, but it sounds like the devs had to be told by MS how to properly design games for X1. (See DR3)

What it sounds like to me, is that DX12 will do what it's supposed to with supported hardware. All new features are added PLUS those stumbling blocks like using the eSRAM properly, will be eliminated because DX12 is likely designed with hardware configs like this in mind.

That is just what I take from the devs talking after Build.
 
illiniguy said:
The Forza thing, iMO, has been taken way out of context. They were never showing it to prove how well DX12 is going to work for X1... that was a demo showing how well they could PORT Forza to PC with the DX12 API. It was never meant to show X1, or Forza improvements... it was just a port demonstration. They never tried to pass it off as being XB1 footage either.
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Hmm, they took a game that wasn't built around DX12 and converted the code to DX12 in short order. You say they won't show more than an early build of something at E3?.......

Perhaps you aren't reading ENOUGH into it.
 
Nervusbreakdown said:
This is where I think your wrong. I truly believe that MS will make it easier then the ps4 because they are a software company. MS just got a little slow coming out the gate and SONY just played it safe.

MS will still lead in software and there is nothing SONY can do about it.
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Spot on. Microsoft is the greatest software company in the world. They are the software kings. The Xbox One will only get easier to develop for and we'll see the results pay off. With the cloud and DirectX 12 it's sure to have the best looking games all around. It's just a matter of time.
 
starseeker said:
I think (my opinion) we should wait until we see actual results before making any broad/sweeping statements.

We have the right to be positives, but we should win the championship before popping the champagne. You can have your 'thank you' speech ready, but its better to wait until you actually won the oscar, before telling the world. Its not too late then.

My 2 cents.
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Rather ironic. As I recall, there was certain crowd "popping bottles of bubbly" right after E3.
 
starseeker said:
The main benefits for DX12 are actually for PCs, as DX12 is now 'closer to the metal', compare to the past, which has always been the main issue wth PC gaming (unable to make use of the full potiential of the hardware).

Console are already design to be 'close to the metal', so benefit will be less.
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What?!?!?
 
What some people need to wrap their head around is this: DX12 is not some fancy new add-on being tacked onto a finished product. DX12 is part of the finished product, and the XB1 was built from the ground up to include it. There's nothing haphazard about the Xbox One's design, only how it had to be rushed to market, incomplete. Well, it's all better, now. Microsoft's engineers knew what they were doing and they've been trying to tell us this, all along, but their voices have been drowned out by the laughing jackasses and empty-minded belittlers, all eager to jump on the MS hate wagon. Well, that's all better now, too.
 
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I have no doubt of a few things. The X1 was built with DX12 in mind, and it was engineered in a way that would allow it to utilize that API well above the 11.2 that came out of the box. Im also sure that DX12 will make a difference in the performance of the X1. The naysayers on that point are in the minority, and im including actual devs, not internet fan boys. The difference in performance remains to be seen, and I personally dont think it'll be drastic, but it will allow 1080p/60fps with much more frequency on the X1.

What im not so sure about, is whether DX12 will make a difference in practice. What I mean is, will devs even attempt to really get the most out of it, combined with tiled resources and cloud computing? Its really early, and the learning curve will lessen for devs as time goes by, but will that even matter in the long run? Ive said it before, but devs (particularly third parties) have to get off their ass and learn how to use these features, and if they wont, Microsoft needs to ensure that its first party output shows everyone what the X1 is capable of, thereby proving third pary output being sub par is really just the fault of the developer.
 
Hammerclaw said:
What some people need to wrap their head around is this: DX12 is not some fancy new add-on being tacked onto a finished product. DX12 is part of the finished product, and the XB1 was built from the ground up to include it. There's nothing haphazard about the Xbox One's design, only how it had to be rushed to market, incomplete. Well, it's all better, now. Microsoft's engineers knew what they were doing and they've trying to tell us this, all along, but their voices have been drowned out by the laughing jackasses and empty-minded belittlers, all eager to jump on the MS hate wagon. Well, that's all better now, too.
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This a thousand times!
 
Momewrath said:
I have no doubt of a few things. The X1 was built with DX12 in mind, and it was engineered in a way that would allow it to utilize that API well above the 11.2 that came out of the box. Im also sure that DX12 will make a difference in the performance of the X1. The naysayers on that point are in the minority, and im including actual devs, not internet fan boys. The difference in performance remains to be seen, and I personally dont think it'll be drastic, but it will allow 1080p/60fps with much more frequency on the X1.

What im not so sure about, is whether DX12 will make a difference in practice. What I mean is, will devs even attempt to really get the most out of it, combined with tiled resources and cloud computing? Its really early, and the learning curve will lessen for devs as time goes by, but will that even matter in the long run? Ive said it before, but devs (particularly third parties) have to get off their ass and learn how to use these features, and if they wont, Microsoft needs to ensure that its first party output shows everyone what the X1 is capable of, thereby proving third pary output being sub par is really just the fault of the developer.
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First rate developers will have no trouble at all, as Microsoft will keep them supplied with updated SDKs, and provide whatever assistance they need. Relatively inexperienced second and third rate developers will be more problematical and will have to go to school or resign themselves to producing third rate products. Since only a fraction of games in any given console cycle has ever come close to maxing a console's full potential, I rather doubt it will be a difference that makes much difference in this one, either.
 
Nervusbreakdown said:
I think the true game that will show what Xbox one have to offer is Fable Legends.
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That makes me Noivus, Nervus. Fable games are always disappointing, yet I find myself, playing each and every one with a kind of horrid fascination, gritting my teeth at the chessy dialogue, and wincing when yet another traditional RPG element is mangled beyond recognition. It's an addiction, and I just can't shake it.
 
Nervusbreakdown said:
This is where I think your wrong. I truly believe that MS will make it easier then the ps4 because they are a software company. MS just got a little slow coming out the gate and SONY just played it safe.

MS will still lead in software and there is nothing SONY can do about it.
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I don't like this argument, you can't always believe or think Sony will always be bad at software just because they started as a hardware company and vice versa. New teams, new fields always have changes. This argument has been used a lot in the past, but Sony obviously did better currently on software tools, so there is no reason to keep this old saying going any longer. Sony now has the software experience and people to keep up with MS, that is a possible out come. It isn't like MS's last few software outtings have been that amazing.
 
Hammerclaw said:
What some people need to wrap their head around is this: DX12 is not some fancy new add-on being tacked onto a finished product. DX12 is part of the finished product, and the XB1 was built from the ground up to include it. There's nothing haphazard about the Xbox One's design, only how it had to be rushed to market, incomplete. Well, it's all better, now. Microsoft's engineers knew what they were doing and they've been trying to tell us this, all along, but their voices have been drowned out by the laughing jackasses and empty-minded belittlers, all eager to jump on the MS hate wagon. Well, that's all better now, too.
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That's just your idea, and seems if X1 didn't need that Esram and slower ram, it would have built even better to handle dx12 I'd say. I don't think X1 was built from the ground up to handle DX12 as you say, and if MS doesn't want to gimp PC in anyway, the PC should be doing a lot more with it technically.

Now, you can optimize anything for what you have. So, MS could in theory get more and add more into DX12 for specific GPU's obviously. I don't like the built from the gruond up idea your using here.

If anything THE DX12 X1 will have, will be built specifically for X1, not the other way around.
 
Hammerclaw said:
That makes me Noivus, Nervus. Fable games are always disappointing, yet I find myself, playing each and every one with a kind of horrid fascination, gritting my teeth at the chessy dialogue, and wincing when yet another traditional RPG element is mangled beyond recognition. It's an addiction, and I just can't shake it.
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well to be honest I think this Fable will be different because you can see they have almost a whole new crew at Lionshead Studios. I think this is going to be a true RPG game that will shock alot of people.

I think it will take this game differently then the others.
 
Nervusbreakdown said:
Jackie read these words.

SONY WILL NEVER HAVE A BETTER SOFTWARE TOOLS THEN MICROSOFT!
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Not really a fair or accurate statement. It was already said by many that Sony's SDK was ahead of X1's. Not sure what your trying to get at, but we can leave it at that if you want to discuss it in this way.
 
Jackie_Fhan said:
That's just your idea, and seems if X1 didn't need that Esram and slower ram, it would have built even better to handle dx12 I'd say. I don't think X1 was built from the ground up to handle DX12 as you say, and if MS doesn't want to gimp PC in anyway, the PC should be doing a lot more with it technically.

Now, you can optimize anything for what you have. So, MS could in theory get more and add more into DX12 for specific GPU's obviously. I don't like the built from the gruond up idea your using here.

If anything THE DX12 X1 will have, will be built specifically for X1, not the other way around.
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Truth hurts you. I don't really care what you like. The people that designed and built the console have said so from day one, so who cares what you think?
 
Hammerclaw said:
Truth hurts you. I don't really care what you like. The people that designed and built the console have said so from day one, so who cares what you think?
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I didn't see truth at all actually, and it didn't hurt me at all I'd say. Seems you aren't discussing this and are just going with the negative and not very friendly tactics of semi-attacks. I still think the obvious and logical idea is that DX12 will have to be tailored for what X1 is, it's kind of obvious when X1 was built and designed before DX12 was finished though. Now sure if you understand that logically or not though. Why are you getting so defensive and saying such tactful things though, well.. that's up to you of course.
 
Jackie_Fhan said:
I didn't see truth at all actually, and it didn't hurt me at all I'd say. Seems you aren't discussing this and are just going with the negative and not very friendly tactics of semi-attacks. I still think the obvious and logical idea is that DX12 will have to be tailored for what X1 is, it's kind of obvious when X1 was built and designed before DX12 was finished though. Now sure if you understand that logically or not though. Why are you getting so defensive and saying such tactful things though, well.. that's up to you of course.
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Because you're wrong and your reputation as troublemaker precedes you.
 
Hammerclaw said:
Truth hurts you. I don't really care what you like. The people that designed and built the console have said so from day one, so who cares what you think?
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I didn't see truth at all actually, and it didn't hurt me at all I'd say. Seems you aren't discussing this and are just going with the negative and not very friendly tactics of semi-attacks. I still think the obvious and logical idea is that DX12 will have to be tailored for what X1 is, it's kind of obvious when X1 was built and designed before DX12 was finished though. Now sure if
Hammerclaw said:
Because you're wrong and your reputation as troublemaker precedes you.
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I don't agree, I only simply state my opinion. Your just assuming and can't take what I'm reading at face value. I don't see how I'm wrong, if X1 was built after DX12 was finished, then the idea that it was built for it would make a lot more sense..

MS isn't even finished with it, PC is still advancing and MS is going to continue to add to DX12 and could do more with it with more power available, and yes that is good that is exactly what they should do. Now, did they design parts of X1 with part of the ideas they were having with DX12 possibly, and I'd also say that they have scaled down/up some ideas due to X1 as well, which would sort of fit with their description of saying they designed X1 with DX12 in mind. I don't really beleive PR and talk from any company though, psychology plays a big rule in getting people to buy and want things, and that is what kind of info any company is going to release. I simply won't follow half that stuff, other than basic opinionated stuff, that's fine.

I hope the X1 does well with better performance, and I hope the physics things they have shown do come to fruition in more games, that is the sort of things I want out of it more than textures. Hope to see a game at E3 with that actual idea from anyone.
 
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Nervusbreakdown said:
This is where I think your wrong. I truly believe that MS will make it easier then the ps4 because they are a software company. MS just got a little slow coming out the gate and SONY just played it safe.

MS will still lead in software and there is nothing SONY can do about it.
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You forget that Sony bought a software company to do their tools this time round. The whole "Sony is hardware, MS is software" line of thought doesn't work as well this gen. Obviously, that doesn't mean my doubt isn't misplaced, but that is all it is doubt. Not really sure how anybody can be certain one way or the other at the moment.

Mcmasters said:
Actually, I disagree. Microsoft usually comes through with what they say they will. Now, once the results are released, sure, the general opinion will change from person to person. But we have no reason to believe that Microsoft wont come through with what they've stated. The other console maker on the other hand isnt as good at keeping their word to their fans.
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Unless I have missed something, all MS has said is that DX12 will improve performance. Nobody is doubting that. Seems pretty obvious that DX12 will improve performance. The question is how much, and none here know the answer to that. So a "Wait and see" reply is very much warranted.
 
menace-uk- said:
You forget that Sony bought a software company to do their tools this time round. The whole "Sony is hardware, MS is software" line of thought doesn't work as well this gen. Obviously, that doesn't mean my doubt isn't misplaced, but that is all it is doubt. Not really sure how anybody can be certain one way or the other at the moment.



Unless I have missed something, all MS has said is that DX12 will improve performance. Nobody is doubting that. Seems pretty obvious that DX12 will improve performance. The question is how much, and none here know the answer to that. So a "Wait and see" reply is very much warranted.
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It's better to see the results than believe any Pre hype notions from most companies. Yes, I think any half sane person would agree that the performance will increase, but by how much and by what we actually see on the screen will need to be a wait and see.
 
Jackie_Fhan said:
I didn't see truth at all actually, and it didn't hurt me at all I'd say. Seems you aren't discussing this and are just going with the negative and not very friendly tactics of semi-attacks. I still think the obvious and logical idea is that DX12 will have to be tailored for what X1 is, it's kind of obvious when X1 was built and designed before DX12 was finished though. Now sure if

I don't agree, I only simply state my opinion. Your just assuming and can't take what I'm reading at face value. I don't see how I'm wrong, if X1 was built after DX12 was finished, then the idea that it was built for it would make a lot more sense..
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Jackie, the graphics card in XB1 is a design that will run full a version DX12 no doubt enhanced for the Xbox One. Microsoft built the hardware, Microsoft built DX12. They knew it was coming but wasn't ready for the launch because they launched earlier than intended because of Sony launching earlier than they anticipated. I don't believe what I'm saying is true I know it's true. Since you can't disprove the truth, or offer anything more substantive than what you want to believe, you argument is without merit. Feel free to think and believe whatever you want, because I seriously do not care, nor does anyone else.
 
Hammerclaw said:
Jackie, the graphics card in XB1 is a design that will run full a version DX12 no doubt enhanced for the Xbox One. Microsoft built the hardware, Microsoft built DX12. They knew it was coming but wasn't ready for the launch because they launched earlier than intended because of Sony launching earlier than they anticipated. I don't believe what I'm saying is true I know it's true. Since you can't disprove the truth, or offer anything more substantive than what you want to believe, you argument is without merit. Feel free to think and believe whatever you want, because I seriously do not care, nor does anyone else.
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I'm sure someone cares :) again, your being irrational. You just stated MS released earlier than expected, seems they would have also changed the hardware a bit if they had planned to release a year later, that only kind of further proves DX12 will be designed for X1... It's fine, I think we simply disagree and have nothing else to discuss on the matter.
 
Multiple industry people have now repeatedly said both that the X1 is full DX12, and that the X1 will run ~at least~ twice as fast.

Porting a giant full Xbox One game to PC can be accomplished in weeks.

DX12 on XBox one is faster and easier to develop for on consoles. It is case closed, and continuing to suggest otherwise at this point should be considered trolling...

DX12 feeds your GPU so much faster than anything before (even you OpenGL fanboys take notice here) your Pre-DX12 video card will need a new cooling solution because it will overheat.

Just staph...
 
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