'Fixing' the image problem of female game characters. A visual illustration.

[Intellivision]

Funny how the images add 30-40 lbs to the fictitious video game characters, yet the artists barely touches the faces.

Most fat people I know also have really fat faces to go with it.

But I guess the PC thing is to criticize body images, but still retain respectable and pretty faces.

Also, there's a definite correlation between good looking slim/fit people and fat people. Good looking/slim/fit people also seem to dress better and put more effort into hair and make up and such.... an overall package they want to keep up. Fat people seem to have a bigger chance of "not giving a shyt" and they walk around town or come to work like they just got out of bed and threw on random clothes.

So a "more accurate portrayal of the average female" in those pics should be:

- Add some lbs (check)
- Make the faces fatter (not done)
- Make them less active (not done)
- Make them less stylishly clothed (not done)
- Make them less stylish..... make up and hair (not done)

 

[Registered User 1]

I thought women were already portrayed realistically. Every one of those women are either a tomb raider or a fighter. It would actually be unrealistic to have a chubby or out of shape athlete. People are just too insecure sometimes.

I don't know many serious athletes that have DD tit implants though... They'd be a slight hindrance. Unless they were going for the Kournikova road to selling out.

Much the same as I don't see most female boxers dressed for a stripper convention, and wearing 8 inch heels. Most females in fighting games look like they belong on a pole, instead if fighting for their life.

Do I think that should change? Not entirely.

I want my men in g-strings with massive pecs, abs that you can grate cheese on, and massive pendulous cocks, bouncing around as if they were on a trampoline on the moon in slow motion!

EQUALITY!!!

 

[Frozpot]

I don't know many serious athletes that have DD tit implants though... They'd be a slight hindrance. Unless they were going for the Kournikova road to selling out.

Much the same as I don't see most female boxers dressed for a stripper convention, and wearing 8 inch heels. Most females in fighting games look like they belong on a pole, instead if fighting for their life.

Do I think that should change? Not entirely.

I want my men in g-strings with massive pecs, abs that you can grate cheese on, and massive pendulous cocks, bouncing around as if they were on a trampoline on the moon in slow motion!

EQUALITY!!!

Oddly enough, they don't seem to be talking about the clothes all that much, lol. Regardless, I see feminists dressing like streetwalkers on purpose to make some point about not being ashamed and what not. So there is that.

On the other foot, I've never been a fan of the "bikini warrior" design asthetic. Never made sense to me, and personally, I think it's sexier when you leave something to the imagination. I think the new design for Lara Croft is much sexier than the old one.

Still need the cleavage though. Gotta let the ladies breathe... You get muscle-ey arms, I get the Cleave. It's alllll good.

 

[Registered User 1]

I just Google'd 'male armor vs female armor" and this came up...

http://vampjac.com/lj/humor/gygax/pointless_armor.jpg

VG cats had a bunch of comics about the exact same armor sets in rpgs having a slut factor lol.

 

[starseeker]

Seriously, the original pictures, barred Lara & the Zelda modesl (which are both cartoony), looks like a typical body type you can find here on the streets in Continental Europe & Eastern Asia countries.

This is completely bad. A justification for people to be feel ok to be fat. I think its very unhealthy & dangerous thing to do.

I can understand it can feel bad to be fat shamed, but unlike things like full head of hair, being short or not good looking, being slim & healthy is a choice! I do not buy the BS fat people used to justify themselves being fat. Once you blame everything bit yourself for being fat, & accpet its ok, you never will slim down. Take personal resposibility is the first step to be lean & healthy.

 

[Registered User 1]

...I've worked with models for a large portion of my life. The 1% of people that get photographed... And even they don't compare to most of these pics.

Miranda Kerr told me she starves herself of food and water for 24 hours before she steps foot on a catwalk to lose that dreadful water weight. She's a Victoria's Secret supermodel, and is barely a C-cup with padding.. Again, this 1% super model, doesn't have the tits handed to these characters.

In saying that, the "after" images are a bit on the fat side.

Then again, the women I work with are mostly a large B-cup, and I don't look at female porn, so these women look silly will to me.

On the other side of it, walk through a museum and look at ideal body types through history.

 

[Tommygun.]

I reject the premise of this.

You can't have a body like most of these and still do the things that anyone in nearly every video game does. Nathan Drake is f*ckin cut for a reason, he's gotta be or he's missing that jump that'll save his life. Lara Croft has to be athletic or she's gonna slip off a mountain and not have the necessary strength to pull herself back up.

Feck ye tossin gravy faces, extraordinary circumstances call for extraordinary people, not the body you got from barista-ing all day.

however I can't comment on breast sizes. When it's gets bad it's usually japanese. You just can't have a real conversation when it comes to their media. Western cases (in games that aren't stupid like that trucker shooter actiony whatever) are usually within acceptable media parameters, compared to movies or tv.

 

[Andy]

This is completely bad. A justification for people to be feel ok to be fat. I think its very unhealthy & dangerous thing to do.

I don't get the "fat" comments. I live down south, and believe me, that ain't fat. They're fatter than the originals, sure, but they're not fat. They're average.

Here's fat:

 

[starseeker]

^
That morbidly obese! Also, average and (acceptable/ideal/normal) weight is not the same thing!

The problem with FAT, is, its very relative& changes over time, & base on region.

Taking USA as an example, a person would be consider fat in 1960 will be considered average in 2015, because sadly, obesity has growth so much over the few decades. The 'L' size in 1990 could be the new 'M' size in 2015.

http://www.niddk.nih.gov/health-inf...tics/Pages/overweight-obesity-statistics.aspx

Base on report (link), 2/3 of Americans are overweight (BMI over 25), which means an average American is overweight.

But

Average weight of a nation =|= Normal (Ideal) weight.

An average weight of a 3rd world country can be underweight, while in many developed countries, can be overweight

When we see being overweight as being the norm, our image of normal (acceptable) weight unconciously adjusted to be slightly (or more than slightly) overweight!

People only really started to realised that when people started traveling, & then notice how their defination of underweight or overweight fairly considered normal in other nations.

The best (not perfect) way to see if one is 'fat' or not is to use the BMI chart. The photoshopped video game character would probably fall around the 30-34 cat, & be considered obese, & the jumping wmen would be at least in the 40s.

Obese is considered overweight level that has moderate health risk (due to fatness), & Morbidly Obese being a serious health risk.

1 in 3 Adult in US is obese (see link). Also disturbing is 1/3 kids are considered overweight. Thats a very high number.

 

[Registered User 1]

* fuller figured.

Hang out at a rock climbing centre, and see how well the super thin girls perform.

Again, these women mostly aren't of an athletic build.

 

[Registered User 1]

I find it crazy that Tifa has the second smallest bust size out of all those girls...

If you compared these girls next to your average playboy bunny, I think the bunny's would still lose.

 

[Andy]

^
That morbidly obese! Also, average and (acceptable/ideal/normal) weight is not the same thing!

The problem with FAT, is, its very relative& changes over time, & base on region.

Taking USA as an example, a person would be consider fat in 1960 will be considered average in 2015, because sadly, obesity has growth so much over the few decades. The 'L' size in 1990 could be the new 'M' size in 2015.

http://www.niddk.nih.gov/health-inf...tics/Pages/overweight-obesity-statistics.aspx

Base on report (link), 2/3 of Americans are overweight (BMI over 25), which means an average American is overweight.

But

Average weight of a nation =|= Normal (Ideal) weight.

An average weight of a 3rd world country can be underweight, while in many developed countries, can be overweight

When we see being overweight as being the norm, our image of normal (acceptable) weight unconciously adjusted to be slightly (or more than slightly) overweight!

People only really started to realised that when people started traveling, & then notice how their defination of underweight or overweight fairly considered normal in other nations.

The best (not perfect) way to see if one is 'fat' or not is to use the BMI chart. The photoshopped video game character would probably fall around the 30-34 cat, & be considered obese, & the jumping wmen would be at least in the 40s.

Obese is considered overweight level that has moderate health risk (due to fatness), & Morbidly Obese being a serious health risk.

1 in 3 Adult in US is obese (see link). Also disturbing is 1/3 kids are considered overweight. Thats a very high number.

Thanks for the stats, but it doesn't change my opinion. Those are average-proportioned women, not fat women.

p.s. Of course, for a globe-trotting tomb raider or a professional fighter, they'd be out of shape, but I'm just talking about the basic body type. They fall well within the average range.

 

[Obscene Jester]

If that's supposed to be average, people should put down the game controller and get to a damn gym.

 

[Lucid Rifter]

 

[Frozpot]

^
That morbidly obese! Also, average and (acceptable/ideal/normal) weight is not the same thing!

The problem with FAT, is, its very relative& changes over time, & base on region.

Taking USA as an example, a person would be consider fat in 1960 will be considered average in 2015, because sadly, obesity has growth so much over the few decades. The 'L' size in 1990 could be the new 'M' size in 2015.

http://www.niddk.nih.gov/health-inf...tics/Pages/overweight-obesity-statistics.aspx

Base on report (link), 2/3 of Americans are overweight (BMI over 25), which means an average American is overweight.

But

Average weight of a nation =|= Normal (Ideal) weight.

An average weight of a 3rd world country can be underweight, while in many developed countries, can be overweight

When we see being overweight as being the norm, our image of normal (acceptable) weight unconciously adjusted to be slightly (or more than slightly) overweight!

People only really started to realised that when people started traveling, & then notice how their defination of underweight or overweight fairly considered normal in other nations.

The best (not perfect) way to see if one is 'fat' or not is to use the BMI chart. The photoshopped video game character would probably fall around the 30-34 cat, & be considered obese, & the jumping wmen would be at least in the 40s.

Obese is considered overweight level that has moderate health risk (due to fatness), & Morbidly Obese being a serious health risk.

1 in 3 Adult in US is obese (see link). Also disturbing is 1/3 kids are considered overweight. Thats a very high number.

Not sure why you are bringing in ridiculous stats like that. I've seen extremely healthy people fall into the "obese" category because they aren't within the flawed BMI limits. I'm talking people with little body fat, even.

Beyond that, I think it's hilarious and insulting that that "diagram" somehow lists the US vs "worldwide", lol. As if the cultures and obesity levels are the same in other countries. Didn't Mexico pass the US as most "obese" recently? certainly poorer countries with much less food/economic wealth will skew the "worldwide" numbers. 1 in 3 kids are not obese, at least not anywhere I've lived, and I've lived in a lot of different States. Sure there are fat people/kids, but there are a LOT of healthy people as well.

That said, those artistic alterations are not indicative of "average", or even healthy, lol.

I like Lara's new representation. She looks about how she should, and doesn't have "over-sexualized" proportions. Honestly, it's all artistic stylization, so just leave the s*** alone, and don't buy it if you don't like it!

 

[Andy]

That said, those artistic alterations are not indicative of "average"

Actually, they are. From the OP: "We altered some of the most beloved female video game characters with Adobe Photoshop, shaping their bodies into images that represent the average American woman’s measurements."

 

[starseeker]

Not sure why you are bringing in ridiculous stats like that. I've seen extremely healthy people fall into the "obese" category because they aren't within the flawed BMI limits. I'm talking people with little body fat, even.

Beyond that, I think it's hilarious and insulting that that "diagram" somehow lists the US vs "worldwide", lol. As if the cultures and obesity levels are the same in other countries. Didn't Mexico pass the US as most "obese" recently? certainly poorer countries with much less food/economic wealth will skew the "worldwide" numbers. 1 in 3 kids are not obese, at least not anywhere I've lived, and I've lived in a lot of different States. Sure there are fat people/kids, but there are a LOT of healthy people as well.

That said, those artistic alterations are not indicative of "average", or even healthy, lol.

I like Lara's new representation. She looks about how she should, and doesn't have "over-sexualized" proportions. Honestly, it's all artistic stylization, so just leave the s*** alone, and don't buy it if you don't like it!

I do agree the figures of the Worldwide figures are not a perfect & fair comparsion, but its still alarm setting.

There are actually a few countries that exceed USA, from Middle east & south/central America, last time I checked. I quote USA as its relavent to the discussion (as most can relate). Also while its not number one anymore, its still top 10, which is an improvement from number one, . Its not because US has slimed down, but rather others have exceed US!

Anyway, I only quote the figures from the data, & mileage will varies depends on personal experience & location. & also to note, overweight & obese is not the same. Obese is an overweight level to be considered of heath risk.
1 in 3 kids are overweight overall (not obese) in America according to report. I am only the messager.

You be surprise how easy it is to be over or underweight, as the band for aceptable weight is pretty narrow.

Here is an image to give you an idea of BMI vs bodyshape.

 

[starseeker]

Close enough.

 

[Intellivision]

BMI index only applies as a broad based gauge for people who aren't active.

Go to a gym and you'll see super fit people who can weigh just as much as a guy watching TV all day. One guy is fit and muscular, the other guy has a big pot belly, but their weight/BMI index might be similar. So the guy in shape technically gets a bad BMI rating.

The BMI image confirms this as no people in that picture shows anyone who has an ounce of muscle definition.

 

[Frozpot]

Actually, they are. From the OP: "We altered some of the most beloved female video game characters with Adobe Photoshop, shaping their bodies into images that represent the average American woman’s measurements."

LOL, Ok. The problem there is that "Average" tends to be a mean. Like you may have a lot of people on each "end", and the average ends up being there, but doesn't really show what the "average" person looks like :/

Regardless of what "average" is, I'm not sure why that even matters, as these characters don't represent average. They represent extraordinary. That goes for males and females. Although I will say that I see more males in shape than females, but that is likely due to our biological dimorphism. .... Ok, we are getting too deep here, lol...

 

[Frozpot]

Man, Cortana is built almost exactly like my wife (who is actually slightly smaller).

 

[Andy]

LOL, Ok. The problem there is that "Average" tends to be a mean. Like you may have a lot of people on each "end", and the average ends up being there, but doesn't really show what the "average" person looks like :/

So the problem with "average" is that it represents an average? I'm not trying to be a d*ck, but of course average is a mean. That's what average "means."

Regardless of what "average" is, I'm not sure why that even matters, as these characters don't represent average. They represent extraordinary. That goes for males and females.

I agree. These aren't normal characters, and so they wouldn't have average bodies.

 

[Videodrome]

So the problem with "average" is that it represents an average? I'm not trying to be a d*ck, but of course average is a mean. That's what average "means."



I agree. These aren't normal characters, and so they wouldn't have average bodies.

Is it possible that a discussion could be about a population's Eye Color and in said population, roughly half of them have Blue Eyes and half have Green Eyes. So a government bureaucrat overseeing health statistics writes a paper saying the average person has eyes that are Cyan? (a mix of Green and Blue?)

Just trying to rephrase what I think Frozpot is saying. That statistics are used to say what that Average weight is yet maybe in reality there are few people that fit into that category.

It's the same numbers game if you say the average family has 2.5 kids.

 

[Andy]

Is it possible that a discussion could be about a population's Eye Color and in said population, roughly half of them have Blue Eyes and half have Green Eyes. So a government bureaucrat overseeing health statistics writes a paper saying the average person has eyes that are Cyan? (a mix of Green and Blue?)

Just trying to rephrase what I think Frozpot is saying. That statistics are used to say what that Average weight is yet maybe in reality there are few people that fit into that category.

It's the same numbers game if you say the average family has 2.5 kids.

So the point is that there is no one person in the population who has "average" measurements, like there is no one with exactly 2.5 kids, exactly average height, exactly average weight, exactly average income, etc? Well, it depends on how precisely you specify the average, but putting aside that issue, I don't see the point. I don't see how that matters. It's still an average measurement, like any other statistic -- average income, height, bedrooms, square footage, whatever.

My point was that those are average measurements. At least, that's what the article purports -- and I assume it's accurate, since it's by a bunch of women with eating disorders, and they specialize in obsessing over these things.

Anyhow, it's probably better thought of as an average range, rather than a specific number... Bell curve and all.

 

[Intellivision]

My point was that those are average measurements. At least, that's what the article purports -- and I assume it's accurate, since it's by a bunch of women with eating disorders, and they specialize in obsessing over these things.

A website representing people who jam fingers down their throat to throw up is in no position to tell others what to do with their bodies..... or in this case adjusting the bodies of other people's art. And that's ignoring the fact it's video games..... entertainment which always skews to the extreme to get away from normal life..... just like movies, books, painting etc.... Music too. Music is always about emotions about extreme things... love, violence, conflict etc.... You don't see people singing songs about getting up in the morning, eating breakfast and driving to work.

Now if those adjusted pics came from nutritional experts and super fit gurus promoting exercise and good eating habits who are saying the art is extreme compared to real life people that would be more fitting.

It's like financial advice. To build up assets, I'd rather listen to a successful millionaire teaching about how to invest, save money, and look for deals, as opposed to a gambler who lost all his money.

 

[Registered User 1]

Man, Cortana is built almost exactly like my wife (who is actually slightly smaller).

The before, or the after?

After the first Mystique in Xmen, I thought Jennifer Lawrence was too tubby as the same character... But then I think she is a babe any other day of the week.

 

[Registered User 1]

or in this case adjusting the bodies of other people's art. And that's ignoring the fact it's video games....

I agree with almost all of your post except for this bit (and the bit about being lectured by "people jamming their fingers down their throat"... Professionals eat napkins or use a tooth brush.).

As industries mature and get taken more seriously, and even as they do etch closer to the realm of art, I think they take on a social conscious, whether its welcomed or not.

Its happened in sport (racial/sexual), fashion (fashion weeks around the world are refusing models with "unhealthy bmi"), and in music.

So why should it not happen to gaming? Have there been any plus sized women in games that aren't represents as either being a slob/disgusting/offensive? I hope there are.

Where's Oprah when you need her!


I think, what I'm trying to say here, is that we need Frozpot to post a bunch of shirtless pictures. Or photos of him cleaning the pool. I feel they will add something missing from this debate...

 

[Frozpot]

The before, or the after?

After the first Mystique in Xmen, I thought Jennifer Lawrence was too tubby as the same character... But then I think she is a babe any other day of the week.

Before. Definitely before.

As far as Mystic- I agree. Lawrence is definitely the hotness, but she isn't terribly... Lithe..? I think that's it. I'm not sure if that's just because we are used to Rebecca-Romaine. I don't see her as a super hereo type, I guess.

 

[jimmyD]

The only problem is women haven't figured out how to hide the weight behind make-up yet.

 

[hrudey]

Man, Cortana is built almost exactly like my wife (who is actually slightly smaller).

Have you upgraded your spouse to have a mute button?

(And I presume you are more than smart enough to not even suggest such a thing).