Game Lineup Comparisons v. 1.5

[This_Hard_Land]

Didn't bother with the rest of the post. I'm just going to chime in by saying I can do my thinking for myself, so please stop being so pretentious and assuming/claiming you know how "most" of us work. Especially considering only one of the questions, maybe two if we're generous, you posed has anything close to do with a game actually being fun, not to mention there is no reasonable way for us to determine an answer to #4.

In my opinion, one sign of fanboyism is when the person in question wants to do your thinking for you.

Show me a game that has generated hype from the modern core gaming community that didn't fulfill at least one of those parameters.

Those 5 parameters play a massive role in how this industry perceives upcoming games. It's just fact.

BTW, I'm not suggesting that any individual can't look at both 2016 lists and prefer Microsoft's. I'm just saying, the industry on the whole doesn't vibe that way.

 

[Zcythe]

Show me a game that has generated hype from the modern core gaming community that didn't fulfill at least one of those parameters.

Those 5 parameters play a massive role in how this industry perceives upcoming games. It's just fact.

Um no. Do your own damn legwork dude. Here comes the spin though. You know damn well that someone could cherry pick one from a list of parameters to suit their particular argument. You presented your list as a comprehensive list games are held against, which is fine, but that is your subjective opinion, not fact. Spin all you want though. It's all just an attempt to cover your ass and assuage your ego.

Does the game look fun?
Does it look like it provides replay value?
If I'm on the fence, then who is making it and what have the made before this?

The only questions I need. I sure as hell don't need to concern myself with whether or not they had artistic freedom, whether it's a new IP, or how long it's been since the last iteration. My list doesn't necessarily have to be a comprehensive one either, and it isn't fact, it's just my own damn list.

 

[This_Hard_Land]

Um no. Do your own damn legwork dude. Here comes the spin though. You know damn well that someone could cherry pick one from a list of parameters to suit their particular argument. You presented your list as a comprehensive list games are held against, which is fine, but that is your subjective opinion, not fact. Spin all you want though. It's all just an attempt to cover your ass and assuage your ego.

Does the game look fun?
Does it look like it provides replay value?
If I'm on the fence, then who is making it and what have the made before this?

The only questions I need. I sure as hell don't need to concern myself with whether or not they had artistic freedom, whether it's a new IP, or how long it's been since the last iteration. My list doesn't necessarily have to be a comprehensive one either, and it isn't fact, it's just my own damn list.

You're right.

You don't need to base your perception of upcoming games based on the set of 5 parameters I laid out. Of course you don't.

The industry does though. That's what's a fact.

 

[Zcythe]

You're right.

You don't need to base your perception of upcoming games based on the set of 5 parameters I laid out. Of course you don't.

The industry does though. That's what's a fact.

Yeah, if the industry came down to one person: you. Fortunately it doesn't, so again not a fact, just your opinion. At you trying to spin it as an industry standard now though.

 

[Andy]

*COUGH*Duke Nukem*COUGH*

A delay doesn't mean you get a good game, just a better one.

 

[This_Hard_Land]

Yeah, if the industry came down to one person: you. Fortunately it doesn't, so again not a fact, just your opinion. At you trying to spin it as an industry standard now though.

No, I'm just saying that I've been a part of this industry long enough to see the rubric for what generates hype/buzz/interest from whoever the taste-makers are in this industry.

Your inability to produce one game, that didn't fall under that rubric kind of proves my point doesn't it?

In fact, aren't the questions you created, basically less sophisticated versions of what I wrote.

Does the game look fun? Could the game be exceptional?
Does it look like it provides replay value? Could the game be exceptional? Replay value is after all, a product of exceptional game design.
If I'm on the fence, then who is making it and what have the made before this? Do the developers have a noteworthy track record?

I feel like I'm repeating myself here but I do think games that fail each of my 5 parameter rubric can still be good when they finally release. I'm just saying that they don't create industry interest/buzz like the ones that do...um do.

I mean, you can't just read my post, agree with it, not like what it means for your plastic of choice, and just flip the table over and storm off. Let's be adults here.

One thing that frustrates me about communities like this is a total inability to recognize/appreciate interesting games on competing platforms by most people. It's like New York Knicks fans in the 1990's commenting on Michael Jordan by saying "Yeah, he alright" or "He's decent but he's definitely overrated." It's just so childish to me.

 

[Plainview]

One thing that frustrates me about communities like this is a total inability to recognize/appreciate interesting games on competing platforms by most people

And in this very thread you've shown you're part of the problem you just described.

 

[This_Hard_Land]

And in this very thread you've shown you're part of the problem you just described.

This is outrageous.

First of all, here are the following things I've praised MS for both inside and outside of this thread.

- Turn 10 Studios
- Titanfall
- Phil Spencer
- The XBO's Q4 2015 lineup
- Certain Halo 5 directions
- Microsoft's aggressive pricing strategy
- Remedy/Quantum Break
- Sea of Thieves
- Recore
- Microsoft's future indie exclusives

And I haven't mentioned this yet but I think Microsoft's push for improvements in online infrastructure and UI absolutely keeps Sony honest in that area. I'd hate to see what PSN would look like if XBL never existed.

The thing is, people don't remember these things because it gets washed away by the rest of the noise here. I mean, I've know I've said that if the PS4 went up in smoke tomorrow, I'd get in line the very next day to buy an XBO.

I just think it's strange how each and every year, the same people defend the same yearly lineups, despite the fact that the output is so new and so different each year. Yeah, the XBO had the better launch, the better 2014, the better 2015, and probably the better 2016 right? I wonder what these people will say about 2017. It's absolutely asinine to me.

 

[de3d1]

It's like New York Knicks fans in the 1990's commenting on Michael Jordan by saying "Yeah, he alright" or "He's decent but he's definitely overrated." It's just so childish to me.

Jordan and sony do have a lot in common though.

PS2 generation sony was #23, the pinnacle, no doubt everyone knows it with no argument. They had the games and the sales.

Last gen with PS3, sony was the #45 version of Jordan, some remnants of #23 for sure, but nothing like original.

This gen with PS4 is like the Wizard's Jordan. He's wearing the #23, but its just not him anymore. He can still sell a ton of tickets and hype(or consoles in sony's case) but other that its just a reminder of what we had. Even the hardcore fans have trouble arguing for them, and it shows.

Hey Mike, at least you can still fill a stadium.

 

[yankeessuck]

 

[de3d1]

 

[Dno69]

THL. I appreciate your unique perspective. But I think you may be overthinking the whole process.

Also I don't think that most people dismiss interesting games based on exclusivity but rather on preference. Bloodborne for example, is a great game that I have very little interest in.

 

[Zcythe]

No, I'm just saying that I've been a part of this industry long enough to see the rubric for what generates hype/buzz/interest from whoever the taste-makers are in this industry.

Well isn't someone full of himself? Childish.

Your inability to produce one game, that didn't fall under that rubric kind of proves my point doesn't it?

I'm sure you think it does. Also, it's not inability, I'm just not compelled.

In fact, aren't the questions you created, basically less sophisticated versions of what I wrote.

For two them sure, possibly. Although one of those is pretty generous.

I mean, you can't just read my post, agree with it, not like what it means for your plastic of choice, and just flip the table over and storm off. Let's be adults here.

This both childish and a fan boy argument. Why even bring it up? I haven't discussed anything regarding "plastic" with you regarding the matter.

 

[BIGJOHN]

This guy goes into PlayStation 4 diehards after a SONY executive admits their lack of big exclusive titles.


Will Ferrell plays a Playstation fan in denile. Let's watch it how it plays out:

 

[Kvally]

This is outrageous.

First of all, here are the following things I've praised MS for both inside and outside of this thread.

- Turn 10 Studios
- Titanfall
- Phil Spencer
- The XBO's Q4 2015 lineup
- Certain Halo 5 directions
- Microsoft's aggressive pricing strategy
- Remedy/Quantum Break
- Sea of Thieves
- Recore
- Microsoft's future indie exclusives

And I haven't mentioned this yet but I think Microsoft's push for improvements in online infrastructure and UI absolutely keeps Sony honest in that area. I'd hate to see what PSN would look like if XBL never existed.

The thing is, people don't remember these things because it gets washed away by the rest of the noise here. I mean, I've know I've said that if the PS4 went up in smoke tomorrow, I'd get in line the very next day to buy an XBO.

I just think it's strange how each and every year, the same people defend the same yearly lineups, despite the fact that the output is so new and so different each year. Yeah, the XBO had the better launch, the better 2014, the better 2015, and probably the better 2016 right? I wonder what these people will say about 2017. It's absolutely asinine to me.

What are your gamer tags?

 

[Plainview]

This is outrageous.

First of all, here are the following things I've praised MS for both inside and outside of this thread.

- Turn 10 Studios
- Titanfall
- Phil Spencer
- The XBO's Q4 2015 lineup
- Certain Halo 5 directions
- Microsoft's aggressive pricing strategy
- Remedy/Quantum Break
- Sea of Thieves
- Recore
- Microsoft's future indie exclusives

And I haven't mentioned this yet but I think Microsoft's push for improvements in online infrastructure and UI absolutely keeps Sony honest in that area. I'd hate to see what PSN would look like if XBL never existed.

The thing is, people don't remember these things because it gets washed away by the rest of the noise here. I mean, I've know I've said that if the PS4 went up in smoke tomorrow, I'd get in line the very next day to buy an XBO.

I just think it's strange how each and every year, the same people defend the same yearly lineups, despite the fact that the output is so new and so different each year. Yeah, the XBO had the better launch, the better 2014, the better 2015, and probably the better 2016 right? I wonder what these people will say about 2017. It's absolutely asinine to me.

Anytime you post anything of merit it's completely ignored because of your constant barrage of passive aggressive fanboy egotistical nonsense. In this thread you gave reasons, stupid reasons, as to why you intentionally omitted big games for the Xbox One when you laundry listed your absurd notion that the PS4 2016 lineup is head and shoulders above the Xbox One's. In this thread you displayed exactly, to a T, what you claimed is a problem with forums.

 

[yankeessuck]

This guy goes into PlayStation 4 diehards after a SONY executive admits their lack of big exclusive titles.

More like some guy creates clickbait fanboy videos in a desperate attempt to get big on Youtube.

 

[starseeker]

First world problem, arguing over line up of a brand....

Sigh...
I have not been able to link 2 nights together for a good sleep for the past few months. YOu can't read any newspapers, listen to radios, media, & TV without mention of the refugees problems every hour. Fighting in camps which is a reguiar occurance (friendly bunch of people), crimes, finanical burden, & there is no end in sight of these people coming. 10,000 a day, in a county of 81million. 1-1.5 million expected this year alone!

All thanks to one woman & her big mouth.

Thats not including the famiiles mostly men (80%) will bring later. Expected maybe 7million a year! Maybe Germany as we know now will be gone in 10 years, or a civil war will occured in the next 10-20 years.

I am started to look elsewhere where they looking for automotive engineers in Canada & USA, or return to Singapore where I was born & my parents still live.

Sorry for the rant, please continue with arguing about which system lineup is better.

 

[David]

I prefer the XB1 line up but why do people keep acting like it is a fact that it is better or you are a fanboy if you think otherwise. It is all personal preference.lol

Because they are closet fanboys.

 

[OneBadMutha]

This comparison is subjective however there are objective facts.

Through 2016, MS will have invested more in developing their own exclusives.
By the end of 2015 and through the end of 2016, there will be more big budget exclusives on Xbox One than PS4.

MS's current focus is expanding it's lineup of exclusive IPs and investing more in big exclusives than they did last gen. Sony's is not. You don't need to play list wars to figure this out. Listen to the bosses of the platforms. While MS is actively seeking out new IPs, Sony has admitted that they are scaling back large development projects. They are touting the variety and creativity of the smaller games. They also get exclusive support from many Japanese developers who's games do not sell in the West.

I honestly think that's where the discussion lies. The platform with fewer total number of exclusives however more big budget games vs. the console that has less of those large, standout games but has a ton of variety. One console's exclusive lineup is obviously tailored to North America, UK, and similar markets while the other takes a larger worldwide approach. There is nothing wrong with either approach.

The strategy you prefer is subjective. The strategy that benefits you depends on where you're from and what type of gamer you are. The strategy each company has taken really isn't. Neither boss is hiding their cards really well.

So when some knucklehead reviewer at Gamespot rolls their eyes at the last Quantum Break demo because MS took a potentially interesting looking new IP and "ruined it by making it just another shooter"....they ruined it for who? That's pretentious and doesn't add any value when it comes to analysis. Knuckleheads like that are why Metacritic and list wars means nothing in this discussion.

What are the strategies?
Who's executing on their strategy?
Who's strategy do you prefer?

 

[Dno69]

Not to mention that Sony will put at least some resources into VR. How much? Who knows.

I don't think it will be a Kinect type situation though. Mostly indie groups with new ideas and probably some of Sonys more experimental studios messing with it.

But depending on its success, it could pull bigger studios in.

 

[yankeessuck]

Through 2016, MS will have invested more in developing their own exclusives.

Subjective

By the end of 2015 and through the end of 2016, there will be more big budget exclusives on Xbox One than PS4.

Subjective

MS's current focus is expanding it's lineup of exclusive IPs and investing more in big exclusives than they did last gen. Sony's is not.

Subjective

Sony has admitted that they are scaling back large development projects.

Not technically true. They did float the idea that bigger budgets could lead to less of those game.

They are touting the variety and creativity of the smaller games. They also get exclusive support from many Japanese developers who's games do not sell in the West.

Who cares if they sell well in the west? As long as they are good and reach the whatever bar makes them success then its good news. Not every game has to sell like Halo and that is good because most don't

 

[Dno69]

Can I have a list of people that are claiming that one lineup is better than the other as a fact? I'm only seeing opinions. Sometimes supported, but mostly not.

 

[OneBadMutha]

Subjective



Subjective

Not subjective. The majority of those PS4 exclusives are not big budget games. Having games exclusive because it doesn't make business sense to develop for the Xbox (Japanese RPGs, Indies) is a different subject matter.

Playstation boss himself said it doesn't make sense to invest in costly projects based on how the console is selling and how 3rd parties and Indies are making their gamers happy.

 

[yankeessuck]

Not subjective. The majority of those PS4 exclusives are not big budget games. Having games exclusive because it doesn't make business sense to develop for the Xbox (Japanese RPGs, Indies) is a different subject matter.

What are the budgets for these games? What is the cut off point that makes a game big budget and how is determining whatever that number is not subjective?

And it seems like you have already prepared reasons why some of those might not even count as if it makes a difference what kind of check Sony may or may not have wrote to get an exclusive. Would it be fair to mention in that case who has more of an investment in first party studios because you didn't mention that?

 

[This_Hard_Land]

Anytime you post anything of merit it's completely ignored because of your constant barrage of passive aggressive fanboy egotistical nonsense. In this thread you gave reasons, stupid reasons, as to why you intentionally omitted big games for the Xbox One when you laundry listed your absurd notion that the PS4 2016 lineup is head and shoulders above the Xbox One's. In this thread you displayed exactly, to a T, what you claimed is a problem with forums.

"...passive aggressive fanboy egotistical..."

I have no idea why you're using those words to describe me. I've been nothing but fair the entire time I've been here. I suspect so much ire is directed towards me because this is one of the last bastions for XBox fans/fanboys. Everything is blown out of proportion because I appreciate an unpopular company here.

I omitted big games for the XBox One? How can I omit games when I never once alluded to providing a comprehensive 2016 XBox One game list? Are you referencing the list of four games (Gears 4, Sea of Thieves, Crackdown 3, Recore) I provided that each have multiple reasons for concern?

It all comes down to those five, very fair, and very reasonable questions I laid out to determine how a game gains excitement in this industry. Those five questions, can be used in 2017, 2018, 2019 etc..and if Nintendo has a lineup that caters to those questions, or if Microsoft does in a particular year, I'll gladly recognize that. The fact remains, according to those guidelines, Sony has amassed a collection of supremely impressive titles next year. Barring mass delays and/or massive game announcements, I just don't see MS or Nintendo getting close, NEXT YEAR. 2017 is anyone's game.

 

[Plainview]

"...passive aggressive fanboy egotistical..."

I have no idea why you're using those words to describe me. I've been nothing but fair the entire time I've been here.

No, you haven't Smilebit.

 

[This_Hard_Land]

This comparison is subjective however there are objective facts.

Alright! Let's have some fun!

Through 2016, MS will have invested more in developing their own exclusives.

What does this mean? MS will have invested more in developing their own exclusives compared to Sony? Compared to what they invested in in 2015? Compared to what they invest in 3rd party relationships? You could be right here. We would just like to know what you're referring to and where you're getting your numbers from.

By the end of 2015 and through the end of 2016, there will be more big budget exclusives on Xbox One than PS4.

I think this statement is fair to make. It does seem a little odd that you're not concerned with quality big budget exclusives though. Are we really giving Microsoft and Sony props for games like Ryse and The Order?

MS's current focus is expanding it's lineup of exclusive IPs and investing more in big exclusives than they did last gen. Sony's is not. You don't need to play list wars to figure this out. Listen to the bosses of the platforms. While MS is actively seeking out new IPs, Sony has admitted that they are scaling back large development projects. They are touting the variety and creativity of the smaller games. They also get exclusive support from many Japanese developers who's games do not sell in the West.

Oops, I think you might have flown off the handle here.

1) When would Sony, Microsoft, or Nintendo ever say that they're not focused on "expanding their lineup of exclusive IP's"? This PR speak is what all the companies have been saying since videogame PR speak began.

2) MS is investing more in big exclusives than they did last gen? Sony is not? Can you tell us where you're pulling these numbers from? Once again I would like to congratulate you for turning the conversation towards objective facts, but we really need to see how much money each company is spending this generation compared to last generation to see if there is any truth to this statement.

3) Yes, Microsoft has stated they are actively seeking out new IP's, but they've said that since their foray into the console industry. I suspect they said the same stuff when they were a smaller PC game software company too.

4) Sony has admitted that they are scaling back large development projects? We really need to see who is saying these things for Sony. Can you cite a source for this so we can all see it?

5) Sony is touting the variety and creativity of smaller games? Yeah, I think Sony PR has actually referenced this particular strength of their platfrom.

6) Japanese games do not sell in the west? Final Fantasy, Final Fantasy Online, Dragon Quest, Resident Evil, Monster Hunter, Street Fighter, Metal Gear Solid, Kingdom Hearts, Dynasty Warriors Heroes, Devil May Cry, Persona, Dead Rising, and Ace Attorney are all franchises who have had modern installments sell north of at least 1 million units. They sell in the west and they are all critically lauded in the west too. Those are all 3rd party franchises. Let's not forget Sony and Nintendo have some Japanese developers/franchises that do alright as well.

I honestly think that's where the discussion lies. The platform with fewer total number of exclusives however more big budget games vs. the console that has less of those large, standout games but has a ton of variety. One console's exclusive lineup is obviously tailored to North America, UK, and similar markets while the other takes a larger worldwide approach. There is nothing wrong with either approach.

I think you nail this right on the head though in terms of the past. The XBox One kind of had the reputation for having more big budget exclusives up to this point and through the rest of 2015. What you didn't address is that Sony's internal development studio's dwarf Microsoft's in terms of size. They aren't as efficient, lately, but the sheer number of studio's who produce big budget exclusives lie is Sony's favor, considerably.

So when some knucklehead reviewer at Gamespot rolls their eyes at the last Quantum Break demo because MS took a potentially interesting looking new IP and "ruined it by making it just another shooter"....they ruined it for who? That's pretentious and doesn't add any value when it comes to analysis. Knuckleheads like that are why Metacritic and list wars means nothing in this discussion.

If Remedy turns Quantum Break into an Uncharted/Gears of War clone, I'll be very upset. I'll have to read the Gamespot article because I was not aware of this. However, I think that particular Gamespot writer is speaking about what he believes and he's speaking to his audience. I think the gaming media has a responsibility to cut down games that fail to offer us new experiences. I just hope he's not correct about Quantum Break.

 

[Troublegum]

The best thing about this thread is that it has just made me rediscover "Weird Al" Yankovic.

 

[Kvally]

Alright! Let's have some fun!



What does this mean? MS will have invested more in developing their own exclusives compared to Sony? Compared to what they invested in in 2015? Compared to what they invest in 3rd party relationships? You could be right here. We would just like to know what you're referring to and where you're getting your numbers from.



I think this statement is fair to make. It does seem a little odd that you're not concerned with quality big budget exclusives though. Are we really giving Microsoft and Sony props for games like Ryse and The Order?



Oops, I think you might have flown off the handle here.

1) When would Sony, Microsoft, or Nintendo ever say that they're not focused on "expanding their lineup of exclusive IP's"? This PR speak is what all the companies have been saying since videogame PR speak began.

2) MS is investing more in big exclusives than they did last gen? Sony is not? Can you tell us where you're pulling these numbers from? Once again I would like to congratulate you for turning the conversation towards objective facts, but we really need to see how much money each company is spending this generation compared to last generation to see if there is any truth to this statement.

3) Yes, Microsoft has stated they are actively seeking out new IP's, but they've said that since their foray into the console industry. I suspect they said the same stuff when they were a smaller PC game software company too.

4) Sony has admitted that they are scaling back large development projects? We really need to see who is saying these things for Sony. Can you cite a source for this so we can all see it?

5) Sony is touting the variety and creativity of smaller games? Yeah, I think Sony PR has actually referenced this particular strength of their platfrom.

6) Japanese games do not sell in the west? Final Fantasy, Final Fantasy Online, Dragon Quest, Resident Evil, Monster Hunter, Street Fighter, Metal Gear Solid, Kingdom Hearts, Dynasty Warriors Heroes, Devil May Cry, Persona, Dead Rising, and Ace Attorney are all franchises who have had modern installments sell north of at least 1 million units. They sell in the west and they are all critically lauded in the west too. Those are all 3rd party franchises. Let's not forget Sony and Nintendo have some Japanese developers/franchises that do alright as well.



I think you nail this right on the head though in terms of the past. The XBox One kind of had the reputation for having more big budget exclusives up to this point and through the rest of 2015. What you didn't address is that Sony's internal development studio's dwarf Microsoft's in terms of size. They aren't as efficient, lately, but the sheer number of studio's who produce big budget exclusives lie is Sony's favor, considerably.



If Remedy turns Quantum Break into an Uncharted/Gears of War clone, I'll be very upset. I'll have to read the Gamespot article because I was not aware of this. However, I think that particular Gamespot writer is speaking about what he believes and he's speaking to his audience. I think the gaming media has a responsibility to cut down games that fail to offer us new experiences. I just hope he's not correct about Quantum Break.

What are your gamer tags?