Killzone: Shadow Fall Thread

Obscene Jester said:
Dat interlacing upscaler.

It's funny, but if it took 4 months for anyone to notice does it matter?
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Again no, guys.. please change your wording. "took 4 months for DF and a few warrioors" to notice is a little better.

What's more concerning is Sony's claims going forward.
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Not really, I'm more worried about them closing studios than trying to cover up some kind of resolution on a bad mp portion of a game.

Just curious though, was this a change after the update or what? We know they had that update recently, is there any chance they dropped the resolution for that update? I really don't care about the MP in this game but purely just wondering if that was said in the article at all or in the previous update.
 
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Jackie_Fhan said:
That isn't true. A lot of people thought it looked ho hum, not sure why you guys are trying to turn this into all or nothing though. A lot of people could and did state the differences all over the net... no reason to twist to suit arguments here....

I only played around on two maps though just to see how it looked and felt, I never went back to it after that honestly. First reason was, this looks quite bad.... if you really think no one could notice it or didn't then oh well I guess. I didn't know it was from the resolution I admit, but seeing how it did look a lot worse compartively... only makes me hope for better IQ, less effects and decent resolutions in some games.

If anything, this makes resolution gate more important because it obviously looks a lot worse than single player.
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Really? Hm, for some reason I never thought it looked bad actually although I kind of felt it wasn't as detailed as the SP campaign. Also never read much negatives about the MP? Or maybe I just didn't pay attention to KZ threads in general, haha.
 
Jackie_Fhan said:
That isn't true. A lot of people thought it looked ho hum, not sure why you guys are trying to turn this into all or nothing though. A lot of people could and did state the differences all over the net... no reason to twist to suit arguments here....

I only played around on two maps though just to see how it looked and felt, I never went back to it after that honestly. First reason was, this looks quite bad.... if you really think no one could notice it or didn't then oh well I guess. I didn't know it was from the resolution I admit, but seeing how it did look a lot worse compartively... only makes me hope for better IQ, less effects and decent resolutions in some games.

If anything, this makes resolution gate more important because it obviously looks a lot worse than single player.
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Hahahaha...

Find me ONE comment which suggested the MP's resolution was the issue.

The MP was widely regarded as looking worse, but not because of any perceived resolution difference... People assumed textures, geometric detail, shaders, etc. must have been the delta, and no one said resolution had anything to do with it.

So no, this absolutely just proves that resolution beyond 720p isn't very important, and with the right tricks, people won't notice or care.
 
Flynn said:
Hahahaha...

Find me ONE comment which suggested the MP's resolution was the issue.

The MP was widely regarded as looking worse, but not because of any perceived resolution difference... People assumed textures, geometric detail, shaders, etc. must have been the delta, and no one said resolution had anything to do with it.

So no, this absolutely just proves that resolution beyond 720p isn't very important, and with the right tricks, people won't notice or care.
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Well, they did notice the difference. The problem lies in the statement made by Sony that KZ's SP and MP were both 1080p native so logically, they would surmise that looking not as good to the other attributes of the game instead of the resolution since they thought it was confirmed to be 1080p.
 
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DriedMangoes said:
Well, they did notice the difference. The problem lies in the statement made by Sony that KZ's SP and MP were both 1080p native so logically, they would surmise that looking not as good to the other attributes of the game instead of the resolution since they thought it was confirmed to be 1080p.
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MP *always* looks worse than SP. There's NEVER been a game where that wasn't true... So that's beside the point... And the resolution *ISN'T* what makes the MP look worse. In fact, no one even noticed the resolution was LITERALLY HALF what they thought it was.

Clearly, resolution arguments are overblown, and it just doesn't matter, beyond a certain point.
 
Flynn said:
Hahahaha...

Find me ONE comment which suggested the MP's resolution was the issue.

The MP was widely regarded as looking worse, but not because of any perceived resolution difference... People assumed textures, geometric detail, shaders, etc. must have been the delta, and no one said resolution had anything to do with it.

So no, this absolutely just proves that resolution beyond 720p isn't very important, and with the right tricks, people won't notice or care.
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...... sigh

It really is too easy to see where you work. Resolution is obviously important... might as well just stay at 480p, why would we just want to stay at 720? just because one box is better suited to stay at that resolution because of a power/memory issue?

One day 1080p will be bad too, but we have to take the best for what it is at a current standard atleast. I guess Super Nintendo and Genesis should have just kept the coleco visions resolution as well.

Resolution won't matter when your eyes can't distinguish from what we see in the world and on the screen, other wise it is obviously going to matter in some form.

For some people (bad eyes) yeah, it doesn't matter I guess.

Your idea is strange, PEOPLE saw it looks worse but because they didn't know it was the resolution its ok! Now we can accept what we think looks bad because we didn't know it was the resolution doing it on one game. MS PR at it's best.

There is a word flynn "absolute" do you know what it means. There was a absolute truth to the resolution at the end of the day. If the absolute resolution makes the game looks worth, that is just absolute truth. We don't twist it to fit arguments of other games. Games will absolutely look worse at 720P in many cases (not always).

It doesn't matter what people thought or assumed. It is or isn't. That's all. It is a lower resolution and it does look worse. That's all that matters here.
 
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Flynn said:
MP *always* looks worse than SP. There's NEVER been a game where that wasn't true... So that's beside the point... And the resolution *ISN'T* what makes the MP look worse. In fact, no one even noticed the resolution was LITERALLY HALF what they thought it was.

Clearly, resolution arguments are overblown, and it just doesn't matter, beyond a certain point.
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The only thing that's clear here is that everyone has their own subjective opinion on whether resolution makes a difference or not. You either care or you don't. People that don't care will say that resolutions are overrated and the people that do care will say it matters. Simple. There's no right answer either.
 
Jackie_Fhan said:
...... sigh

It really is too easy to see where you work. Resolution is obviously important... might as well just stay at 480p, why would we just want to stay at 720? just because one box is better suited to stay at that resolution because of a power/memory issue?

One day 1080p will be bad too, but we have to take the best for what it is at a current standard atleast. I guess Super Nintendo and Genesis should have just kept the coleco visions resolution as well.
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Ah, the old "let's go to unrealistic extremes to try to prove a point" position. Totally fallacious.

Diminishing returns are real, and (as mentioned), beyond a certain point, resolution matters less.

Frame rate is the same. Anything more than 60fps is a waste. Bo need for it... And unless you have perfect eye site, a huge HDTV, and you're super close to it - resolutions beyond 720 won't make much of a difference... And as this game proves - the most audible fanboy-naysayers are pathetically blinded by their own bias... So much so, that they can't notice when they're looking at HALF the resolution of true native 1080p.

It's hilarious. It's genuinely funny.
 
Resolution matters to a degree.

I mean I have to play the last of us and GTA5 about 8 feet from the TV. But when I do, they look awesome.

I hope that there are more 900P X1 games than 720P though when all is said and done.
 
Dno69 said:
Resolution matters to a degree.

I mean I have to play the last of us and GTA5 about 8 feet from the TV. But when I do, they look awesome.

I hope that there are more 900P X1 games than 720P though when all is said and done.
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HIgher assets is important too, but there is always going to be a barrier.
 
DriedMangoes said:
The only thing that's clear here is that everyone has their own subjective opinion on whether resolution makes a difference or not. You either care or you don't. People that don't care will say that resolutions are overrated and the people that do care will say it matters. Simple. There's no right answer either.
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That's false.

It's also clear that people haven't known (or cared) that Killzone was running at HALF native 1080p (full HD spec)... Yet they hypocritically make it out to be such a big deal when X1 games aren't 1080p (full HD spec).

What it proves is that the mind is a powerful illusionist. Sony lied (as usual), and their minions believed (as usual)... And no one could tell it was running at half the resolution Sony led its fans to believe...

So no, factually, running at HALF of the full 1080p resolution didn't matter in this case. Not at all.
 
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DriedMangoes said:
The only thing that's clear here is that everyone has their own subjective opinion on whether resolution makes a difference or not. You either care or you don't. People that don't care will say that resolutions are overrated and the people that do care will say it matters. Simple. There's no right answer either.
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I just find it funny the number of people that don't start caring about it until they read it somewhere and then it magically becomes hugely noticeable.
 
I have to agree with Flynn on that. A lot of Sony fans fell for the deception and bought it hook line and sinker.

Game still looks great. Hopefully resolution gate dies out.
 
When I look at something like Infamous, I couldn't care less how they achieve it. I'm sure there will be X1 games that are the same way.
 
Flynn said:
That's false.

It's also clear that people haven't known (or cared) that Killzone was running at HALF native 1080p (full HD spec)... Yet they hypocritically make it out to be such a big deal when X1 games aren't 1080p (full HD spec).

What it proves is that the mind is a powerful illusionist. Sony lied (as usual), and their minions believed (as usual)... And no one could tell it was running at half the resolution Sony led its fans to believe...

So no, factually, running at HALF of the full 1080p resolution didn't matter in this case. Not at all.
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It's only a big deal to people because we found out the PS4 was 1080p and the Xbox One games weren't (earlier during launch). Actually, since the specs came out, many had already thought that the PS4 would have the better performing multiplatform titles so in essence, the comparisons just prove that it's true albeit with inconsistent results. Some were more extreme 1080p vs 720p and others not so much 1080p vs 900p.
 
I do find this method of upscaling (though it really can't be called that) to be intriguing as it is not using interpolation but rather interlacing, or some hybrid of both. Seems like it would be a method better suited for a slower paced game, but all in all quite affective.
 
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DriedMangoes said:
It's only a big deal to people because we found out the PS4 was 1080p and the Xbox One games weren't (earlier during launch). Actually, since the specs came out, many had already thought that the PS4 would have the better performing multiplatform titles so in essence, the comparisons just prove that it's true albeit with inconsistent results. Some were more extreme 1080p vs 720p and others not so much 1080p vs 900p.
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Exactly. The difference only matters when you're counting pixels. When you're playing the game, the experience is no different, and in many cases people wouldn't even have cared or noticed, had it not been called out.

What this proves - beyond doubt - is that if people didn't look at the numbers, they wouldn't care, and likely wouldn't even notice.

It's seriously hysterical to me. People act like it matters, but then when faced with HALF the resolution, don't even notice or care. It's so silly. It's so ridiculous. Makes many Sony zealots look quite foolish.
 
Flynn said:
Exactly. The difference only matters when you're counting pixels. When you're playing the game, the experience is no different, and in many cases people wouldn't even have cared or noticed, had it not been called out.

What this proves - beyond doubt - is that if people didn't look at the numbers, they wouldn't care, and likely wouldn't even notice.

It's seriously hysterical to me. People act like it matters, but then when faced with HALF the resolution, don't even notice or care. It's so silly. It's so ridiculous. Makes many Sony zealots look quite foolish.
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Well, if you've only played one version of the game, of course it's not going to matter since that will be the only experience you've had. It will only matter when you have seen both and own both consoles then the resolution and performance differences will matter. People are always going to want the best no matter how small or big the difference is.

I just find it funny how you try to downplay the differences. So from what you're saying, we should never output any games to 1080p. Let's all stay at 720p for the next few generations, heck lets just stay at 720p forever and focus on improving game engines, physics, textures etc. instead since we won't notice the difference anyways.
 
I played the MP already. The graphics were a bit overhyped, at least for the MP part. It was an okay experience for me. Battlefield has spoiled my tastes rotten.
 
DriedMangoes said:
Well, if you've only played one version of the game, of course it's not going to matter since that will be the only experience you've had. It will only matter when you have seen both and own both consoles then the resolution and performance differences will matter. People are always going to want the best no matter how small or big the difference is.

I just find it funny how you try to downplay the differences. So from what you're saying, we should never output any games to 1080p. Let's all stay at 720p for the next few generations, heck lets just stay at 720p forever and focus on improving game engines, physics, textures etc. instead since we won't notice the difference anyways.
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I'm not downplaying anything. The fact is, hundreds of thousands of people played Killzone MP, and not one of them posted anything on the internet about sub-1080p resolution. I didn't see a single post... And why? Because they couldn't tell the difference, nor did they care.

I don't need to downplay it. The public perception proved my point for me... And comically/ironically by those spreading the most fud about pixel counting to begin with. It's glorious.

As for staying at 720p, honestly, in the vast majority of living rooms, greater than 720p really doesn't matter. Most people aren't close enough, don't have big enough tv's, and or don't have perfect eye-sight... So they literally can't tell the difference. Sure, 1080p is better, but 720p is just fine, and 900p is virtually indistinguishable from 1080p in the vast, vast, vast majority of living rooms.
 
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oh great. 1080p vs 720p doesnt matter but the small differences from 360 to ps3 did.
 
This is so stupid lol. How can a cleaner image not matter? what's the point of 1080p blurays then? 720p movies just as good right? If I have to choose between 720p and 1080p i'm always going to choose the higher res. IT LOOKS BETTER.
 
Hissatsu said:
This is so stupid lol. How can a cleaner image not matter? what's the point of 1080p blurays then? 720p movies just as good right? If I have to choose between 720p and 1080p i'm always going to choose the higher res. IT LOOKS BETTER.
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dont you know, everybody is blind or has 30 inch televisions.
 
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Hissatsu said:
This is so stupid lol. How can a cleaner image not matter? what's the point of 1080p blurays then? 720p movies just as good right? If I have to choose between 720p and 1080p i'm always going to choose the higher res. IT LOOKS BETTER.
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Of course it does - no one's arguing otherwise - but Killzone proved even the most staunch pixel counters couldn't even tell the difference between 1920x1080 and HALF that resolution. It's so sad, and yet hilarious at the same time.
 
Flynn said:
Of course it does - no one's arguing otherwise - but Killzone proved even the most staunch pixel counters couldn't even tell the difference between 1920x1080 and HALF that resolution. It's so sad, and yet hilarious at the same time.
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Maybe that's because of the different method they used? definitely seems 100% better than the upscaler in the xb1.
 
immma gonna say its because nobody played it, when i played it at peak times there were maybe like 2000 people playing.
 
But seriously, this does prove that pixel counters' problem is in their heads, not in reality... And that with some better rendering tricks, 1080p proper isn't needed, nor matters... And since that point is so plainly proven by this, I can safely bow out of this conversation. Nothing more to debate here.
 
Hissatsu said:
This is so stupid lol. How can a cleaner image not matter? what's the point of 1080p blurays then? 720p movies just as good right? If I have to choose between 720p and 1080p i'm always going to choose the higher res. IT LOOKS BETTER.
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i hate these comments

the difference is, with games on these consoles 1080p comes at a cost. if these devs are being pressured to make it 1080p that means the gameplay/content will suffer, is that what you want

sure if you have exact same game running on 1080p and 900p/720p(with same FPS), ofcourse 1080p is better. i think devs should be aiming for 900p, i think thats a good compromise
 
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