Next-Iteration Gaming: Scorpio, Neo, and NX

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Frozpot

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I think I heard it estimated at 2.25 times more powerful. That's based on the TFs, which is a crude way of estimating power.

What I wonder is how that translates. The PS4 has a 40% advantage, right? Something like 1.3 TF for X1 and 1.8 TF for PS4?

When you get into higher numbers like 4 v 6, that would be a 2TF advantage vs a .5 TF advantage. That is a LOT more of a difference in TF. Hell, that's more than a whole PS4 difference. Scorpio also rumored to be going with 12 GB of ram and 100 more GB/s (320?) in bandwidth to the Neo's rumored 8 and 218 GB/s respectively. We also don't know anything about the Scorpio CPU, but we can assume another disparity based on Rumors of PS Neo sticking with the same (overclocked)CPU as the PS4

Of course, it's not that simple, and you have to have studios who can get the most out of that. There is no denying Sony has some incredible stuff in the pipeline based on their E3 conference that look stupendous. If their games look that good, it may not matter much, and PS is a near invincible brand.
 
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What I wonder is how that translates. The PS4 has a 40% advantage, right? Something like 1.3 TF for X1 and 1.8 TF for PS4?

When you get into higher numbers like 4 v 6, that would be a 2TF advantage vs a .5 TF advantage. That is a LOT more of a difference in TF. Hell, that's more than a whole PS4 difference. Scorpio also rumored to be going with 12 GB of ram and 100 more GB/s (320?) in bandwidth to the Neo's rumored 8 and 218 GB/s respectively. We also don't know anything about the Scorpio CPU, but we can assume another disparity based on Rumors of PS Neo sticking with the same (overclocked)CPU as the PS4

Of course, it's not that simple, and you have to have studios who can get the most out of that. There is no denying Sony has some incredible stuff in the pipeline based on their E3 conference that look stupendous. If their games look that good, it may not matter much, and PS is a near invincible brand.


Well a .5 TF difference between neo and Scorpio would yield an advantage, several frames perhaps, but no, it's 4x that amount. So I'm thinking it could be exopentially more. Like neo might run a high fidelity game at max settings/effects with an unlocked framerate 1080p whereas Xbox might do 1440p with max everything and a locked framerate.
 
So I am hearing the 4.2 tf of the rumored Neo specs are just for the GPU and the Scorpio's 6TF is taking everything into consideration ie cpu speed,ram speed,GPU speed etc.... that alone without Sony upping the Neo spec could mean both are almost identical in power...
 
So I am hearing the 4.2 tf of the rumored Neo specs are just for the GPU and the Scorpio's 6TF is taking everything into consideration ie cpu speed,ram speed,GPU speed etc.... that alone without Sony upping the Neo spec could mean both are almost identical in power...

I'm hearing that in the announce video for the Scorpio, there was a discrete mention of 6 teraflops of GPU power.

I'm also hearing that I don't really care. :)

But there's discussion of what the Neo (as it has been rumored to be configured) could do to try to bridge the gap with the Scorpio (as it has been rumored to be configured) in the DF analysis of the Scorpio reveal: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2016-xbox-one-project-scorpio-spec-analysis

The relevant part (from the end) :

Where does this leave PlayStation 4K Neo?
It's a remarkable turnabout. A good portion of PlayStation 4's success has been down to its spec advantage over Xbox One, combined with a focus on the hardcore player. Sony's technological advantage will be gone with the next wave of hardware - we already know that it cannot support true 4K resolution on cutting-edge games, because we've seen the internal documents that outline Sony's upscaling strategies for 4K display support (more on that soon). It's also unfeasible for Sony to produce a radically revised Neo - the silicon has been designed, developer kits have gone out. Matching Scorpio would require scrapping Neo's existing processor completely.

Just about the only option available to Sony is the route Microsoft chose for Xbox One in the face of PS4's higher specification - overclocking the processor. It could inch the Neo a little closer to the target Scorpio spec, but hitting 6TF there is off the table: Sony would need a 40 CU Polaris 10 clocked at 1.2GHz to hit the same level. And that wouldn't address the 100GB/s bandwidth deficit or the 4GB memory gap we suspect will separate Neo and Scorpio.

But there is an elephant in the room here: price. Microsoft's brief to AMD in producing this behemoth of a semi-custom design looks pretty obvious - to create the most powerful console possible. The GPU is more powerful and it's going to be larger, which means it's going to be more expensive to produce. Meanwhile, assuming we're right about the 4GB of additional memory, that's not going to be cheap either - when we attended AMD's Munich launch event for Fury X and the Radeon 300 series, we were told that adding an additional 4GB of GDDR5 to the R9 390/390X cost around them around $30 per unit. In short, we would not be surprised to see Scorpio cost significantly more than Neo - maybe even $100 more.

But there's certainly going to be pressure on Sony here - particularly as its next console is targeted at the hardcore player, who wants the very best. If Neo launches this year, it'll have a healthy headstart over Scorpio. However, if we're looking at a March 2017 launch, many may consider until Scorpio appears - especially as the new hardware stands to deliver a tangibly more impressive technological upgrade over the established PlayStation 4.
 
I'm hearing that in the announce video for the Scorpio, there was a discrete mention of 6 teraflops of GPU power.

I'm also hearing that I don't really care. :)

But there's discussion of what the Neo (as it has been rumored to be configured) could do to try to bridge the gap with the Scorpio (as it has been rumored to be configured) in the DF analysis of the Scorpio reveal: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2016-xbox-one-project-scorpio-spec-analysis

The relevant part (from the end) :
You was supposed to ask me where I heard this! You didn't bite :(
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=206977343&postcount=40
No I don't take what he said seriously I wanted to show the spin.

On a serious note.... Sony can and probably will improve the spec.
 
You was supposed to ask me where I heard this! You didn't bite :(
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=206977343&postcount=40
No I don't take what he said seriously I wanted to show the spin.

On a serious note.... Sony can and probably will improve the spec.

I know. I was actually trying to be useful and helpful, which is odd considering I'm so rarely in the PS side of the forums.

On the serious note again, I do think the thought that Sony's going to just wave a wand and upgrade their specs is highly optimistic, at best. As the DF article said, they've got it designed. They've got dev kits out. They're requiring games releasing in October to support Neo mode. They're not pushing this off so they can do an entirely new console redesign at this point, no way in hell.

But yeah, the spin will keep on spinning. Power will suddenly matter again, except for those who said it did matter before. No matter how many flops Sony and MS cram into their machines, they'll never be able to match the flops of the fanboys on what matters most this micro-generation. :)
 
They might be able to improve the specs somewhat, but nothing significant at this point. The dev kits are already out to most developers. I have 2 contacts that have the official documentation of the specs in the Neo/dev kits sitting on their desks right now.

Don't ask, I can't give anymore info but if you search hard enough you can find it.
 
Well a .5 TF difference between neo and Scorpio would yield an advantage, several frames perhaps, but no, it's 4x that amount. So I'm thinking it could be exopentially more. Like neo might run a high fidelity game at max settings/effects with an unlocked framerate 1080p whereas Xbox might do 1440p with max everything and a locked framerate.

The relative difference between the two is the same, so expect similar performance deltas. You don't magically gain a bigger lead by having more TF but the same relative difference. Also I'd hesitate to use the world expotential when talking about linear increases.
 
Aren't the chips sony will be using for Neo coming out in June for PC at higher clocks? wouldn't they just need to work on a better cooling solution vs having to really go with new specs? I'm not a tech head so I apologize if that sounds silly.
 
Aren't the chips sony will be using for Neo coming out in June for PC at higher clocks? wouldn't they just need to work on a better cooling solution vs having to really go with new specs? I'm not a tech head so I apologize if that sounds silly.

If they are using under clocked chips they could overclock them and just suffer the yield loss and better cooling solution yeah.
 
The relative difference between the two is the same, so expect similar performance deltas. You don't magically gain a bigger lead by having more TF but the same relative difference. Also I'd hesitate to use the world expotential when talking about linear increases.

We'll see. I'd like to see a 4tf pc versus a 6tf for a limited comparison. Im thinking itll be more than what we see between ps4/xb1. If the cpu is in fact not jaguar and a more capable one, that opens up even another can of worms, relieving the biggest weakness these consoles have. So, at that point you have not only more power, no bottleneck either, which could lead to an exponential increase.

Oh, and btw, when attempting to correct someone, try proofreading your own posts first.
 
Somebody told me that aony is goong to redo the specs because the new xbox is more powerfull yhen neo
Anybody here this

I doubt it. Probably just rumor mill stuff.

Assuming September release those specs have to be done at this point. They will be less powerful, but they'll be out presumably an entire calendar year early. They've got a huge install base to work with.

If they want to match specs, they'll need to push back to release with MS. I doubt they do that. Scorpio is going to be a bit like the OG Xbox. Really great and powerful, but facing a large install base (of course this time they still have a lot of X1 users).
 
We'll see. I'd like to see a 4tf pc versus a 6tf for a limited comparison. Im thinking itll be more than what we see between ps4/xb1. If the cpu is in fact not jaguar and a more capable one, that opens up even another can of worms, relieving the biggest weakness these consoles have. So, at that point you have not only more power, no bottleneck either, which could lead to an exponential increase.

Oh, and btw, when attempting to correct someone, try proofreading your own posts first.

Dont you mean a 4.8TF pc vs a 6TF pc?. I was also writing the post on my phone so I didn't proof read it much, but it still doesn't take away from the point.

I don't think there will be a exponential increase in any way really, but it will be a nice linear increase. It will be interesting to see how well Neo and friends handle 4k without a proportional bump in ram bandwidth.
 
Dont you mean a 4.8TF pc vs a 6TF pc?. I was also writing the post on my phone so I didn't proof read it much, but it still doesn't take away from the point.

I don't think there will be a exponential increase in any way really, but it will be a nice linear increase. It will be interesting to see how well Neo and friends handle 4k without a proportional bump in ram bandwidth.

4.8 confirmed? Even with that if that cpu is above the jaguar it will be a nice jump. Any dev you listen to its all about the crap jaguar.
 
I bet they can get Scorpio to 7+ TF. They have a lot more time to bake the Scorpio.

Very true, I bet MS will just wait until the fall and see what Sony has then just bump everything up. They have way more time to increase their performance. Another thing is RAM, MS is already at a 4gb advantage.
 
It'll be really interesting to see what Sony does with the Neo now that we know the Scorpio specs. I think it'll be a little less powerful just like the PS2 and Xbox days if it's releasing this Fall 2016. The price factor will also come into play.
 
Sure and suckers will pay the $599+ price
I know I will pay a premium price for a premium console.

It'll be really interesting to see what Sony does with the Neo now that we know the Scorpio specs. I think it'll be a little less powerful just like the PS2 and Xbox days if it's releasing this Fall 2016. The price factor will also come into play.
According to Digital Foundry, the difference is very large.
 
Oh so DF has both consoles?

They apparently know enough:
It's also unfeasible for Sony to produce a radically revised Neo - the silicon has been designed, developer kits have gone out. Matching Scorpio would require scrapping Neo's existing processor completely.
 
Neo is coming out this fall. Unless that changes the hardware has to be just about set. The only option would be to pull back and delay and wait for Scorpio. I don't think that happens. They'll be less powered but they will be out probably 1 whole year early, with that huge PS4 base to build on.
 
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I bet they can get Scorpio to 7+ TF. They have a lot more time to bake the Scorpio.

According to the original leaker, their target for overall performance is 10. He doesn't yet know if they'll reach that though.

Neo is coming out this fall. Unless that changes the hardware has to be just about set. The only option would be to pull back and delay and wait for Scorpio. I don't think that happens. They'll be less powered but they will be out probably 1 whole year early, with that huge PS4 base to build on.

Neo specs are set, dev kits are already at developers.

Based off of E3, the Neo launch window lineup could be great. The VR stuff looks better than I expected but we'll see if it pans out. Neo+VR+acessories+games is a heavy investment.

Anyone want to take a stab at Scorpio launch games? Halo I'd think, and or FC bells/whistles on Halo 5, GOW4, etc. Maybe Crackdown but hopefully we'll see it before then.

It's not just the systems but the direction. Sony seems to be trying to get console gamers away from the PC, and MS is trying to merge. I think merging is a better direction, as gamers and developers will both benefit...but I could be wrong. Time will tell. This is uncharted territory as far as consoles go.
 
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