"Saying 'Goodbye' to Video Games"

This_Hard_Land said:
I've finally been able to explain why gaming isn't considered a hobby by most people...

The term hobby, is exclusively used in a positive/beneficial manner. In western culture, when we hear the phrase "You need a hobby" it always means "You're not spending your time well, you need a more constructive focus."

Whether we like it or not, our culture has not embraced gaming as a beneficial activity.

The definitions posted above fail to include context, and how could they?

This is up at NeoGaf right now. It looks like the Chinese government doesn't view gaming as a positive focus for its citizens either.

http://www.computerworld.com/articl...-score-system-is-a-warning-for-americans.html
Click to expand...

I'm glad you've been able to justify your own position to yourself. I assume you realize you haven't convinced anyone else.

People consider all kinds of non-beneficial things hobbies. How is collecting figurines beneficial? How is playing with trains beneficial? How is assembling model airplanes beneficial?

And whether or not "people" consider gaming beneficial, there is a lot of research out there showing that it is.
 
This_Hard_Land said:
I've finally been able to explain why gaming isn't considered a hobby by most people...

l
Click to expand...

You are the ONLY one I see not able to call it a hobby.

Google Search...

"Video Gaming is a hobby" - 6,080 results
"Video Gaming is not a hobby" - 4 results

The search engine has spoken. You lose.
 
Andy said:
I'm glad you've been able to justify your own position to yourself. I assume you realize you haven't convinced anyone else.

People consider all kinds of non-beneficial things hobbies. How is collecting figurines beneficial? How is playing with trains beneficial? How is assembling model airplanes beneficial?

And whether or not "people" consider gaming beneficial, there is a lot of research out there showing that it is.
Click to expand...

I haven't convinced anyone here that gaming isn't a hobby. But once again, I never was, considering where we are.

I don't think non gamers are nearly as convinced.

You do bring up an excellent point about collecting figurines, trains, and model airplanes though. I think perhaps there are two reasons?

1) There is a belief that individuals who participate in those hobbies gain a deeper knowledge of their real world counter parts? I don't know, this doesn't totally stack up in my head because I think there are Warhammer 40k and Lord of the Rings figurines that people collect and that wouldn't quite work.

2) The sense of accomplishment participants deride from those hobbies are more intrinsic/natural? With games, accomplishment is thrown at you by designers every 2.7 seconds. They're constantly thinking about how to feed players that feeling. The hobbies you're talking about has to have users deride it by themselves.

I don't know. Neither of these explanations feel perfect to me.

Your last comment though is total BS though(no offense).

The gaming industry is MASSIVE. According to Polygon, in 2014, the game industry brought in 83.6 billion dollars in revenue. According to BrewersAssociation.org, the beer industry in America brought in 101.5 billion in 2014.

How many studies have we seen the past few years suggesting that alcohol is beneficial to us? Yet, alcohol is unarguably the most destructive drug on planet earth.

When industries get this big, studies pop out implying great things about their product. I'm sure we could all find studies touting the benefits of cigarettes, sugar etc...

The Chinese, who I would argue are a more rational people than those of us in the west due to their atheistic nature, seem to be cognicent of the destructive potential the games industry has.

If hobbies lean constructive (which I'm surprised no one can even agree with me on this), gaming seems to be leaning the opposite way.
 
This_Hard_Land said:
I haven't convinced anyone here that gaming isn't a hobby. But once again, I never was, considering where we are.

I don't think non gamers are nearly as convinced.

You do bring up an excellent point about collecting figurines, trains, and model airplanes though. I think perhaps there are two reasons?

1) There is a belief that individuals who participate in those hobbies gain a deeper knowledge of their real world counter parts? I don't know, this doesn't totally stack up in my head because I think there are Warhammer 40k and Lord of the Rings figurines that people collect and that wouldn't quite work.

2) The sense of accomplishment participants deride from those hobbies are more intrinsic/natural? With games, accomplishment is thrown at you by designers every 2.7 seconds. They're constantly thinking about how to feed players that feeling. The hobbies you're talking about has to have users deride it by themselves.

I don't know. Neither of these explanations feel perfect to me.

Your last comment though is total BS though(no offense).

The gaming industry is MASSIVE. According to Polygon, in 2014, the game industry brought in 83.6 billion dollars in revenue. According to BrewersAssociation.org, the beer industry in America brought in 101.5 billion in 2014.

How many studies have we seen the past few years suggesting that alcohol is beneficial to us? Yet, alcohol is unarguably the most destructive drug on planet earth.

When industries get this big, studies pop out implying great things about their product. I'm sure we could all find studies touting the benefits of cigarettes, sugar etc...

The Chinese, who I would argue are a more rational people than those of us in the west due to their atheistic nature, seem to be cognicent of the destructive potential the games industry has.

If hobbies lean constructive (which I'm surprised no one can even agree with me on this), gaming seems to be leaning the opposite way.
Click to expand...

Plenty of research shows that gaming has benefits. I'm not saying there aren't equal or greater risks, just that the idea that gaming has no benefits is misinformed.

Anyhow, "hobby" doesn't have anything to do with whether it's constructive or beneficial or whatever. Of course, society prefers and approves of hobbies that are constructive or beneficial -- just as society prefers and approves of any activities that are constructive/beneficial, as opposed to destructive or not beneficial. But that's just a value judgment, and the value judgment isn't inherent in the definition of a hobby itself, as you're saying. You're conflating a hobby itself with a value judgment about the hobby.

As I pointed out, there are many hobbies that don't have much socially redeeming value whatsoever. You acknowledged that this was a good point, and so we can rest there, because if you admit that point, then your premise collapses -- a hobby doesn't require that it be a good/useful/beneficial hobby. Some are good/beneficial, some are pointless, some are quite sick (e.g., collecting body parts).
 
  • Like
Reactions: Frozpot
I find gaming beneficial. I know a lot of people do too. It can be relaxing, exciting, help blow off stress, etc.
 
I've learned a lot about cars in Forza, history in games like Valiant Hearts/Brothers in Arms, and found great new music from many games soundtracks. I've also used them a lot to get in shape. They say it helps older people to "engage" their brains in things like games, puzzles, etc to deter Alzheimers and keep their motor functions active.

Video gaming has been a great HOBBY for me and I cringe at anyone who would try to argue otherwise.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Frozpot and Partyman
Andy said:
You acknowledged that this was a good point, and so we can rest there, because if you admit that point, then your premise collapses -- a hobby doesn't require that it be a good/useful/beneficial hobby.
Click to expand...

Have we also admitted that Frozpots definitions are not sufficient?

I still believe society views the term hobby as a positive endeavor. I also believe society, at least some large parts of it, do not view gaming as a positive activity. That's where the disconnect lies for me.

Z A C K said:
I find excessive drinking beneficial. I know a lot of people do too. It can be relaxing, exciting, help blow off stress, etc.
Click to expand...

Oh and has anyone had a chance to bring this topic up with non gamer compatriots? I'd like to hear what people who don't belong to gaming message boards think.
 
Last edited:
This_Hard_Land said:
Have we also admitted that Frozpots definitions are not sufficient?
Click to expand...

The dictionary definition, you mean? No, I don't think anyone is taking exception to that, except you.

I still believe society views the term hobby as a positive endeavor. I also believe society, at least some large parts of it, do not view gaming as a positive activity. That's where the disconnect lies for me.
Click to expand...

So your objection is based on what "society" thinks and how "society" views gaming? This surprises me. You seem to take pride in how "above" normal society you are, how independent from the masses, how elite you are in opinion and taste. But yet, here you are, so concerned about what society thinks.

But back to the definition... sure, it's preferable if hobbies are positive, but they aren't always positive. If we can find examples of hobbies that are not positive (as we have), then that must mean that positivity isn't a part of what makes a hobby a hobby.

Here's another example: "work" is something society generally views as positive/beneficial. But positivity or benefit isn't inherent in the definition of work. There are many examples of work that is not positive or beneficial, and we still call those activities work.

By the way, you still haven't suggested an alternative. If gaming isn't a "hobby," what would you call it?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Frozpot
Andy said:
The dictionary definition, you mean? No, I don't think anyone is taking exception to that, except you.
Click to expand...

Wait...

I challenge Frozpot's (dictionary) definition by saying "Well, what about masturbation, drugs, alcohol etc...?", to which you agreed, and I get "Well no definition is perfect."

You challenge my (must be beneficial) definition by saying "Well, what about figurine collecting?", to which I agreed, and my "premise collapses"?

Shirley, you can't be serious?

Andy said:
So your objection is based on what "society" thinks and how "society" views gaming? This surprises me. You seem to take pride in how "above" normal society you are, how independent from the masses, how elite you are in opinion and taste. But yet, here you are, so concerned about what society thinks.
Click to expand...

While it is true that I've benefited from having the ability to climb life's mountain of wisdom faster than the common man, I do not claim to have reached the peak of said mountain. I merely see a more expansive horizon due to my superior elevation.

With that being said, language is a tool. I have no interest in creating my own tools and then exerting energy to convince everyone else to use my new tools. I'd much rather use the tools that everyone is familiar and comfortable with. Doing that saves all of us time.

The fact that my tastes in art and entertainment have grown considerably since I was a preteen should have no relation to the topic being discussed. If people here feel threatened that their tastes have stagnated, that's no excuse to take it out on me.

Andy said:
But back to the definition... sure, it's preferable if hobbies are positive, but they aren't always positive. If we can find examples of hobbies that are not positive (as we have), then that must mean that positivity isn't a part of what makes a hobby a hobby.
Click to expand...

...and the HIV riddled heroin addict can't claim that the calamitous activity he frequents is a hobby either. That must mean that a hobby is something more than just "An activity pursued for pleasure, and not for a main occupation."

Andy said:
Here's another example: "work" is something society generally views as positive/beneficial. But positivity or benefit isn't inherent in the definition of work. There are many examples of work that is not positive or beneficial, and we still call those activities work.
Click to expand...

I call BS on this one. Work has a far, faaaar stronger correlation with an activity one does to bring in income. Society views income as a positive/beneficial concept. I have no issue, nor would anyone else, by saying that cooking and selling methamphetamines was Walter White's "work". Society obviously does not approve of his job title, but that's definitely work.

Andy said:
By the way, you still haven't suggested an alternative. If gaming isn't a "hobby," what would you call it?
Click to expand...

Gaming is an activity. An amusement. A diversion. Not a hobby.
 
This_Hard_Land said:
Wait...

I challenge Frozpot's (dictionary) definition by saying "Well, what about masturbation, drugs, alcohol etc...?", to which you agreed, and I get "Well no definition is perfect."
Click to expand...

Actually, the response was, "no dictionary definition is an exhaustive analysis of a subject; that would make a dictionary a 50-volume set."

You challenge my (must be beneficial) definition by saying "Well, what about figurine collecting?", to which I agreed, and my "premise collapses"?

Shirley, you can't be serious?
Click to expand...

Sure I am. It's quite simple logic, really. If we can find lots of examples of hobbies that are not beneficial, then "beneficial" must not be an essential ingredient in the definition of a hobby. How do you not see that?

[snip narcissism]

I'd much rather use the tools that everyone is familiar and comfortable with. Doing that saves all of us time.
Click to expand...

This is your idea of saving us time, is it?

[snip more narcissism]

...and the HIV riddled heroin addict can't claim that the calamitous activity he frequents is a hobby either.
Click to expand...

I don't know any heroin addicts who claim it as a hobby.

I call BS on this one. Work has a far, faaaar stronger correlation with an activity one does to bring in income. Society views income as a positive/beneficial concept. I have no issue, nor would anyone else, by saying that cooking and selling methamphetamines was Walter White's "work". Society obviously does not approve of his job title, but that's definitely work.
Click to expand...

Which was my point, which I guess you missed -- work that is frowned upon is still considered "work," just as hobbies that are frowned upon are still considered hobbies.

Gaming is an activity. An amusement. A diversion. Not a hobby.
Click to expand...

Meh.
 
Z A C K said:
What is this thread about again?
Click to expand...

Well, up until THL started cringing at common usage, it was about a guy who was saying "goodbye" to videogames after being obsessed with them for many years. Then it turned into a circular argument about the definition of a "hobby." Kind of a pointless diversion.
 
If anything it has given me a great idea for THL's new avatar should I beat him in the Metacritic contest. :grin:
 
Arguing on the internet can actually be useful in developing analytical skills and critical thinking.
I couldn't write an essay to save myself until I started visiting a forum with a resident argument troll (like Superdud) and I couldn't resist his bait sometimes.
After that I started getting all As for my essays.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Frozpot
Li Tan said:
Arguing on the internet can actually be useful in developing analytical skills and critical thinking.
I couldn't write an essay to save myself until I started visiting a forum with a resident argument troll (like Superdud) and I couldn't resist his bait sometimes.
After that I started getting all As for my essays.
Click to expand...

There's some truth in that. I've been deposed a few times, and I've dealt with some aggressive lawyers. Odd as it sounds, I believe that all the time I spent engaged in stupid arguments on TXB actually helped to train me for that.

Basically, giving testimony involves having an opposing attorney try to box you in or trap you into saying something he can twist and then screw you over with later. Arguing on forums is good training for how to avoid those traps -- how not to say too much, how to not go out on a limb or get carried away, how to not get hooked emotionally, and how to formulate a decent argument while anticipating some of the common objections/counterpoints. At one point, I got a little snarky or sarcastic with the lawyer, and I remember thinking, "This is kind of fun," and it reminded me of how it feels arguing on forums sometimes.

Anyhow, I realized that all those hours I spent engaged in stupid arguments on TXB served a purpose of sorts. I've always been a natural arguer, but being on forums for 15 years has honed my skills. I guess that's a good thing ... or at least a good rationalization for all the time I spend in stupid arguments on forums.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Entreri804 and Dno69
Absolutely. It improved my ability to focus on the point and filter out irrelevant points, how to support my point (quote wars), and basic structure.

Now, I observe people arguing sometimes and think "what a weak argument. It's going nowhere and you're not making any logical sense!"

Gaming, arguing on the internet and even passive activities like watching TV all have something to offer. But as with anything, productive or not, obsession and single-mindedness will cause it to eat into other parts of your life and affect you negatively.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back