The End of the World: A Political Thread. A New Hope coming soon!
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Ok, bad choice of word. My bad. No problem.
My point is, I expect backlash.
Ok, bad choice of word. My bad. No problem.
Well nobody likes the whole "my way is the right way" type superiority stuff but I don't think anyone is going to get too worked up over it.
Trump still can't be excused for his racist and xenophobic actions through either. This is America, we're a country made up of people from somewhere else.
Unlike other countries, "American" is not a race. Nobody runs one of those DNA ancestry tests and comes up with "America" (other than Native Americans).
The right wing nationalism in Europe is very different here. Anyone who is anti-immigrant in America is a massive hypocrite.
Did you feel that way? My whole point is not hating on another side, & listen. If it like projecting moral superiority, it is not my intention.
I don't want people to agree with me, I just want people to consider being more open-minded. While I have not posted as regularly as before, people who at least seen or have the memory of my past posts should know I am hardly the pushy type. I normally like to make some funny remarks here & there.
"Right wing" nationalism in Europe is not quite as being reported. There is a reason most of Europe, are moving right, & it has very little do with nationalism. But its another topic.
I get what you are getting. Everyone is an immigrant even if you are from Europe, Asia, it's just when your ancestors came to where you are.
But I think I much prefer to go back to post funny remarks in the game forums. I don't think coming to the game forum to discuss politics make sense, too serious, & only sour relationship, unless everyone on the same page that is.
Thanks for the conversation so far.
I've started to just consider Progressivism too be politics for grownups. That is why it is more prevalent in the media and Academia.
While 'grown ups' or supposedly mature people are sometimes to clever for their own good like the Clintons, they still seem more to me about fixing things and generally better Statesmen or Diplomats. We created this tool of Government so they explore ways to use it or provide services.
Conservatives are against government except for a big military and seem to embrace supremacy of the individual over the group. Their views sound appealing in principle, but are not really practical. They also sold out to crazy Evangelicals.
I try to be open minded. I have basically quit Libertarianism.
While 'grown ups' or supposedly mature people are sometimes to clever for their own good like the Clintons, they still seem more to me about fixing things and generally better Statesmen or Diplomats. We created this tool of Government so they explore ways to use it or provide services.
Conservatives are against government except for a big military and seem to embrace supremacy of the individual over the group. Their views sound appealing in principle, but are not really practical. They also sold out to crazy Evangelicals.
I try to be open minded. I have basically quit Libertarianism.
Yeah to be anti immigrant with no reason behind it is hypocritical, the thing is this country is already overpopulated and we still haven't figured out how to care for all of the poor people who live here already. I don't think there is anything wrong with wanting to cut down on how many we allow in until we get some other things sorted out first.
The reason we can't have compromise is Trump. Trump turned immigration into a wedge issue. Trump doesn't want to fix immigration. He's barely done anything other than turn a blind eye to ICE turning into the gestapo.
Immigration hasn't been a hot button issue in a long time. At least for 2 past presidential elections and probably further than that. It was barely discussed for Romney/Obama. Now and then maybe sanctuary cities would get brought up, but for the most part, we were working together to improve things. A border fence was being built under Obama, and the GOP was softening on the idea of amnesty. Everything sort of fell apart because of resources and eminent domain, but not really because of lack of cooperation between the two parties.
If you look back to the Republican primary, there were 8 candidates. Trump needed an issue to divide himself from the rest of Republicans. Most other candidates were looking to gain some latino vote so they backed off the topic mostly. Then Trump started screaming about a wall and calling people rapists and murderers.
Trump is the problem and has always been.
Trump is a problem for sure, I can't stand him and I'm embarrassed that he is the POTUS. He didn't create the immigration issue though he just took what the people on the far right had been saying and put it front and center. Most Republicans I know speak out of both sides of their mouth on this issue, they want to get rid of "illegals" yet every contractor or business owner I know that's republican has no problem hiring those same people because it saves them money.
The wall is clearly an intellectually lazy idea, even if mass illegal immigration was still a problem (which it isn't) a wall wouldn't do anything but cost us a ton of money. Unless you completely stop people from entering legally at anytime the wall would be meaningless. Most people don't sneak into the country by crossing hostile terrain, they come in through legal means and then just don't leave. He has an uneducated old man's view of how things work and it's sad that enough people agree with him that it helped get him elected. We can blame Russia all we want but he never should have won his party nomination to begin with let alone won the electoral college. I still can't believe a guy like Kasich didn't win, I don't agree with him on a lot of things but he seems like a pretty good guy with some integrity yet he only won 1 primary.
I feel like we keep trying to solve the problems of the future with the solutions of the past lol.
To your first point, no I really don't. I don't have many personal conversations with other liberals, but whether friends posting things online or reading other comments from liberals on posts, the left is more on point with the issues that help people. Healthcare for all, equal rights for minorities and LGBTQ, pro-choice/women's rights for abortion, etc. Now obviously it's not black and white for everyone on these issues, but these are some of the more general issues the left believe in. You look on the right (Trump supporters specifically) though and its very 'me' focused. Get rid of welfare and let everyone pull themselves up by the bootstraps, lock down the border so no one can get in, racist views of varying degrees, etc. Maybe you don't spend much time online, either social media or other forums, but again Trump supporters are absolutely trolls and just try to stick to anyone that doesn't agree with them. If the left "wins" at something they celebrate the positive that it gives, like gay marriage. If a Trumper "wins" something it's haha take that you stupid liberals. See where I'm coming at here? To me that is biggest difference between the two.
To your second point, I don't watch a lot of TV news and stick mostly to print. For TV it can be harder to tell what's news vs opinion where as in print it's separated. This goes for news from both sides so it's not just one side that does it, although Fox News is definitely an outlier that is more entertainment than actual news. While I don't read a lot of right wing news, sites like The Hill or National Review are considered slightly-leaning right. Once you go beyond slightly-leaning in either direction then you start running into issues. I'm not saying don't read that stuff, but you have to be smart about it.
I don't know where this chart comes from, but I have seen different versions of it with mostly the same placement of the organizations. I mostly read/watch NPR, The New York Times, Washington Post, The New Yorker, and The Atlantic. So while they skew liberal, they are still trustworthy, fact based reporting. Trump supporters on the other hand go for Fox News, InfoWars, Breitbart, etc and you can see where those are at. No worse than people that get all their news from comparable sites on the left, although I have personally not heard of except Huffington Post and Daily Kos.
http://www.allgeneralizationsarefal...edia-Bias-Chart_Version-3.1_Watermark-min.jpg
As for media, My advice is, read/watch the news, avoid the opinions. That will give you the most unbias stand to form your own opinions.
I am no longer posting here, but I will say there is some misleading information, which is I believe is perpetrated to avoid conversation making people believe other side are bad. I understand why many think what you think (I think), because I was in the same boat.
Until I am willing to listen. I can assure most people are not evil or racist like what some people want you to believe. It's just a way to stop conversion by preventing you to look further. If I am able to convince you my position is right & the other side is evil, why would you then bother to hear another side of the argument? & that's exactly what happened to me, it only changes as I get older & more open-minded.
If I tell you I have this position because I feel it is stronger, & wouldn't you be more interested to hear the other side to make a comparison.
My best advice is to talk to people who hold libertarian & conservative view.
As for the equal right, I know that all sides wanted equal rights, the difference is how to do it. Like for instance affirmative action. The left claim conservative are against it because racism, but fail to see it discriminate against whites & Asians. The intention is good no doubt, with the argument being Latino & Blacks more likely to be poor & less privilege etc. But then if that is the case, why not have affirmative action for the poor & not base on race? There are poor Asian & Whites, & well to do Latino & blacks also you know.
In any case, even when I was much more liberal ( I am central now) when I was younger, I have always been against affirmative action. Not because I am against helping poor or less privilege, but I believe that is not the right way to help. The way to help is imo improve the standard of the poor by providing more help (more tuition, help the family so kids can concentrate on study etc) so they can compete with others, & not lower the standard for some group & raise for others. There is nothing racist about it, even if you disagree.
As for pro life/abortion, I have listened to both sides, debate with people, & at the end of the day, there are good reasons for both side of the argument, but I kept hearing lies either of "They just want to control women!" How does that pass even the most basic logic considering almost half of women are pro-life.
http://news.gallup.com/poll/170249/split-abortion-pro-choice-pro-life.aspx
Also the same can be said of people who claim that people that support abortion is supporting the murder of kids. are false. Most wanted the choice for a women to have a baby & there has always been a debate when does life started (In Europe, most countries has a cutoff date when Abortion is forbidden). The summary is, the "evil intention" narrative is just BS.
The problem I see, there is misleading information on both sides, which stop the conversation. I think its perfectly fine to a support certain political positions, where one feels has the stronger argument, but that doesn't mean people who do not stand with you are evil. That's why I said, talk to people who have opposite views of you & listen.
Anyway, that should be my last post here. I think Gaming forum is not best place to discuss politics.
"I had little formal education. No real skills. I don’t work especially hard. Most of my ideas are either unoriginal or total crap. And yet, I walked right into a job for which I was ill-prepared, ill-suited and somebody else already had and I got it. If you ask me, that’s the American dream, right there. Anything can happen to anyone. It’s just random."
-Nellie Bertram (character on The Office)
Lol, Nellie was my fav Office character.
I think you should stick around though. It's good to have opposite view points from people that don't have to resort to just posting a meme or video and then bolt without discussing or backing up their claims.
Humans have always been migratory animals from the time we first set foot out of Africa. We have migrated in search of resources, for a better life or escape war and natural disasters. In modern times most migration has been to escape poverty or displacement due to war. We live in a globalised world and putting up walls is not going to stop human migration. The only sure way is to make a fairer world and get rid of inequality, poverty and conflict. The rate at which we consume resources is also unsustainable. Becoming insular and inward looking for short term gain at the expense of the planet and the human race at large will only lead to our doom.
That is because as long he is riding high the Republicans can benefit from him until he calls you out on Twitter.
ICE trying to get my brother friend and not knowing that guyICE is trying to profile was a Detective.
ICE profile makes NJ state troopers amateurs.
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