The Xbox Onesie

[TDbank24]

Gimme a fuking break, TD. Smh. Like you were going to buy SB. You're fuking losing it dude.

Yeah, i was. Cause you know, i buy exclusives and support the developers no matter what platform or who made them. PC excluded. Xbox fans seem to have some phobia towards Japanese games or something. Like they're lesser games. If everyone else supported the developers then Microsoft would see the value of these games and we wouldn't be having this discussion.

You DO realize that Scorpio will be the most powerful console on the market

We realize that, and we realize it will have the least amount of games so that's why everyone is tempering their expectations. Maybe Phil does have something up his sleeve. Who knows, but going by past E3 experience they won't have half as much as Sony.

 

[Dno69]

Didn't Microsoft cancel Scalebound because Platinum was funneling Microsoft's money into other projects?

Should they just be ok with that just to put out a game that probably wouldn't have sold well anyway?

 

[Mcmasters]

Yeah, i was. Cause you know, i buy exclusives and support the developers no matter what platform or who made them. PC excluded. Xbox fans seem to have some phobia towards Japanese games or something. Like they're lesser games. If everyone else supported the developers then Microsoft would see the value of these games and we wouldn't be having this discussion.



We realize that, and we realize it will have the least amount of games so that's why everyone is tempering their expectations. Maybe Phil does have something up his sleeve. Who knows, but going by past E3 experience they won't have half as much as Sony.

So ONE Japanese game gets canceled and suddenly MS and its fans are phobics of JP exclusives?.......Okay?

Just remember what I said. If you don't I'll remind you.

 

[yankeessuck]

Didn't Microsoft cancel Scalebound because Platinum was funneling Microsoft's money into other projects?

Should they just be ok with that just to put out a game that probably wouldn't have sold well anyway?

No. Someone here said it as a theory.

Pretty much everyone just believed what they want to believe. Microsoft seems to work as a publisher and Platinum is very efficient so they were probably just a bad fit together.

 

[TDbank24]

Didn't Microsoft cancel Scalebound because Platinum was funneling Microsoft's money into other projects?

Should they just be ok with that just to put out a game that probably wouldn't have sold well anyway?

Well that's their story and they're sticking to it if they did say it. Seems like a convenient thing to say happened when you piss off your fans by canceling a game. I could be wrong though, maybe Platinum is the devil they're made out to be and the game was a disaster. Looked okay at E3 in my opinion and i was looking forward to it since it was first shown.

 

[Sasquatch Montana]

Didn't Microsoft cancel Scalebound because Platinum was funneling Microsoft's money into other projects?

It was never openly stated why, but SigmaLongshot (guy I know from Gamefaqs, is an artist for Ubisoft Reflections) shared this about development, specifically related to Scalebound:

The way it works with an external backer or sponsor is that you're given milestones for alpha, beta, MVP and Master most of the time (though with my current project we have a separate budget for playable alpha).

The deal is, you have a pre-determined set of deliverables for each of the milestones, and at each deadline you present to the backer/publisher. If for any reason you fail (you didn't deliver what was promised, the world imploded, etc) you're given circumstantial leeway - within reason - to fulfil those objectives again, and outlining why those objectives weren't met in the first place (most often with a lot of MS Excel scouring for a new budget and timeframe to be implemented).

If you continue to underperform and miss your deadlines multiple times, you're subjected to a product viability review. That's essentially when you take your money spent, inability to produce what you promised, and what's left to produced - and the publisher/sponsor etc can then determine whether or not the product, the developers themselves, or the overall progress of the product are still effective for purpose.

Put it this way, if you had a Subway sandwich artist commissioned to make you a meatball sub, and said you'd spend £5 tops on it if it was made within five minutes (with a £3 spend on meatballs, £1 spend on bread, and £1 spend on cheese) and the guy spent 7 minutes only to reveal he'd just finished preparing the meatballs, and it'd probably be £9 overall for the sub by this point, you as a consumer have every right to contest it. It really just depends how much you want that sandwich, how hungry you are, and if by the time he even got to the bread you could be assured the sandwich wasn't going to cost you £15.

Contracting of any scale is absolutely the same deal. Sure, it sucks when it's something so cool and massive, but it's the same deal.

 

[TDbank24]

So ONE Japanese game gets canceled and suddenly MS and its fans are phobics of JP exclusives?.......Okay?

With the way some Xbox fans talk about Japanese games you can only guess. Lots of racists, phobics, or whatever out there that support Xbox. Like Crapgamer, who has called Sony rice eaters.

 

[Zcythe]

Say what you want, I don't understand why people concern themselves so much over cosmetics that have no affect on gameplay, they're willingness to buy it despite not knowing exactly what they are getting, and just how successful it is, but I for one enjoy not having to pay for new maps and such because someone else has bought $100+ in cosmetics. It's a bonus when it helps sustain the industry and games we play.

 

[Zcythe]

With the way some Xbox fans talk about Japanese games you can only guess. Lots of racists, phobics, or whatever out there that support Xbox. Like Crapgamer, who has called Sony rice eaters.

Why should there be any distinction at all? A great game is just that, a great game. Even better if I really want to play it. Coming from Japan, or anywhere else, means nothing to me as the gamer, nor does it add some kind of intrinsic value to the game.

 

[sharkboy1200]

It's hard to be a big hit. Unless it's a franchise or from a specific publisher/dev, people won't lash onto any particular SP game out of the drop of a hat.The alternative is making lower budget games that don't need to sell a million copies just to break even. At the end of the day, there's always going to be SP games, but rising costs will ensure certain games never see the light of day without taking a hit in production (visuals, quality, length, replayibility). At the end of the day, SP games will be around and in plentiful selection. Depending on where you game, you just have less to choose from.

 

[TDbank24]

Why should there be any distinction at all? A great game is just that, a great game. Even better if I really want to play it. Coming from Japan, or anywhere else, means nothing to me as the gamer, nor does it add some kind of intrinsic value to the game.

That's what i wonder. I guess maybe it's just a way to counter how PS fans call Microsoft's games dudebro shooters or something. A good game is a good game. I don't get why some Xbox fans act like Japanese games aren't a good thing to have. Like 3 Japanese games don't equal the importance of one western game because reasons.

 

[OneBadMutha]

With the way some Xbox fans talk about Japanese games you can only guess. Lots of racists, phobics, or whatever out there that support Xbox. Like Crapgamer, who has called Sony rice eaters.

There is a certain style with Japanese games. They just don't connect with a lot of Western gamers. Has nothing to do with phobics or racism. I'd argue that the cartoon anime characters in Japanese games don't look like they're of Japanese decent so not sure how that's being racist.

On the flip side, Japanese gamers are less accepting of Western art style than the other way around.

I can't connect with most Japanese games however Dark Souls 3 was my favorite single player game this gen. Comes down to the type of game and art style. People shouldn't get so pretentious about art and assume it must be something else.

 

[jimmyD]

For a good story I tend to look outside of videogames

 

[Kvally]

Wait, wha? What I miss? 35 million is pretty solid.

I made up the number like the guys above were making up the numbers.

 

[Kvally]

For a good story I tend to look outside of videogames

Cool story brah.

 

[jimmyD]

Cool story brah.

 

[Edge BC]

With the way some Xbox fans talk about Japanese games you can only guess. Lots of racists, phobics, or whatever out there that support Xbox. Like Crapgamer, who has called Sony rice eaters.

This goes for both sides. What? You never seen the N-word or the term Xfags overly used by some PS fans?

That's what i wonder. I guess maybe it's just a way to counter how PS fans call Microsoft's games dudebro shooters or something. A good game is a good game. I don't get why some Xbox fans act like Japanese games aren't a good thing to have. Like 3 Japanese games don't equal the importance of one western game because reasons.

I've noticed that some people like Crapgamer put the importance on wether or not something will sell big. And if it doesn't ..then the game is too niche to care about or take a chance on bringing it to Xbox..so us Xbox fans shouldn't ask for it. We should buy a PS then..because LO2 has more chance to happen on...oh wait.

This isn't exclusive to Japanese games. I've heard people argue that game X flopped so there shouldn't be a sequel. Or the generalization that the people asking for a certain game are to blame for it not reaching that million mark. "You didn't support it enough"..Wtf. What if you bought the game and you want the sequel? Should you not ask for it, because you're not a majority vote?

My point is don't put much importance on what people with megaphones are saying. They might seem like a big deal on the net but there are more Jrpg fans on Xbox than people that agree and act like these individuals.

 

[menace-uk-]

The recent interview with Phil Spencer has given us a bit more clarity on where Xbox stands when it comes to first party and they promise to bring the same kind of commitment to that as they did for Xbox in general, great stuff!

https://www.theguardian.com/technol...ncer?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_BaconReader_Premium

But he also said one thing that has caused quite a commotion on sites like NeoGAF. Not a big surprise there because it can be quite a echo chamber there and also because folks just don't fully read an article and jump to conclusions. But enough of that, i want to know what is your take on this:



If he's talking about games like Watch_Dogs 2 (sadly) he's got a point, that one didn't do too great. But Jesus man, masses bought a Switch to play Zelda, a huge system seller. And Horizon did amazingly well too. So i can't really agree with him there. I get it though, their SP focused games so far haven't done too well at all but i'd say story-driven games overall are still doing really well. Witcher 3 and Fallout 4 say hi for example. Lots of people on GAF interpret this as ''You want story-driven games, get a Switch and PS4, we won't bother with them. Only Games as a Service (GaaS) from now on from us.''



People seem to have the perception that GaaS ONLY means MP focused games. By that logic i guess Gears 5 won't have SP anymore. Correct me if i'm wrong but can't GaaS mean games that offer both a robust story mode and a MP mode? And that the MP mode is where the GaaS things comes in? Phil mentioned those two story-driven indie games that he really enjoyed, which is fine but as a big SP fan (that undoubtedly favors Xbox) i do hope it won't be just the smaller indie games that are their story-driven games. Please let us have more games like Crackdown that offer both content for SP fans and MP fans.

Unless things have changed drastically for that game and that it only has a MP focus now...which would really really destroy me. But what is your take on what he said? How do you interpret it? I don't believe for a second they will only put focus on MP from now on, because no way that's going to last because not every game can stand on it's own with just MP. It does seem like MS won't soon make a game like Zelda and Horizon in the sense that it's solely SP focused and no MP at all, but i am fine with that. Just don't abandon SP though.

Name one Game As a Service game. The only games that really fit that description were pay monthly MMOs, and they are pretty much dead.

Multiplayer games are not GAAS games.

 

[The Wolf King]

Didn't Microsoft cancel Scalebound because Platinum was funneling Microsoft's money into other projects?

Should they just be ok with that just to put out a game that probably wouldn't have sold well anyway?

Never confirmed but hinted at by some so called insiders

 

[Kvally]

Name one Game As a Service game. The only games that really fit that description were pay monthly MMOs, and they are pretty much dead.

Multiplayer games are not GAAS games.

What about free to play games, like same Game of War on mobile. I wonder if that would be considered a service?

 

[menace-uk-]

What about free to play games, like same Game of War on mobile. I wonder if that would be considered a service?

Nope. It just s different business model that is equal to the traditional model...only with worse games and overpriced content.

There are not really any GAAS on console as far as I can tell. There are games, like Battlefield, then there is a mandatory independant service, Xbox Live, to play half the content.

 

[MosquitoSmasher]

Never confirmed but hinted at by some so called insiders

Interesting and quite sad. Especially because initially MS was being blamed all the way. People jumping to conclusions that they probably forced the developer to do some things or a situation similar to Phantom Dust. This was all on NeoGAF earlier this year by the way. I also remember a tweet from a website, forgot the name that they had the nitty gritty on what happened between Platinum and MS and that the details disgusted him. Naturally people jumped to the conclusion that MS was the evildoer. But it seems it's actually the opposite?

 

[yankeessuck]

Interesting and quite sad. Especially because initially MS was being blamed all the way. People jumping to conclusions that they probably forced the developer to do some things or a situation similar to Phantom Dust. This was all on NeoGAF earlier this year by the way. I also remember a tweet from a website, forgot the name that they had the nitty gritty on what happened between Platinum and MS and that the details disgusted him. Naturally people jumped to the conclusion that MS was the evildoer. But it seems it's actually the opposite?

It doesn't seem like anything. People on Twitter that claimed to be in the know blamed Microsoft and blamed Platinum. You can't blame GAF for believing what they want to believe while doing the same yourself.

 

[MosquitoSmasher]

It doesn't seem like anything. People on Twitter that claimed to be in the know blamed Microsoft and blamed Platinum. You can't blame GAF for believing what they want to believe while doing the same yourself.

Well the thing is, when they announced the cancelation my first thought was "why MS?" but soon I started thinking about other things. Like that it could be anything, it could be about how the project wasn't going anywhere, how MS put a lot of money in it and it was taking way too long, how Platinum maybe wanted another delay, or perhaps how it was MS that was meddling themselves too much in the project and not letting the dev do what they wanted. So I would like to say I take a neutral approach to this, but on Neogaf way too many people jumped to the conclusion that this was definitely on MS. A bit too quickly for my liking.

Whatever the case it sucks, because I wanted to see what this game would look like on Scorpio. Was really looking forward to it.

 

[Dno69]

It doesn't seem like anything. People on Twitter that claimed to be in the know blamed Microsoft and blamed Platinum. You can't blame GAF for believing what they want to believe while doing the same yourself.

Why else would you pull out of a project that you already invested a lot of money in?

It didn't seem like a mutual parting.

 

[menace-uk-]

Why else would you pull out of a project that you already invested a lot of money in?

It didn't seem like a mutual parting.

As with most things in business you don't thow away recoupable resources unless the cost of doing so is too great. The small details of why may never be known, but MS isn't going to throw away millions on a whim. This canccelation will also have a big negative impact on the Devs too, so wasn't intheir best interest neither.

 

[yankeessuck]

Why else would you pull out of a project that you already invested a lot of money in?

It didn't seem like a mutual parting.

We don't know what went on during development but look at Phantom Dust. Microsoft wanted more features but wouldn't increase budget. Devs couldn't do it and the game got canned. Microsoft could have been right to pull the plug on Scalebound while still deserving blame for how it got to that point. Or maybe Microsoft did everything possible and the game just looked like it going to be bad. We don't know.

But there is a big difference between "its Platinum's fault because they couldn't get the game done in a timely manner" and "Platinum stole Microsoft's money"

 

[The Wolf King]

Why else would you pull out of a project that you already invested a lot of money in?

It didn't seem like a mutual parting.

Not only that but MS removed all videos and tweets about the game

 

[TDbank24]

There are not really any GAAS on console as far as I can tell.

Halo 5 and Gears 4 are GaaS. If you can spend $100 on content that others unlock just by playing the game then that's offering a service. A way of keeping the money coming in. It's a smart move by Microsoft to swindle people since these games aren't cheap to make and sales haven't been great. They needed a way to recoup that money and they found it. Expect most Xbox exclusives to follow the trend now.

The GaaS model in Gears 4 is particularly troubling though. Coalition releases a free pack that you can purchase for 400 credits on the regular, has everyone spend their credits, and then the next day releases another pack everyone wants and offers them for $10/4,000 credits only available for 24 hours. So unless you have endless time on your hands you're forced to fork over that cash for the content. Or hope they put the pack back in the store eventually. This model completely killed the user base for that game. If you don't believe me, check the official Gears forums.

 

[menace-uk-]

Halo 5 and Gears 4 are GaaS. If you can spend $100 on content that others unlock just by playing the game then that's offering a service. A way of keeping the money coming in. It's a smart move by Microsoft to swindle people since these games aren't cheap to make and sales haven't been great. They needed a way to recoup that money and they found it. Expect most Xbox exclusives to follow the trend now.

The GaaS model in Gears 4 is particularly troubling though. Coalition releases a free pack that you can purchase for 400 credits on the regular, has everyone spend their credits, and then the next day releases another pack everyone wants and offers them for $10/4,000 credits only available for 24 hours. So unless you have endless time on your hands you're forced to fork over that cash for the content. Or hope they put the pack back in the store eventually. This model completely killed the user base for that game. If you don't believe me, check the official Gears forums.

So you think paying for content that is technically free is a service? That is like cooking your own dinner then paying a chef for it.

But, even if you go that way the distinction made from Phil makes little sense, as you can apply that very same thing to story driven games.