What does the Bible *really* say about same-sex relationships?
- Thread starter Flynn
- Start date
Tried watching it, but it won't let me. Can you give a gen summery. I know what I was thought in church, but in all honesty not one verse jumps to mind from the actual bible.
as soon as I posted that it says welcome to YouTube. The person who gave me this phone has pictures that he still wants so I can't reset it to get rid of his passwords. I'll try on the console in the morning.
chapter I read tonight was 1st Samual chapter 12. Added a something new to my nightly prair. For a new friend I hope it helps with his situation.
today I was walking back from pawning my moms ring (she died if cancer June 2011) and on the walk home I noticed two small churches. Got me thinking Might Start going again.
I know this is all off subject so I'll end with this.
why in the world has a game not been made about the bible. It has sex, violence, dragons/dinosaurs. Yeah it does bing it if you don't believe me.though they took those particular words out in the 60s or 70s . Remember dinosaur is a relatively new word compares to the bible. things that sell big time.
It would make a great game, and most people would already own the strategy guide for it.
I'm rambling so I'll stop.
Sorry just a long day at work and my body is exhausted but my mind never is.
chapter I read tonight was 1st Samual chapter 12. Added a something new to my nightly prair. For a new friend I hope it helps with his situation.
today I was walking back from pawning my moms ring (she died if cancer June 2011) and on the walk home I noticed two small churches. Got me thinking Might Start going again.
I know this is all off subject so I'll end with this.
why in the world has a game not been made about the bible. It has sex, violence, dragons/dinosaurs. Yeah it does bing it if you don't believe me.though they took those particular words out in the 60s or 70s . Remember dinosaur is a relatively new word compares to the bible. things that sell big time.
It would make a great game, and most people would already own the strategy guide for it.
I'm rambling so I'll stop.
Sorry just a long day at work and my body is exhausted but my mind never is.
Can't see it. I clicked the link and it took me to the gmail login page. I logged in and it lead me to my profile. 
That's what happened to me once it said welcome to YouTube.Can't see it. I clicked the link and it took me to the gmail login page. I logged in and it lead me to my profile.
KJVB
Romans 1:25-32
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
Leviticus 20:13
If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
Isaiah 5:20
Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
Galatians 4:16
Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?
Romans 1:25-32
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
Leviticus 20:13
If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
Isaiah 5:20
Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
Galatians 4:16
Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?
this is what I dislike. Was God truly speaking through the writers of the edited version of the bible that we have today? Most of these guys were persecuted exiled hermits during the time they wrote their passages.
why does their word ring more true than the crazy guy on the street corner?
why does their word ring more true than the crazy guy on the street corner?
No, a god was not speaking through the writers. It's just a book with a bunch of stories written by different people. It's fantasy, and it reflects the prejudices of it's time.
The bible is filled with so many holes, you'd think that for a book that is coming from god, it would be solid.
Human beings have an infinite capacity to rationalize that anything is right or that anything is wrong and both sides of an argument will use the Bible to prove they are right. This was even done during the Civil War. Nothing new going on here. Everyone knows on which side of the issue they stand, according to their own rationalizations, and further discussion is futile.
What's anyone's evidence for a god guiding anyone to write the bible?
No.
God spoke to me yesterday. I'm going to write about it. Since I claim it to be true, it's true.
While partially true, it's false to assume that two opposing opinions can be equally backed Biblically, and that's the point of the video. Truth does exist. Relativism is provably and demonstrably false.
If you read through the Bible, it's very clear about the act of homosexual behaviors. It's black and white clear.
It's also black and white clear that if God does not exist, then there's no problem at all with homosexual behavior. We are just advanced primates, not unlike any other species of animal, and all other species engage in homosexual behaviors, so we are (therefore) no better or worse if we engage in such behaviors as well. Of course, if there is no God, then there's also no concept of morally "right" or morally "wrong" with any objective basis. Without God, it's no more "good" to love a child than it is to rape and molest that child. Without God, we're lost in a sea of social adaptations for morality, all relative, and none of which are "better" or "worse" than any other suite of morality... the difference between Mother Teresa and Adolf Hitler would be morally equivalent to the difference between green and blue - that is - nothing more than preference; not better, not worse, just different.
For people who aren't Christians, I get it - they don't believe in the full gamut, much less specific doctrines... and the Bible's also clear that we as Christians shouldn't point the finger and judge non-Christians, because they know not what they do... but for the Christians who now believe that homosexual behavior is God's best for some, they need to understand that the Bible is actually quite clear on the issue, and they're just mistaken. The Bible never condemns the homosexual individual, or the individual with a homosexual orientation. The Bible only condemns the behavior as an abomination... and why? Because there's a better way.
That's why I loved this video. It shows the heart behind the message.
The applicability and timelessness of the truths depicted in it is good evidence that it wasn't man written. The fact that in thousands of years, no one has been able to show a clear contradiction of truths that it teaches.
That said, I wouldn't blame someone for not taking that evidence as enough to persuade them... but that said, there's no strong evidence to the contrary either.
So at best, we're left with "we don't know". If you claim it's not inspired by God, you need to have good/strong evidence for such a claim - and you don't. So at best, you've only shown that "you don't know".
It starts with evidence for a God. If there's reasonable evidence for God, and if our moral realities are to be believed (just as we believe our other senses, like smell, taste, sight, etc.) - then it follows that
This is fallacious for many reasons:
1. You don't believe in God, on your own admission. This is, therefore, far more plausibly an attempt to show irrationality in the claims of others, then it is to be a genuine experience.
2. Most individuals who make claims about hearing from God are not. You need multiple attestations for credibility.
3. If God spoke to you, it's uncharacteristic of one who heard from God to not even mention what God supposedly said. Therefore, likely a false claim.
There are many other reasons I won't get into, but clearly, this is a false claim... and not at all parallel to the scriptures.
This is a snippet. Just talks about the principles, and the first of 12 typical arguments against Biblical teachings on homosexuality. The first argument he shoots down is the argument that "Jesus cancels out the law, therefore even though the old testament condemns homosexual behavior, we're under grace now, so it doesn't matter."
That's a common argument for the justification of homosexual behavior - even among Christians. This video shows why that's false, and why anyone who has that impression as misunderstood the theology behind Jesus' atonement.
Wow, Flynn, what a great post. I agree 100%. I feel really silly for arguing with you regarding little video game related things after reading something like this.
Last edited:
Its pointed out to be wrong by Paul in the new testament as well.
So is fornication and many other sins as everyone is guilty in need of the payment for sins that Jesus Christ paid with his blood.
So is fornication and many other sins as everyone is guilty in need of the payment for sins that Jesus Christ paid with his blood.
This has been debated ad nauseum, I know, but if you don't believe in God then you have to believe you came from a rock, which came from nothing at all (or maybe multiple parallel universes that came from nothing at all?). It takes a much greater faith to think that something (not only material, but time!) can come from nothing at all, or that matter is eternal and exists on its own, or even that consciousness can spontaneously arise from a rock (that came from nothing at all) over time, than it does to believe in a consciousness that exists outside of the space and time we occupy. Can I appeal to your logic that this is a difficult end to accept? That you came from nothing, and you will end up as nothing, and every memory about your and your entire life will end up as nothing?
As far as His relative power, think of how powerful you would be if you created a 2D world but were a 3D being. Heck, if you put ANY consciousness outside of space and time, which we all know were both created (whether it be by the Big Bang, or by God, or both!), then you have God.
Now then the hope is that He actually loves you, otherwise you are just as screwed as if He did not exist at all. But the good news is He does love you man and wants the best for you.
Last edited:
Amen, brother! Spot on.
I know I've heard some people ask me, "why is this gay stuff such a big focus? Why are gay people singled out as the worst sinners?" - choosing "our way" (rather than God's way) will always be worse for us and for others, and no non-Godly choice is better or worse than any other non-Godly choice. The good news is that the guy that engages in homosexual acts is no worse off than I am, or any other Christian. We all engage in behaviors the Bible calls out as behaviors that are not Godly... and if we all had to own the price/penalty for such behaviors, we'd all be lost. None of us would ever be able to 'earn' salvation... thank God we don't have to earn it. Jesus paid that price for us. By His grace, we are saved. All we need to do is accept it.
I think you bring up a really great point - "did all things come from nothing, and just popped into being?"
There's very strong evidence that time is not past-eternal. There's both philosophical evidence that past eternity is impossible, but perhaps more compelling is that with the Borde, Guth, Vilenkin singularity theorem, we have scientific proof for an ultimate beginning of all things (space, time, matter, etc.). If all things came into being a finite time ago (roughly 13+ billion years ago), then what caused all things to pop into being? How could it be possible to go from a state of non-being, to a state of being? Well, it seems to me you'd need a transcendent cause which is beyond space, time, and matter. If the cause were in space, in time, and material - then it would be impossible for it to have brought anything into existence, because the in space, in time, material 'thing' wouldn't have existed prior to the big bang.
So what does that leave us with?
Something that's timeless.
Something that's space less.
Something that's immaterial.
Something that's extremely powerful.
The multiverse hypothesis doesn't supercede the Borde-Guth-Vilenkin singularity theorem either. Even if a multiverse exists (which there's no proof of), even that must have had an ultimate beginning... so you're still left with, how did *something* come from *nothing*?
That sounds a lot like the concept of God to me.
Links: http://creationwiki.org/Borde-Guth-Vilenkin_singularity_theorem
lol,wut? There's plenty of nonsense in the bible. Just because man has found ways to "excuse" it away doesn't make it true. I can say I am god, and no one can disprove that. Does that make it true?
There is no evidence. For example, other than what is written in the bible...there is no "evidence" that Jesus walked on water. And the bible is filled with such claims that there is no evidence, other than what is written. Where is there evidence of "angels"? Or that Lucifer was exiled from Heaven?
I can write any fiction, doesn't make it "evidence" of truth.
Is there evidence that Mary was a virgin? Is there solid evidence that Jesus performed these miracles? Is there evidence that a clear world wide flood that killed off everything on the planet other than what was on this supposed boat?
Again, give me evidence, and not just words in the good book.
And no, I don't know. I also don't know that Zeus was real or not. Just because I can't bring strong evidence that Zeus did not exist, doesn't mean....he did.
None of that is evidence of a god. I could easily spin it and say all this is evidence that earth was one big petri dish that aliens used for there experiments.
Only because I told you I don't believe in god.
All ancient religions have a form of people being spoken to by gods. What makes theirs any less valid than yours? It's all a farfected claim, and any evidence you "claim" to present, can easily be debunked or brushed aside.
Doesn't need to be. Your scriptures are not the only religions of man. You're failing to see the point. When I say "god", what makes you think I'm referring to the christian god? Point is, you CANNOT prove me wrong. A god spoke to me yesterday. I don't believe in your christian god, but this deity did speak to me. Prove. Me. Wrong.
As well you should....we cannot disprove the existence of FSM, therefore, he must exist.