What does the Bible *really* say about same-sex relationships?

[Smurfboy]

Sadly, it's not "What if". It's actually happening. A person who believes in God and evolution at the same time is called Theistic-Evolution. In the book of Revelation, we are told not to add information to the Scripture. Theistic-Evolution has been adding a lot of information and is very dangerous.

 

[Qbert]

I'm going to say something about me that is going to come as big shocker..................I believe homosexuality is NOT normal. Yes, I believe it's natural, as in, it occurs naturally in nature....but I don't think it's "normal". Like cancer. Cancer is natural, but it's also an abnormality.


There, I said it.


Oh, and I go to church every single sunday. Bam, I bet I just blew everyone's mind.

 

[Videodrome]

Yes, being an atheist makes your actions meaningless. You described your short time here as "precious." Great, but what makes it precious? Where is the value in it? It's gone when you die. If atheism is to believed, you won't even care when you're dead, nor will anyone else because it'll be as if you never existed. Everything you've ever dreamed, every good deed you've done, everyone you've loved, everything that you think is "precious" will be gone. poof. So yeah, atheism equals emptiness equals meaningless.

What Flynn has been saying so eloquently is that if you believe in any moral absolutes, you need to consider the source of those absolutes, which are impossible to be found in atheism. If you can finally agree with him, with logic really, you need to switch over to a theistic view.

You're right, there are a vast amount of religions, and they all teach different things. It's up to you to figure out what is true and what isn't, but it begins by believing there is a God and you are not Him. It's been my experience, through the miracles that I've seen and the personal experiences I've had, that Christ is the only way.

Well, all these religions say the other is wrong. Maybe I feel I'd rather stay on the sidelines waiting for all the Religions to come into agreement. I mean even Christians say Catholics are going to Hell.


Otherwise, I like the position of Ignosticism. I do think this can be considered distinct from Agnosticism or even Atheism. If I'm asked to believe in God, I would really like to know more specifically what God is. What does God look like? What does Heaven look like? So many people are eager to get to Eternal Heaven but couldn't even describe it in detail.

Ignosticism or igtheism is the idea that every theological position assumes too much about the concept of God and other theological concepts; including (but not limited to) concepts of faith, spirituality, heaven, hell, afterlife, damnation, salvation, sin and the soul.

Ignosticism is the view that any religious term or theological concept presented must be accompanied by a coherent definition. Without a clear definition such terms cannot be meaningfully discussed. Such terms or concepts must also befalsifiable. Lacking this an ignostic takes the theological noncognitivist position that the existence or nature of the terms presented (and all matters of debate) is meaningless. For example, if the term "God" does not refer to anything reasonably defined then there is no conceivable method to test against the existence of god. Therefore the term "God" has no literal significance and need not be debated or discussed.

Some philosophers have seen ignosticism as a variation of agnosticism or atheism,[1] while others have considered it to be distinct.

 

[Smurfboy]

If I'm asked to believe in God, I would really like to know more specifically what God is. What does God look like? What does Heaven look like? So many people are eager to get to Eternal Heaven but couldn't even describe it in detail.

All of the questions are found in the Scriptures. What more could you ask for?

 

[Videodrome]

All of the questions are found in the Scriptures. What more could you ask for?

Is this painting accurate. When I die and see God, is this what he will look like?

 

[Smurfboy]

Is this painting accurate. When I die and see God, is this what he will look like?

Is this a trick question?

 

[Videodrome]

I dunno. Did the picture link right?

How about this one?

 

[Videodrome]

Or this?

 

[Smurfboy]

You silly, you...

 

[Videodrome]

 

[Videodrome]

 

[Flynn]

I'm going to say something about me that is going to come as big shocker..................I believe homosexuality is NOT normal. Yes, I believe it's natural, as in, it occurs naturally in nature....but I don't think it's "normal". Like cancer. Cancer is natural, but it's also an abnormality.


There, I said it.


Oh, and I go to church every single sunday. Bam, I bet I just blew everyone's mind.

Mind. Blown.

 

[Z A C K]

I'm going to say something about me that is going to come as big shocker..................I believe homosexuality is NOT normal. Yes, I believe it's natural, as in, it occurs naturally in nature....but I don't think it's "normal". Like cancer. Cancer is natural, but it's also an abnormality.


There, I said it.


Oh, and I go to church every single sunday. Bam, I bet I just blew everyone's mind.

Oh snap, now this thread is getting interesting.

 

[Smurfboy]

Qbert is fishing us! It could be a trap!!

 

[TFX]

He's the most respected, well known, most written about, and most influential person in all of history... why is that?

Because Europeans were imperialist and Christianity was the religion du jour. Otherwise we'd be treating Jesus in much the same way we treat, well, any other religion that didn't spread in this region. It's all so geographically-centric that it can't be called divine by any means. You say the people I knew were a bad example of Christianity, or just humanity altogether is a bad example, but that's sorta the whole point: the core word and conceits are so flawed that it requires a lot of faith (or an incredible amount of ignorance (or both!)) to keep the whole thing together.

Videodrome: I just need evidence. Just haven't seen it.

 

[Flynn]

Because Europeans were imperialist and Christianity was the religion du jour. Otherwise we'd be treating Jesus in much the same way we treat, well, any other religion that didn't spread in this region. It's all so geographically-centric that it can't be called divine by any means. You say the people I knew were a bad example of Christianity, or just humanity altogether is a bad example, but that's sorta the whole point: the core word and conceits are so flawed that it requires a lot of faith (or an incredible amount of ignorance (or both!)) to keep the whole thing together.

Videodrome: I just need evidence. Just haven't seen it.

...so that's a "no, I'm not interested or open to discussion", that's a mind made up.

Fair enough.

 

[BraddersTheDog]

It's gone when you die. If atheism is to believed, you won't even care when you're dead, nor will anyone else because it'll be as if you never existed.

What an absolutely idiotic statement. Firstly, some people don't need a belief in a god to make their lives meaningful. Secondly, who are you to say whether anyone will care after someone dies? Their family will care. Their friends will care. And as for the last part, "it'll be as if you never existed"..wtf man. Society is built upon the previous generation's endeavours. Knowledge, inventions etc. are all built up over time..but wait a minute...if I don't believe in God it doesn't matter what I do in life, it will be like I never existed...even if I find the cure for cancer and leave that as a lasting legacy.

I believe it was Maximus Decimus Meridius that said "What we do in life echoes through eternity". Unfortunately he died for his beliefs. Great film though.

 

[Z A C K]

What an absolutely idiotic statement. Firstly, some people don't need a belief in a god to make their lives meaningful. Secondly, who are you to say whether anyone will care after someone dies? Their family will care. Their friends will care. And as for the last part, "it'll be as if you never existed"..wtf man. Society is built upon the previous generation's endeavours. Knowledge, inventions etc. are all built up over time..but wait a minute...if I don't believe in God it doesn't matter what I do in life, it will be like I never existed...even if I find the cure for cancer and leave that as a lasting legacy.

I believe it was Maximus Decimus Meridius that said "What we do in life echoes through eternity". Unfortunately he died for his beliefs. Great film though.

It's like I posted 10 pages ago or so, some people are afraid of death and need to grasp onto hope of something more.

 

[Qbert]

Qbert is fishing us! It could be a trap!!

No, I'm dead serious.


I go to church every sunday, for about a year and a half now. Every....single....Sunday.

Look , I don't believe....but get this...that doesn't mean I don't "want" to believe. I wasn't kidding when I said I grew up in religious school, and became a bible thumper...then lost my faith. But there's still a part of me that desires to believe. Problem is, I just struggle to hard to believe. But I "want" to believe. The parts of the bible I've presented as what I deem as evidence of it not being true are because I really wish I can reconcile them.


Sounds strange? I know, a non-believer going to church.






Want your mind blown more? I actually participate with my church community and enjoy it. I go to the soup kitchen with my wife, we're always there helping out whenever they have functions and what not, etc. For example, we were there in the church hall this Saturday helping set up for this week's VBS classes that our daughters will be attending.

 

[Z A C K]

Want your mind blown more? I actually participate with my church community and enjoy it. I go to the soup kitchen with my wife, we're always there helping out whenever they have functions and what not, etc. For example, we were there in the church hall this Saturday helping set up for this week's VBS classes that our daughters will be attending.

Helping out in a soup kitchen sounds like a very moral thing to do. How it that possible if you don't believe?

 

[Qbert]

Quite a few pages ago, Flynn asked me why it mattered so much to me.....well, know you know.

 

[Qbert]

Continuation of blowing your mind.....this is always on my desk, and yes, I'm always reading it:

 

[MCPO]

What an absolutely idiotic statement. Firstly, some people don't need a belief in a god to make their lives meaningful. Secondly, who are you to say whether anyone will care after someone dies? Their family will care. Their friends will care. And as for the last part, "it'll be as if you never existed"..wtf man. Society is built upon the previous generation's endeavours. Knowledge, inventions etc. are all built up over time..but wait a minute...if I don't believe in God it doesn't matter what I do in life, it will be like I never existed...even if I find the cure for cancer and leave that as a lasting legacy.

Not an idiotic statement at all. Perhaps some will care when you die -- until they die. "Society" is ultimately meaningless, if you hold to an atheistic perspective. Whether in 50 years we wipe ourselves out in some massive global catastrophe or when the sun decides to burn out in 10 million years destroying all life as we know it, all the "knowledge, inventions, etc" as you describe will have zero meaning. What's the point?

I believe it was Maximus Decimus Meridius that said "What we do in life echoes through eternity". Unfortunately he died for his beliefs. Great film though.

How fun! Let's quote fictional characters now. Still, using your example, Maximus Decimus Meridius was no atheist.

Here's another great quote. "I have nipples, Greg. Could you milk me?"

Or another -- "Get your stinking paws off me, you damned dirty ape!" Which, by the way, doesn't mean that there really IS a planet of the apes. Great film, though.

 

[BraddersTheDog]

How fun! Let's quote fictional characters now. Still, using your example, Maximus Decimus Meridius was no atheist.

Clearly he wasn't an atheist. I'm quoting him because, quite apart from being the greatest film ever made, it's a great quote illustrating how our lives' actions have meaning and consequence for generations to come. And that doesn't require any god to be true.

It's clear that to you, God gives the world meaning and without Him there is no point in life. I have no problem with that, I just don't subscribe to the same view. In a sense it comes back to the idea of God as a comfort blanket making everything ok, answering the unanswered questions and giving life purpose and direction. Again, I have no problem with that, I just don't need a belief in God to give my life purpose and direction.

And your original statement remains idiotic and you've contradicted yourself in addressing my reply to it.

And as a separate point, why does life need to have meaning? Who says it does have meaning? Again, to me this comes back to the use of God as a comfort blanket. Like 'if God exists then it's ok because life isn't meaningless'. I have no problem with the thought process behind it, it's just that it isn't any sort of argument in favour of His existence. It's a reason to believe, not a reason for believing.

 

[Videodrome]

Not an idiotic statement at all. Perhaps some will care when you die -- until they die. "Society" is ultimately meaningless, if you hold to an atheistic perspective. Whether in 50 years we wipe ourselves out in some massive global catastrophe or when the sun decides to burn out in 10 million years destroying all life as we know it, all the "knowledge, inventions, etc" as you describe will have zero meaning. What's the point?

How does this not happen if you believe God exists or we will go to Heaven? Isn't the world going to be destroyed anyway along with our BluRays and XBox Games and SmartPhones?

If Jesus returns, would our Society have any meaning before him? Or would his second coming tear down and remake the world anyway under his rule?

Tell me all aspects of our Earthly life will be recreated in Heaven. I can have a nice house there with a home theater or I can go to Heaven's Shopping Mall. Or we can revisit the records of Earth's knowledge in a giant Library in Heaven. Surely we will all get to drive the best cars in Heaven.

 

[BraddersTheDog]

How does this not happen if you believe God exists or we will go to Heaven? Isn't the world going to be destroyed anyway along with our BluRays and XBox Games and SmartPhones?

If Jesus returns, would our Society have any meaning before him? Or would his second coming tear down and remake the world anyway under his rule?

Tell me all aspects of our Earthly life will be recreated in Heaven. I can have a nice house there with a home theater or I can go to Heaven's Shopping Mall. Or we can revisit the records of Earth's knowledge in a giant Library in Heaven. Surely we will all get to drive the best cars in Heaven.

Dibs on the Ferrari F40.

 

[Videodrome]

Since the Earth and the Environment will be gone, but all our cool s*** is recreated in Heaven....

I'm driving the monster flaming rocket semi-truck everywhere in Heaven.

 

[TFX]

...so that's a "no, I'm not interested or open to discussion", that's a mind made up.

Fair enough.

As someone who was a Christian for 25 years who spent a long time researching his way out, I don't appreciate the condescension. I know what I'm talking about and there is literally nothing you could say to convince me to come back unless God descended from the heavens right at this moment. You only need to drink poison once to know.

 

[Videodrome]

It's interesting to think of Theism as giving meaning to one's life, but as this thread shows, it's not so simple if a person yearns for a Homosexual Relationship. I that case, the existence of God belittles people or poisons the meaning of their life.

How does Theism add a special meaning to a person's life if they fall into this special Abomination category? Or the people this loving God decides to cast into Hell for eternal punishment?

Even if you get to Heaven, how would you feel if any parents or relatives of your's were sent to Hell forever?

 

[Smurfboy]

Atheist: I do not believe in God! I can do whatever I want and when I die, everything will be meaningless and will not be remember.

Believer: Okay, that's cool. Well then, I will go off to other places and teach little children about Lord Jesus Christ and Good News.

Atheist: Whoa! Hold on. What you mean? Why?

Believer: Um, they need to hear about Jesus and salvation. So that when they die they will enter Heaven and have an eternal life.

Atheist: [laughs] No way! They don't need to hear about Jesus! They're NOT religious!

Believer: But didn't you just said that as soon as you die, everything is meaningless, right?

Atheist: That's right! And they still don't need to hear about Good News!

Believer: That... that don't make any sense. You shouldn't waste your time fighting so hard against me just because I share the News with them.

Atheist: It DOES make sense! They don't need to hear it, anyway!!!

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

"For although they knew God, they neither glorified Him as God nor gave thanks to Him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools," Romans 1:21-22.