Numbers Discussion Thread

Are You Buying...

  • All Physical

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • All Digital

    Votes: 5 50.0%
  • 50/50

    Votes: 1 10.0%
  • Mostly Physical

    Votes: 4 40.0%
  • Mostly Digital

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Gamepass all the Way!

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    10
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I don't think it spells trouble for PS4 because both will get better over time. Let's wait until we see some undisputable evidence for this 2 x gaming performance before jumping to conclusions, not saying it's not going to happen. But when you jump the gun like this like how you jumped the gun in saying TF pushed X1 sales to 5.2-5.5 million for March NPD... ;)
Actually, I was right. 5 million was the number. I was off by a little.
 
Actually, I was right. 5 million was the number. I was off by a little.
Wishmasters.

master miller, did you miss my post earlier. I was betting you a whole x1 on the april npd. Whatcha think. I'm also giving you about 65k spread for x1.
 
2508606-7425327617-npd_h.png


Didn't realize both consoles were tracking higher than the Wii and PS2 in the US. Impressive.
 
If Titanfall sold 1 million copies on X1, wouldn't it be safe to assume that the game helped move 1 million units?


Well it will have sold more. 1 Million is just NA. I would estimate it Titanfall sold at least 1.5 million WW during march. Likely well over 2 million by now. However, I think it is a bit of stretch to link 1 million software sales to 1 million hardware sales.
 
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So, I thought those numbers were "shipped" like someone said earlier. Here's a tweet that proves otherwise:



Harry Balzania @bottygerjoe
@justpushstart @Xbox @aarongreenberg So 5 millio were sent to awarehouse. We don't know how many made it to retail or were sold to customers

Aaron Greenberg @aarongreenberg
Follow

@bottygerjoe @justpushstart @Xbox Not shipped, sold.

10:13 AM - 18 Apr 2014

So I guess its sold to retailers then...


He's full on misrepresenting what's going on, sold into retail is shipped to retailers. There is NO WAY IN HELL they sold 5 million to consumers when as of the end of 2013 they sold 3 million through (they were happy to make that distinction then btw) but haven't even sold a million combined in NA in the first 3 months of the year. When you combine their Jan/Feb/March sales in NA they are a little over 700k, no other market comes close to selling what NA does and they haven't been doing well anywhere in Europe except for a couple of weeks in the UK.

Edit: Did you check his other tweet? he says they consider retailers their customers and sold through to consumers is NPD so he's not saying they actually sold 5 million to consumers.

Aaron Greenberg ‏@aarongreenberg 14h
@bottygerjoe @justpushstart @Xbox Actually shipped is from the factory to warehouse, sold is to retail (our customer), sell-through is NPD.
 
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Any king of the hill fans? have you seen the episode when bill joins the harmonaholics and dale wants to totally yell at bill, but hank won't let him? That's how i feel right now.
 
Wasn't meant to be funny master miller. A serious proposition as to how much more PS4 will outsell X1 for April. It isn't meant to be bad, funny, sad or anything. Just a simple discussion. I do believe it will out sell it but quite a bit, this is a sales discussion. I'm not really saying it matters or that it is bad. And it isn't against you, but you have been throwing out a lot of wrong guesses lately, so I wanted to see if you take my wager.
 
2508606-7425327617-npd_h.png


Didn't realize both consoles were tracking higher than the Wii and PS2 in the US. Impressive.
PS2 didn't take off till after that. That is where the real sales battle for best just begins. PS1 also had a pretty sub par first year.
 
So, I thought those numbers were "shipped" like someone said earlier. Here's a tweet that proves otherwise:



Harry Balzania @bottygerjoe
@justpushstart @Xbox @aarongreenberg So 5 millio were sent to awarehouse. We don't know how many made it to retail or were sold to customers

Aaron Greenberg @aarongreenberg
Follow

@bottygerjoe @justpushstart @Xbox Not shipped, sold.

10:13 AM - 18 Apr 2014

So I guess its sold to retailers then...


Don't get all excited:

"
Aaron Greenberg ‏@aarongreenberg 14h
@bottygerjoe @justpushstart @Xbox Actually shipped is from the factory to warehouse, sold is to retail (our customer), sell-through is NPD."
 
Don't get all excited:

"
Aaron Greenberg ‏@aarongreenberg 14h
@bottygerjoe @justpushstart @Xbox Actually shipped is from the factory to warehouse, sold is to retail (our customer), sell-through is NPD."
lol, he keeps trying to stick to his number. Ah, I understand if it's my company I'd care who I sold to "retail" quite a bit. But it's teh retail chains that are a little unhappy, that doesn't or can't provide a bright picture. Not saying it is or isn't currently for MS though.
 
Funny thing is actually no developer has said the tools suck or the tools are a pain. However many have stated eSRAM is a pain, from there this idea about tools being bad has taken on a life of it's own. First it was "final API (which has since turned from API to "tools") hasn't been added to XBO yet" to Whitten making a statement via Major Nelson's podcast that they have pushed their "mono driver" (read: their XBO API that would replace any "broken" API they were using previously) which is their low level thin API to developers. From there more sites started talking about these "tools" that aren't as good as Sony's (which vast majority of said speculation coincidentally started after the consoles launched and those pointless graphics comparisons started surfacing, but I digress). This was run through the banana phone and became "tools are very bad" to "tools are just broken". Meanwhile you can actually find very little information on what "tools" exactly are "broken". Their debugger? Their IDE? Their compiler? Their code editor? (This is largely rhetorical since MS' IDE/tool is the visual studio suite and it's anything but "broken") Their Xbox One API? That wouldn't make any sense with what we have been told by MS themselves.

In case people forgot what MS stated about their XBO API. "Since E3, an example is that we've dropped in what we internally call our mono driver. It's our graphics driver that really is 100 percent optimised for the Xbox One hardware. You start with the base [DirectX] driver, and then you take out all parts that don't look like Xbox One and you add in everything that really optimises that experience. Almost all of our content partners have really picked it up now, and I think it's made a really nice improvement."



Neither Nvidia nor Intel would be privy to any knowledge about Xbox One development environment to make such a statement in regards to Xbox One and Direct X12. Not that it would matter anyway, it's clear Nvidia and Intel are talking about PC in regards to Direct X12 because PC is the main platform that suffers from underutilization of CPU resources comparative to GPU resources due to overhead that doesn't exist on consoles (since it's a single hardware target platform vs a platform with myriad of configurations ontop of driver overhead out the ass). Why do you think during the DX12 discussion panel at BUILD MS barely said anything about DX12 and how it relates to XBO but instead spent 99% of their time talking about the savings it brings to PC development? Hell at one point they even directly compare DX12 to console API because that is the goal of DX12 to bring a low level API with smaller overhead to PC making it easier to get power out of the PC platform and port games between XBO and PC. During the presentation MS makes note that much of what is new to DX12 was already present in XBO's API. XBO will benefit from bundles (Crytek rolled their own solution IIRC for Ryse) but bundles aren't doubling console performance; developers really aren't complaining about horrible CPU performance with XBO; nor is CPU performance the reason XBO versions of games aren't hitting 1080p like PS4 versions (since they use the exact same CPU down to the number of cores available). Incidentally right after BUILD all kinds of hilarious hogwash about a 2x graphics increased surfaced from all corners of the woodwork (Yes I'm referring to Wardell's article over at Neowin). People looking for confirmation bias championed his article (which he as pretty much back away from if you follow him on twitter); then throw in a few developers who are completely baffled by said article pretty much makes that entire thing a lulz event. I mean really if DX12 was going to provide a 2x graphics performance increase you'd think MS would have mentioned that...but they conveniently forgot to for some reason. They stated there would be a performance increase but not once did they quantify said increase, and for good reason, because adding a few CPU targeted improvements to your API doesn't magically get rid of a hardware deficit (that being less ROPs, ALUs, SPUs you know the things that actually do directly affect resolution). Nvidia and Intel made a statement because things like Mantle/RyuJIT/DX12 are doing what consoles have been doing since forever; low level abstraction, culling unnecessary overhead, better CPU pattern usage, better communication between CPU and GPU, etc. All of that is a staple of console environment by default.

You are an uninformed gamer that has no idea about what he is talking about.

Dx 12 the clod and tiled reaources will makes the xb1 perform better than two R9 290x because efficiency is better than brute force.

I mean why f***ing drive a lambo aventador when you can drive a honda civic vtec and go faster because of the efficiency.
 
Last gen LTD US totals.

360 - 41.3 Million (About half of the total number of consoles sold WW)

PS3 - 25.8 Million (Just under a third of the total number of consoles sold WW)
 
I will provide the sales in a very technical way. Its purely academic.

In order to compare, let us establish these.

All data provided are estimations, probably slightly inflated, but as close to reality as we can get.

We need apple to apple comparison, so either

Sold to consumers vs sold to consumers, or sold to retailer vs sold to retailers.

SO here are the data available

PS4
(March) Sold to customers (estimation) : 7 millions
(Jan) Sold to customers (estimation) : 4,2 millions

X1
(March) Sold to customers: No data
(March) Sold to Retailer: 5millions

(Jan) Sold to retailers: 4 millions
(Jan) Sold to customers: 3.1 millions

Base on Jan data, we can make a quick estimate that teh storage capacity of the retailers are at about 0.9 million (4m-3.1m)at least.

So a direct calculation (estimate) of March Sold to Customers is 5m-0,9m= 4.1millions
If we have a very optimistic outlook, say at least 60% of retail storage (compare to Januray) are being sold

5m-0,4m=4.6million (sold to consumers)

So these are the ratio

Jan: PS4/X1= 4.2/3.1=1.35-> PS4 sold 35% more

March PS4/X1 (optimistic figure)= 7/4.6=1.52% -> PS4 sold totally about 50% more.

So we can deduce, (base on the data, & a conservative estimation (bias towards MS)), that the lead of PS4 have indeed widen, but just a little, despite having their biggest game so far in 2014, & an attractive burden, price deduction.

Lets not get the carried away, at the ratio, & X1 does pretty well in fact in isolation.

What MS can do to narrow the gap, or at least keep pace, in my opinion, is 1st, obviously to launch in more nations, & secondly, a permanent price drop. On top of that, they will need to work hard to reduce the disparity for Multiplat titles, & of course show more great games.

Note: PS4 do launched in more nations compare to MS. However MS launch in the major 13 nations. Once I have more data, I can make an analysis on the impact of the extra nations. My gut feel is it make up between 8-15% of totally PS4 sales.
 
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So, I thought those numbers were "shipped" like someone said earlier. Here's a tweet that proves otherwise:



Harry Balzania @bottygerjoe
@justpushstart @Xbox @aarongreenberg So 5 millio were sent to awarehouse. We don't know how many made it to retail or were sold to customers

Aaron Greenberg @aarongreenberg
Follow

@bottygerjoe @justpushstart @Xbox Not shipped, sold.

10:13 AM - 18 Apr 2014

So I guess its sold to retailers then...

That is called spinning... it seems rampant with MS and many of its fans.
 
Trying to analyse sales stats before there is a chance for the PS4 supply to normalise and the Xbox to be released in all regions is futile. The real race starts this holiday season. In general PS4 selling 7 million in 48 countries -$100 is as impressive as Xbox One 5 million selling in 13 countries +$100. The very impressive sales for both consoles is the result of better supply than in previous generations, the true state of play will be apparent when supply + demand normalises.
 
[Becausete="The Wolf King, post: 162034, member: 45"]And why is that?[/quote]

Because after all of this bitching, spinning and lies.... April will be bad.
 
Looks like people continue to parrot the 5 million sold in to retailers as being the same as 7 million sold through to consumers.

I guess it's asking too much for certain people to just be honest with numbers on here.
 
The resolution stuff is going to be a one way ticket to locksville so it really should be saved for a separate thread that can be obliterated by the mods.

Stay on target, Red Leader(s)
 
Sony was paid for 7 million consoles while Microsoft was paid for 5 million consoles. Those are great numbers for both companies. Anyone trying to spin those facts into a negative have an agenda that goes beyond rational thinking.
 
last year Microsoft was upfront with what it was doing, and faced a back lash
which was considerable and so they do have an uphill battle to overcome perceptions..
all digital is the future, just not yet
I rather think they were turning themselves into a steam machine, my opinion of course

so its good, in spite of some, to say 5 million sold.. I am glad for them
and I am aware that with the ps3, Sony said it the same way
sold to retailers.. so if Sony did it so can Microsoft

I will not be concerned about Microsoft , they have not launched in all countries
maybe they did launch early, who really knows
They, like Nintendo [who owes no money] are fine financially
Sony has financial issues at this time and I want to see them get out of it [no the ps4 is not going to 'save' them]
so bravo to Sony for 7 million sold, they need it and I am happy for them
here is to Nintendo to innovate something new, to Microsoft succeeding, and to Sony continuing its sucess


but let us not eat each other up over sales figures.. life is too short to major on minors

the cruel glee I on see on some forums over Sony beating Microsoft
is simply reprehensible, cruel. So the cool kids gang up on another kid
who is down, cause it is the popular thing to do
 
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The whole shipped/sold does muddy the waters somewhat when trying to make comparisons but, yes, both are impressive numbers.

Xbox One was at 3.9 million shipped/sold to retailers and 3 million sold through at the end of 2013
PS4 was 4.2 million sold through at the end of 2013

Xbox One has shipped/sold to retailers a further 1.1 million in 2014
PS4 has sold through a further 2.8 million in 2014

Without knowing the Xbox One's sell through this year, it's impossible to accurately compare like for like.
 
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Sony was paid for 7 million consoles while Microsoft was paid for 5 million consoles. Those are great numbers for both companies. Anyone trying to spin those facts into a negative have an agenda that goes beyond rational thinking.

No Sony was paid for far more than 7 million consoles, unless you believe there is not a single PS4 sitting on a store shelf or in a warehouse.

7 million individual gamers have bought a PS4.

5 million individual gamers have not bought an Xbox One.

So the numbers are not the same. If you believe they are the same, and if you believe people saying they are not the same are "spinning," then explain, because even the companies are very clear that they are not the same thing.

Rather than an "agenda" this is just about being honest with numbers. I want to see if people like Mcmasters, TheGeneral, Kvally, Starlight777, can just be honest with these numbers. If we can't even have an honest conversation with objective numbers on this board why even bother talking to one another.
 
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