Numbers Discussion Thread

[DriedMangoes]

LOL at all of this "maybe the X1 can turn it around" nonsense. The system is five months old. The X360 had a year long start on the PS3, then the PS3 launched at $600 to abysmal sales. It was constantly trying to catch up for 7 years, and really didn't come close to neck and neck with the 360 in sales until last year. Oh, and lets not forget that the X1 has still outpaced sales of the 360 in the same time frame.

Its a marathon, not a sprint. Sales to this point are irrelevant. The more expensive console always sells less at first. It takes one game, one damn game to turn things around. Titanfall for instance, was responsible for many X1's being sold. In 2-3 years time, things will look completely different. The library of games for both systems will be fleshed out, an official price drop or two will have happened, and they will be neck and neck like they were at the end of last gen. Gotta love the hyperbole of the interweb. A collective consciousness of know nothings.

TF was supposed to be that one game for this year. I think price would play a bigger factor than a game right now. TF was supposed to be the one to put X1 on top of March NPD. It didn't. Right now, the best way to garner more sales would be a definitive price drop. $499 is still too expensive for what X1 brings to the table and this opinion is shared among the many potential consumers around the world as expressed in the sales numbers. Since 2014, the X1 steam has slowed down considerably when compared to the PS4. To make matters worse, PS4 didn't even have any sales or bundle deals. They sold on normal MSRP. What's going to happen when they start to make deals and game bundles? The sales will increase further. So, to sum it up, I think a price drop makes more of an impact on the X1 sales right now than that one game.

 

[Adam]

I was just trying to provide a incredibly simplistic overview. Not a course on supply chain management.

For a moment I forgot I was on the internet, silly me.

Lets go back to the regular discourse, shall we?

DER EXBOX BE GETTING POOPED UN BYE DER PS4 WER MACHEEN!!

 

[Mr. Titan]

Don't bother. They're desperately trying to recapture their child-like faith in Sony they lost, last generation. While Sony is doing well, lest just let them enjoy that remarkable illusion.

Who are you talking about? I'm suddenly a Sony fanboy for speaking common sense about the definition of sold through versus shipped to?

I never owned a PS1 or PS2 and didn't buy the PS3 until late 2011.

I've purchased all xbox consoles at launch.

 

[Hammerclaw]

Who are you talking about? I'm suddenly a Sony fanboy for speaking common sense about the definition of sold through versus shipped to?

I never owned a PS1 or PS2 and didn't buy the PS3 until late 2011.

I've purchased all xbox consoles at launch.

Who was talking to you?

 

[Mr. Titan]

I was just trying to provide a incredibly simplistic overview. Not a course on supply chain management.

For a moment I forgot I was on the internet, silly me.

Lets go back to the regular discourse, shall we?

DER EXBOX BE GETTING POOPED UN BYE DER PS4 WER MACHEEN!!

Your incredibly simplistic overview tried to equate sold through to shipped to, which again, is wrong.

And I don't get how 5 incredibly simplistic sentences of mine becomes a course on supply chain management?

I see what's going on though. You don't have a legitimate response to my post, so you try and call it out for being too complicated. Then you act childish and type something ridiculous.

 

[Adam]

Its pretty common for anyone who just takes things as they are (i.e. accepts reality), to be labeled a fanboy. This is the internet after all.

 

[DriedMangoes]

It's the rebirth of last gen Sonybot logic when the term was used for PS3. The retailers buy the systems from MS, therefor shipped = sold. I don't like the spin, but PR is what it is. At least MS hasn't gone into NPD hiding yet like Sony did for nearly two years.

So what we've learned here is that both companies do the PR spin when they aren't doing well. Last gen, the PS3 started off trailing behind, this gen it's the X1. The difference is the roles have now reversed, MS is the one being ridiculed.

I, for one, understand why they just announced ship to retailers numbers, because they don't want to announce how little they've sold (in comparison) since 2014 to consumers. At least, that's my take.

 

[Adam]

Your incredibly simplistic overview tried to equate sold through to shipped to, which again, is wrong.

And I don't get how 5 incredibly simplistic sentences of mine becomes a course on supply chain management?

I see what's going on though. You don't have a legitimate response to my post, so you try and call it out for being too complicated. Then you act childish and type something ridiculous.

Im glad to see you took it as a personal attack. My post literally said that they had not sold through 5 million units.

Nor did my regular internet discourse comment apply to you. I was referencing the general hyperbolic nature these threads take on.

I didnt refute your post because your post is correct. Do you just want me to refute it for the sake of refuting it? My comment was conceding that you were correct.

My comment about a "course on supply chain management" was about going down a rabbit hole. Opening a can of worms we should leave alone, at least leave alone here. Not the five sentences you typed.

Not attacking you. No need to take defensive posture, man.

 

[Andy]

So what we've learned here is that both companies do the PR spin when they aren't doing well. Last gen, the PS3 started off trailing behind, this gen it's the X1. The difference is the roles have now reversed, MS is the one being ridiculed.

I, for one, understand why they just announced ship to retailers numbers, because they don't want to announce how little they've sold (in comparison) since 2014 to consumers. At least, that's my take.

Yup, mine too. Whoever is in second place shifts to announcing sold-to-retail numbers, as a way of making themselves sound better. Not surprising. Not unique to MS.

Just something to be clear about, when you're talking about console sales figures.

 

[Mr. Titan]

Im glad to see you took it as a personal attack. My post literally said that they had not sold through 5 million units.

Nor did my regular internet discourse comment apply to you. I was referencing the general hyperbolic nature these threads take on.

I didnt refute your post because your post is correct. Do you just want me to refute it for the sake of refuting it? My comment was conceding that you were correct.

My comment about a "course on supply chain management" was about going down a rabbit hole. Opening a can of worms we should leave alone, at least leave alone here. Not the five sentences you typed.

Not attacking you. No need to take defensive posture, man.

I see, I see, no offense taken.

 

[Adam]

*high five*

 

[Mr. Titan]

So what we've learned here is that both companies do the PR spin when they aren't doing well. Last gen, the PS3 started off trailing behind, this gen it's the X1. The difference is the roles have now reversed, MS is the one being ridiculed.

Agreed, both companies have done it. And it's understandable why they do it.

What's not understandable is how some Sony and Microsoft fanboys try to reinterpret these numbers and make them into something they aren't.

 

[Mr. Titan]

*high five*

 

[Hammerclaw]

We're just as perplexed by the blind faith some people have in anything posted on the internet. Belief is not proof, not even the naive belief that corporations don't stretch or bend the truth or even outright lie.

 

[Troublegum]

We're just as perplexed by the blind faith some people have in anything posted on the internet. Belief is not proof, not even the naive belief that corporations don't stretch or bend the truth or even outright lie.

Are you okay?

 

[DriedMangoes]

Are you okay?

Hammerclaw goes off on his own sometimes, don't mind him.

 

[Kable]

So what we've learned here is that both companies do the PR spin when they aren't doing well. Last gen, the PS3 started off trailing behind, this gen it's the X1. The difference is the roles have now reversed, MS is the one being ridiculed.

I, for one, understand why they just announced ship to retailers numbers, because they don't want to announce how little they've sold (in comparison) since 2014 to consumers. At least, that's my take.

That's my take as well. They didn't quite hit the 5 million so they fell back to the shipped numbers because it's sounds better than 4.5 or whatever it actually is to avoid bumping into the fanboy favorite 2:1 ratio.

 

[starseeker]

Whats the point of having a discussion when people cannot even acknowledge differences between sold through to customers vs sold to retailers? These are very clear & distinct definitions.

If people want to believe Sony lie about the numbers, by all mean, if that makes you feel good, but it doesn't change the fact that
Sold to consumer != Sold to retailers.

Last time MS post both, in January (3.1m (to consumers)vs 4m ( to retailer) there is a 0.9 million difference!

So its not only not same by definition, but also quite a bit different in numbers that you cannot use them interchangeably.

Please, I am Xboxteam member since 2002 (never a member of a PS forum ever), proud owner of both OG XBOX & xbox360 (which is one of my all time favorite console). The competition does better (at the moment), why can't people just give due credit.

X1 is doing well actually, obviously the competition is doing better. Why people cannot just acknowledge that. As fan, its understandable to feel sad, but that different from debunking any non positive information for X1, or making broad accusation of competitors just to feel good.

Come on, we are better than that.

 

[DriedMangoes]

Whats the point of having a discussion when people cannot even acknowledge differences between sold through to customers vs sold to retailers? These are very clear & distinct definitions.

If people want to believe Sony lie about the numbers, by all mean, if that makes you feel good, but it doesn't change the fact that
Sold to consumer != Sold to retailers.

Last time MS post both, in January (3.1m (to consumers)vs 4m ( to retailer) there is a 0.9 million difference!

So its not only not same by definition, but also quite a bit different in numbers that you cannot use them interchangeably.

Please, I am Xboxteam member since 2002 (never a member of a PS forum ever), proud owner of both OG XBOX & xbox360 (which is one of my all time favorite console). The competition does better (at the moment), why can't people just give due credit.

X1 is doing well actually, obviously the competition is doing better. Why people cannot just acknowledge that. As fan, its understandable to feel sad, but that different from debunking any non positive information for X1, or making broad accusation of competitors just to feel good.

Come on, we are better than that.

http://www.lazygamer.net/24/fanboys-are-in-love-with-their-consoles/

 

[Hammerclaw]

Hammerclaw goes off on his own sometimes, don't mind him.

Trust no one. The truth is out there. Gotta run. The Sony Shutzstaffein is breaking down my door.

 

[PermanentSelfBan]

Come on, we are better than that.

No, no we're not.

 

[Plainview]

Who cares what numbers Microsoft uses? For 100,00,000 units Sony was using the same speak last gen. It was never a big deal then and it shouldn't be now. It's still the cool thing to hate on every Microsoft move. It's how it is when a company does well. People do it to Apple now. It seems as if people were just eager to find anything Microsoft did so they can lulz at them. Microsoft handed it to them on a silver with DRM and always on and a bunch of PR blunders.

At this point there's really nothing negative that can be said towards Microsoft. They dropped DRM. They removed always on. They made Kinect usage optional because of some faux tinfoil hat fears. They've done nothing but try to re-connect with the 'gamer' that people claim, I believe claim incorrectly, they didn't care about.

Microsoft has a hill to climb with the Xbox One and they're trying to climb that hill. No matter how many gifs are posted that they're behind Sony in console sales won't change the fact they've had an amazing launch and continue to do so.

 

[JinCA]

I stand corrected then. Apologies.

Ok let me rephrase. I don't remember others making a big deal out of Sony's sly PR last gen as much as they are Microsoft sly PR.

Actually a lot of people did talk about how Sony rarely commented on NPD or how they bundled PS2 and PS3 sales together.

 

[JinCA]

Who cares what numbers Microsoft uses? For 100,00,000 units Sony was using the same speak last gen. It was never a big deal then and it shouldn't be now. It's still the cool thing to hate on every Microsoft move. It's how it is when a company does well. People do it to Apple now. It seems as if people were just eager to find anything Microsoft did so they can lulz at them. Microsoft handed it to them on a silver with DRM and always on and a bunch of PR blunders.

At this point there's really nothing negative that can be said towards Microsoft. They dropped DRM. They removed always on. They made Kinect usage optional because of some faux tinfoil hat fears. They've done nothing but try to re-connect with the 'gamer' that people claim, I believe claim incorrectly, they didn't care about.

Microsoft has a hill to climb with the Xbox One and they're trying to climb that hill. No matter how many gifs are posted that they're behind Sony in console sales won't change the fact they've had an amazing launch and continue to do so.

Kinect hate isn't really about tinfoil hat fears, it's about people feeling they are being charged $100 extra for a piece of equipment that they don't want and doesn't appeal to them.

 

[Hazard71]

Who cares what numbers Microsoft uses? For 100,00,000 units Sony was using the same speak last gen. It was never a big deal then and it shouldn't be now. It's still the cool thing to hate on every Microsoft move. It's how it is when a company does well. People do it to Apple now. It seems as if people were just eager to find anything Microsoft did so they can lulz at them. Microsoft handed it to them on a silver with DRM and always on and a bunch of PR blunders.

At this point there's really nothing negative that can be said towards Microsoft. They dropped DRM. They removed always on. They made Kinect usage optional because of some faux tinfoil hat fears. They've done nothing but try to re-connect with the 'gamer' that people claim, I believe claim incorrectly, they didn't care about.

Microsoft has a hill to climb with the Xbox One and they're trying to climb that hill. No matter how many gifs are posted that they're behind Sony in console sales won't change the fact they've had an amazing launch and continue to do so.

It doesn't change the fact that last gen it was a big deal to xbox fanboys when Sony was doing it. I'm not saying you are one though.

 

[Plainview]

Kinect hate isn't really about tinfoil hat fears, it's about people feeling they are being charged $100 extra for a piece of equipment that they don't want and doesn't appeal to them.

And they would be incorrect. The reason it's $100 more is because Microsoft wants to make a bigger profit. But there's the perception that it is an I can agree with that.

 

[Plainview]

It doesn't change the fact that last gen it was a big deal to xbox fanboys when Sony was doing it.

Not that I remember but that's not really the point anyway. I don't remember pages and pages of who's numbers are what they say they are when Sony was releasing PS3 figures.

 

[Hazard71]

Not that I remember but that's not really the point anyway. I don't remember pages and pages of who's numbers are what they say they are when Sony was releasing PS3 figures.

Oh it happened but I agree it shouldn't be considered a big deal. Fanboys will be fanboys though.

 

[Hazard71]

I'm dying to add to the XB1 sales I just don't have the money.

 

[starseeker]

Not that I remember but that's not really the point anyway. I don't remember pages and pages of who's numbers are what they say they are when Sony was releasing PS3 figures.

I remember back in teh days.

but I think you mistaken intent. People are not trying to knock MS down, just the clear up that there is in fact a clear difference in figures between shipped & sold. When figure reached over 20 million or so, then the difference between sold to retailer & customers are close (by ratio), since there is only so much inventory space a store can hold.

But at the moment, with single digit million sales, the 0,9 million or so inventory space do make a difference. Beside whats the point of comparison when you do not use the same criteria for both sides.

Just saying.