Official Thread Pillow Fight that nobody wins with MOAR Jackie Chan and guys comfortable with STRETCHING their sexuality!

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OneBadMutha said:
Should keep in mind diminishing returns....as in a power gap is less and less perceivable to the average person. Xbox One X had a big advantage over the PS4 Pro yet the difference was rarely staggering. All that power went towards resolution which is only important to some enthusiasts. Next gen, ray tracing will be the new Ps....as in will replace resolution as the primary hog of system resources for differences that the mainstream probably won't pick up. A staggering power difference in GPU will take you from entry level ray tracing to mid level ray tracing.

That's why even though I don't mind discussing the power deltas, it's not that exciting. I believe it'll be better ray tracing vs better load times on most 3rd party games. It doesn't matter who the developers like developing for the best. Their publishers will decide where they make the games regardless of their favorite tools. Exclusives from the more talented studios should be exciting to look at regardless of platform. The most interesting aspect to me is how soon things like new tools and ML will have a considerable impact on game development.

As far as hardware goes, I'm just happy that Microsoft went all in on a gaming console. The amount of customization and thought that went into it is drastic compared to either of the previous consoles. It wouldn't matter to me whether the PS5 was better or worse in terms of performance. I just wanted the best possible effort and investment into hardware that's compatible with Game Pass and the Elite 2 controller. I'm getting that. I will get the Playstation for their exclusives and their exclusives would likely look great on a potato due to their dev talent. Now I can relax and just wait for the game announcements.
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I've been playing Horizon ZD again, and man they are probably the most beautiful graphics this gen. Their developers are just very talented. Can't wait to see PS5 games!

Now with such a powerful Xbox, I just can't wait to see what those 14+ studios they have can do with that thing too! Will existing X1S/X games like SoT get possible ray tracing and 4K/60?

I'm actually pretty stoked for both, basically! I'd be a little more geared up for PS5 if it launched w/ PSVR2, but I digress. I'm ready to see the actual games for both consoles, anyway.
 
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SpartanDawgX1 said:
It’s interesting watching Valiance making up his own rules to determine who wins. Xbox beats PS5 in all but one category.....yet that is a wash. This is video game, fantasy land console warrior talk at its finest.
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Yup 1 category and even that is now up for debate due to Velocity.
 
hrudey said:
So cloud imperium and id know nothing about how games are developed? Oh, right, you are entitled to your opinion and everyone else is entitled to agree with it.
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I'm talking about the DF employee why bring others into it?
 
Why is anyone arguing over which is more powerful? The XSX is more powerful, how that power shows up on screen is what's important (secondary to quality of games) and we won't know any of that until we actually see the games. If people want to go through another 7 years of looking at 300X zoomed pictures to point out that one console did something better than the other that's fine but I don't see the point. The XSX is more powerful, there are a couple of things that the PS5 will be better at based on the choices they made but neither one blows the other away in any department other than Sony's SSD speed advantage and we'll just have to wait to see gameplay to see how big (or little) of an impact that has on next gen games.

This isn't the same thing as 2013, we don't have a console that costs $100 more than the other while rarely being able to hit above 720p at launch. This is going to be a start of a gen where most games will likely be native 4K or using methods that make native vs reconstructed almost impossible to tell apart (Spider-Man and Horizon ZD look sharper than some native 4K games as it is) the CPU's in the new consoles are so close that we'll likely see both machines hitting the same framerates for 3rd party games and each one has specialized parts that fist party studios will be able to build their engines around and really make their consoles shine.

Personally I have more faith in Sony's first party studios than MS but that's because I've spent 7 years playing good to great 1st party Sony games and being pretty disappointed with what MS has done. I don't look for Sony to suddenly lose their touch and start making subpar 1st party games so PS5 is a lock for me, MS very well could turn things around and start putting out higher quality stuff and if they do that's great for everyone.
 
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VaLLiancE said:
Neogaf is no holds barred! I luv it! Reset has way 2 much SJW sensitive BS and is way to high on PS.
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I just read both for the news but I don't post at either one. Honestly Resetera for all of their talk about being respectful when they first started it up sure is a s***hole, the people there are just as rude as they say the people on neogaf are. This forum is still the only one I even want to post on, yeah we don't have insiders here but even the people who I have disagreements with from time to time I still like and want the best for, so many of the people on those other forums just come across like complete a******s.
 
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JinCA said:
Why is anyone arguing over which is more powerful? The XSX is more powerful...
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3tvtoerrs0.gif
 
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JinCA said:
I'm talking about the DF employee why bring others into it?
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Because he brought them up in the post you ignored because it didn't say what you wanted it to say.
 
JinCA said:
I just read both for the news but I don't post at either one. Honestly Resetera for all of their talk about being respectful when they first started it up sure is a s***hole, the people there are just as rude as they say the people on neogaf are. This forum is still the only one I even want to post on, yeah we don't have insiders here but even the people who I have disagreements with from time to time I still like and want the best for, so many of the people on those other forums just come across like complete a******s.
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we got like maybe two insiders but they literally work from within and I wouldn’t want them to risk their jobs.
 
karmakid said:
we got like maybe two insiders but they literally work from within and I wouldn’t want them to risk their jobs.
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I know of one who works from within but can't really be trusted and there is another who is a good guy but doesn't work in the industry and just posts rumors constantly which is totally fine.
 
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hrudey said:
Because he brought them up in the post you ignored because it didn't say what you wanted it to say.
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No that's not the reason, when someone who actually works on games says a guy who just comments on them made a mistake I take the one who actually does the work as the one who's more informed. I also said there could be some kind of miscommunication between them but the dev pointed out something specific that the DF guy said as being wrong.
 
GordoSan said:
I've been playing Horizon ZD again, and man they are probably the most beautiful graphics this gen. Their developers are just very talented. Can't wait to see PS5 games!

Now with such a powerful Xbox, I just can't wait to see what those 14+ studios they have can do with that thing too! Will existing X1S/X games like SoT get possible ray tracing and 4K/60?

I'm actually pretty stoked for both, basically! I'd be a little more geared up for PS5 if it launched w/ PSVR2, but I digress. I'm ready to see the actual games for both consoles, anyway.
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Yeah it's been my point. Talent >>>> power. Time and resources >>>> power. Tools and ease of development >>>> power. When these consoles are in the same family of parts, power comes into play when everything else is equal. For the big AAA mega publishers, all the other stuff is equal therefore games are optimized fully on both. You'll see differences that are easy to implement like ray tracing and low load times. If devs give options, Series X should run at more stable frame rates when all other is equal.

Ryse was the most technically impressive game early in the gen. Horizon ZD was the most technically impressive game later in the gen. Both stood out on clearly less powerful hardware.

I think ray tracing will be the new Ps. Using the extra CUs will be the easy win for devs...but it will come at a cost. Just like with RE3, when devs use that extra power for resolution, it make other aspects of the game worse. When devs max out ray tracing, it will come at a cost to other things. So in the end, I find the exhausting arguments a waste of time. 3rd party devs will have more advanced ray tracing on the Series X due to the extra CUs. It will hit performance in other areas. Load times will be better on the PS5. The impact of ray tracing will depend on the artistic direction. Fanboys will claim their trade-offs were better.

1st party exclusives will be what truly maximizes the potential of either console. It's great that Microsoft finally has a stable of talent to compete next gen. That's where the fun will be.
 
Hedon said:
Yup 1 category and even that is now up for debate due to Velocity.
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I don't think ms' software solution to Sony's SSD is going to overcome that particular deficit. Sony just has too good a component. How much that really matters is up in the air. It's not like the SeX isn't also sporting a super fast SSD.

On a more positive front- check out what a "simple" Raytracing GI mod that just uses z buffer data can do for Halo Reach!



It even adds light bounces for the emissive materials (lights). Adds color to the shadows, adds much better AO gathered shadowing. Much more depth. Now some the improvement is just remade settings too, but still...

There are some drawbacks like some hud elements lighting the scene, but imagine if MS added this as a toggle for BC.
 
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Also there is this. I know MS said they are using machine learning with SeX. This will make things really interesting if they can get 4k clarity while rendering 1080p or something. That would make 60fps RT much more feasible, or just 120fps with higher settings.
 
Frozpot said:
Also there is this. I know MS said they are using machine learning with SeX. This will make things really interesting if they can get 4k clarity while rendering 1080p or something. That would make 60fps RT much more feasible, or just 120fps with higher settings.
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I'm wondering if they can use ML to apply Ray Tracing to old games. To me this would be a killer feature because it changes the look of older titles. BC with ray tracing and 4K upscaling would be one hell of an announcement.
 
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Frozpot said:
I don't think ms' software solution to Sony's SSD is going to overcome that particular deficit. Sony just has too good a component. How much that really matters is up in the air. It's not like the SeX isn't also sporting a super fast SSD.

On a more positive front- check out what a "simple" Raytracing GI mod that just uses z buffer data can do for Halo Reach!



It even adds light bounces for the emissive materials (lights). Adds color to the shadows, adds much better AO gathered shadowing. Much more depth. Now some the improvement is just remade settings too, but still...

There are some drawbacks like some hud elements lighting the scene, but imagine if MS added this as a toggle for BC.
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Seems like it could address quite a bit though. But with advantages in all the others areas, it seems like XSX will do well. The thing is, I want both to do well because I want both.
 
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Hedon said:
Seems like it could address quite a bit though. But with advantages in all the others areas, it seems like XSX will do well. The thing is, I want both to do well because I want both.
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In COMPRESSION mode it goes up to 4.8gb/s.

Still half the speed if PS5 uses kraken.
 
Mcmasters said:
Its bulls***. This SSD stuff is in its madness levels now.
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The SSD is going to be a bigger deal than xbox fans want to admit but it's not going to be the be all end all of gaming either.
 
lowdru2k said:
Any unbiased non Sony fan links that says any of this?
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Seriously? read the stuff for yourself, it's all over the place and been posted in this thread, if you don't want to accept the info that's fine but if you think it's just going to be faster loading times you'll be disappointed. Why would Sony have spent the time and money going the route they did if they just wanted faster loading? they could have gone cheaper and done it the way MS did with the XSX which is still a lot better than what we are using in consoles today but only about half as good as what's in the PS5, Sony focused on that for a reason and it's silly to think otherwise. As I said that doesn't mean it's going to be the be all end all of gaming but it's going to do more than just give us faster loading.
 
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JinCA said:
Seriously? read the stuff for yourself, it's all over the place and been posted in this thread, if you don't want to accept the info that's fine but if you think it's just going to be faster loading times you'll be disappointed. Why would Sony have spent the time and money going the route they did, they could have gone cheaper and done it the way MS did with the XSX which is still a lot better than what we are using in consoles today, Sony focused on that for a reason.
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So you don’t have any non Sony people saying this? Got it.

I just think it’s funny just because Sony’s console is supposedly better in one thing now the consoles are equal and MS doesn’t have the better console. Some fanboy hearts going to be broken when these consoles launch.

So any info from Sony we’re supposed to believe, any info coming out praising XBox is not true......
 
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JinCA said:
No that's not the reason, when someone who actually works on games says a guy who just comments on them made a mistake I take the one who actually does the work as the one who's more informed. I also said there could be some kind of miscommunication between them but the dev pointed out something specific that the DF guy said as being wrong.
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And the DF guy pointed out the apparent misunderstanding and cited two companies that we know make games who said what he said, but again the ones who do the work are only trustworthy as long as they say what you want.
 
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JinCA said:
The SSD is going to be a bigger deal than xbox fans want to admit but it's not going to be the be all end all of gaming either.
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It will be awesome, true. I was playing Prey this weekend on my x with an external 7200 rpm, and on hard and I kind of suck, so I saw a lot of losing time. I realized Sunday it was on GP ultimate so I fired up the PC and on my nvme with 4.0 those loads melted away to negligible amounts. I just think that people on the Sony horse forget is that multiplatform games can definitely scale GPU / CPU to render better or worse graphics or effects easily, but you can't build a game to scale performance on disk io.
 
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