30 FPS delivers better story telling than 60 FPS in games

Unless we are talking about a point and click adventure/story game this is kind of pointless.

Applying this idea to Tomb Raider as Mcmasters is doing, is pretty... off.. you spend the majority of your time shooting and killing things, or otherwise interacting with the environment doing gameplay.

That's fine if cut-scenes are locked at 30FPS or something to achieve some "look" but almost all gameplay elements of games these days, at least the one's I enjoy playing, aren't far off from any "Twitch" shooter.

In my experience 3rd person games don't NEED 60FPS as much as first person games. Some trick of the brain when you are playing an FPS that makes you feel more "into" the environment.. pulling that POV back a bit makes 30FPS a bit more palatable.

In the end, 30FPS is actually good for any game... it's just better at 60FPS IMO.
Right. You DO realize that FPS are a creative decision, correct? Just sayin.... Although I can respect your opinion, the reason for the frames per second are a creative choice by the devs. Slower frames per second (30FPS) are for a more emotional connection with the character and animation. Faster frames per second (60) is for a more realistic, more true to life feel. You may enjoy your games at 60FPS but Im simply stating why said frames per second exist in the creation of interactive entertainment.
 
I was watching some porn video the other day and it kind of seemed like it was in fast forward, but it wasn't. Maybe it was 60fps?

I believe you were mistakenly measuring your "Faps Per Second". It has been found that while most males prefer a higher FPS, women seem to prefer a more variable unlocked FPS rate.
 
He isn't though. 60FPS in games does not diminish its cinematic style or hinder storytelling. I have never seen anybody compalin about this or even mention it, and I have never noticed it myself. Sorry, but I will take my expereince over some random fluff on the web.

30FPS being good enough for slower, cinematic story driven games, is a good point.
60 FPS is not going to diminish the experience but its overkill for a game like TOMB RAIDER when your aiming for a more cinematic feel for the game.
 
Right. You DO realize that FPS are a creative decision, correct?

Of course? Not sure why you said that.

Slower frames per second (30FPS) are for a more emotional connection with the character and animation.

That's fine.

The vast majority of your time in Tomb Raider is spent shooting and killing things, or doing fairly simple platforming tasks. You are only briefly interrupted by "story" elements from time to time.

Faster frames per second (60) is for a more realistic, more true to life feel. You may enjoy your games at 60FPS but Im simply stating why said frames per second exist in the creation of interactive entertainment.

And I'm simply stating that Tomb Raider is not a great example. It's an action game, not an interactive movie.

Perhaps you missed where I said 30FPS would be a design choice to achieve a certain look in cinematics?
 
And I really do wonder if this applies at all to games.. or any computer rendered imagery.

Toy Story looks great with motion enhancements on a 120hz set.. which basically ups the FR to 120FPS...

Regular movies look weird.. kind of like going to the theater to see Lord of the Rings in high frame rate.. was just.. bazaar.. your eye plays tricks on you.

In my experience that doesn't happen with computer rendered images.. whether pre-rendered or not, the higher the framerate.. it just looks smoother.
 
Of course? Not sure why you said that.



That's fine.

The vast majority of your time in Tomb Raider is spent shooting and killing things, or doing fairly simple platforming tasks. You are only briefly interrupted by "story" elements from time to time.



And I'm simply stating that Tomb Raider is not a great example. It's an action game, not an interactive movie.

Perhaps you missed where I said 30FPS would be a design choice to achieve a certain look in cinematics?
Perhaps you missed where 30 FPS also serves with animation, associated with more action driven, storytelling type games? The frames still serve their purpose even when in control of any one character. I dunno..... Im just speaking from a creative point of view seeing as how I've worked on numerous commercial endeavors. I'll stop now.:cool: FPS and resolutions are just a part of a much bigger picture but their all creative decisions. Thats all I got.
 
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And I really do wonder if this applies at all to games.. or any computer rendered imagery.

Toy Story looks great with motion enhancements on a 120hz set.. which basically ups the FR to 120FPS...

Regular movies look weird.. kind of like going to the theater to see Lord of the Rings in high frame rate.. was just.. bazaar.. your eye plays tricks on you.

In my experience that doesn't happen with computer rendered images.. whether pre-rendered or not, the higher the framerate.. it just looks smoother.


Maybe try it with something that is reaching for more a more realistic look. Maybe Tin Tin or that Polar express.
 
Doing so will ruin the experience as it was intended and will again, play tricks on the eyes. Its myth-making which go hand-in-hand with slower frame rates.

Well he said toy story looked fine, but normal movies looked weird. So I am curious to see at what point out eyes start to play tricks.
 
Didn't test audiences respond negatively to the high fps in the Hobbit?
 
Perhaps you missed where 30 FPS also serves with animation, associated with more action driven, storytelling type games?

The action sequences in Tomb Raider do not tell a story. Only a small fraction of games don't tell a story.. why would 30FPS during a sequence in Tomb Raider where I am shooting a bow at a series of bad guys somehow make sense?

I'm just speaking from a creative point of view seeing as how I've worked on numerous commercial endeavors. I'll stop now.:cool: FPS and resolutions are just a part of a much bigger picture but their all creative decisions. Thats all I got.

You have directed some indie films... you are trying to act like some expert on computer rendered imagery here.

The linked article is just some guy saying stuff.. trying to claim that somehow High Frame Rate hobbit somehow equates to "60FPS in story driven games = bad" and it... really doesn't.

I've watched The Hobit in 48FPS.

I've played Tomb Raider in 60FPS.

Watching Hobit at 48FPS messes with your brain.. makes you feel like things are moving in this weird slowed down but also sped up motion..

Playing Tomb Raider at 60FPS has none of that effect.

I'll take it even further... during full CG sequences.. 60FPS in Hobbit looks fine too. Like Smaug flailing around the room full of Gold... the movie has several scenes where you cut back and forth between nearly fully CG rendered aspects and filmed actors.. and your brain is constantly going back and forth between it looking good, and looking "off."

Conclusion = based on my experience, this article is just outright false and doesn't apply to games.
 
The action sequences in Tomb Raider do not tell a story. Only a small fraction of games don't tell a story.. why would 30FPS during a sequence in Tomb Raider where I am shooting a bow at a series of bad guys somehow make sense?



You have directed some indie films... you are trying to act like some expert on computer rendered imagery here.

The linked article is just some guy saying stuff.. trying to claim that somehow High Frame Rate hobbit somehow equates to "60FPS in story driven games = bad" and it... really doesn't.

I've watched The Hobit in 48FPS.

I've played Tomb Raider in 60FPS.

Watching Hobit at 48FPS messes with your brain.. makes you feel like things are moving in this weird slowed down but also sped up motion..

Playing Tomb Raider at 60FPS has none of that effect.

I've directed, shot, wrote and edited actual television shows, commericals and movies that were aired regionally on huge networks working from a very successful television studio as a professional straight out of college and have a plethora of knowledge and experience in every avenue of production including CGi......And I've done some indie's. :p

And again. I didnt say it would diminish the the game only that 60 FPS was overkill and not a wise creative decision when attempting cinematic experiences.
 
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And a higher framerate makes for a more responsive control regardless of the genre. This is sooooo going to be a "thing" I can feel it. “I prefer X version because it's 30fps, it has more movie magics feels!” lol this is like stockholm syndrome or something lmao.

I also laugh at trying to compare frames in videogame to movies as if there is some direct concrete correlation.
 
I've directed, shot, wrote and edited actual television shows, commericals and movies that were aired regionally on huge networks working from a very successful television studio as a professional straight out of college......And I've done some indie's. :p

Cool. Still doesn't change my point.. you have no experience with computer rendered imagery.. and apparently have no experience with PC gaming either, where one can play around with and see the difference between framerates..

Do you own a 120hz/240hz TV and have you played around with the settings that change framerates?

Being behind the camera really has nothing to do with this topic.. it's really from the viewers perspective.. and the experience of viewing/playing a game is incredibly different than watching film or television.

And again. I didnt say it would diminish the the game only that 60 FPS was overkill and not a wise creative decision when attempting cinematic experiences.

And you know this applies to gaming, how exactly?
 
Cool. Still doesn't change my point.. you have no experience with computer rendered imagery.. and apparently have no experience with PC gaming either, where one can play around with and see the difference between framerates..

Do you own a 120hz/240hz TV and have you played around with the settings that change framerates?

Being behind the camera really has nothing to do with this topic.. it's really from the viewers perspective.. and the experience of viewing/playing a game is incredibly different than watching film or television.



And you know this applies to gaming, how exactly?
I have no experience really with PC gaming. Thats true. But film and gaming are actually very similar--thus I make the comparisons. I'm not wrong however. Ask any real world dev. See for yourself. I know a lot and have worked with alot of different people in a lot of different places in many forms of entertainment. But again, you're right. Its from the viewers perspective. Again, just coming from "behind the scenes" as it were.
 
Find me one "real world dev" claiming that 30FPS is somehow superior for certain games than 60FPS.

The writer of this article is a student running a gaming review web site.. not a "real world dev."
I didnt say it was superior. I said....never mind. This isnt going anywhere.

FYI. There are a lot of film makers who play video games and not simply for the sheer enjoyment of it. Video games actually help to make better movies. Mmk. Im done.
 
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I rather have 60 or 120 fps in any games I play. Having less is worse, been true for me in about every game I've played.
 
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This is purely academic.

Before anyone start with the 24fps in film vs 30/60 fps, in game, I get the conclusion out of the gate first before explaining.

Its not the same!

Films are able to capture even very fast action sequence, with 24fps, is due to a well known effect, called motion blur. The same effect when you take a photo with a slow shutter speed, on a fast moving target.

A picture to explain. This is what a frame on a film looks like on fast moving subjects. In fact, you can even estimate the speed of action by measuring the distance of the blurring over 1/24 of a sec.
mabpfyi-p2.jpg

This explain why you do not get a headache when you watch a fast moving sequences. The burring ease the brain from overworking to visualize the action between frames.

You can try this at home. Watch a video with at least one fast moving sequences
(someone running, or car chase), then pause the video. Notice the blurring. Try again on a slow sequences (say conversation between 2 people), Notice the burring, or lack of)

Below is a frame of Halo. No blurring effect, like 99% of game, as well as traditional hand drawn animation.
Halo3_multiplayer.jpg

hence the faster the action, the more space between frame, that the brain need to fill the brain to subconsciously visualize what happen between frame. This explain why you feel dizzy when you play a game that change too fast, or have low FPS when the action is fast. Your brain is working too hard to digest and interpret the actions between frames.

With this knowledge now, you can then further understand why certain games requires higher FPS, while others need not.

On say a 3rd person game for instead, the environment does not moved that much, only the characters, hence a lower frame is normally ok. On a first person shooter, where the environment moves with your moment, teh brain have to take in more details, hence a higher frame rate may be required. The same goes with racing, especially in cokcpit view.

Hope is piece of information is helpful.
 
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30 fps during cutscenes and 60 fps for everything else seems to be a good compromise.
 
I didnt say it was superior. I said....never mind. This isnt going anywhere.

If your goal is story telling.. then 30FPS would be superior according to you/the OP. We are both aware of the conversation we are having, no need to nit pick my words.

Find me a real world dev who matches the claims of the OP. You just said you weren't wrong, and claimed "any real world dev" would verify it.
 
starseeker : Yeah.. basically.. this doesn't apply to videogames.

Anyone with experience playing videogames at different framerates can tell you that.. along with their experience watching video/film at different framerates.

edit: Also, in my experience it doesn't even apply to things like animated films.
 
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McMatesters, doing his best to prove the XB1 is just as good as the "other one" by claiming worse performance = more realistic and artsy.

seriously, thanks for the laughs.

Tomb Raider, better at 60fps.
Batman Arkham games, better at 60fps.
Bioshock Infinite, better at 60fps.
Max Payne 3, DMC, Darksiders 1 and 2, Assassins Cred series, Sleeping Dogs, Witcher 2, ALL are better @ 60fps.

Movies =/= games. One you sit passively and watch, the other you actively interact with and when doing said interaction the higher the framerate the smoother those interactions are and the smoother those interactions are the more immersed you become in that world.

But hey, ya gotta keep championing that underpowered new-gen tech, yo.
 
starseeker : Yeah.. basically.. this doesn't apply to videogames.

Anyone with experience playing videogames at different framerates can tell you that.. along with their experience watching video/film at different framerates.

edit: Also, in my experience it doesn't even apply to things like animated films.
Yes. Anyway, I can further explain some points, but I am running late to join my buddies watching football (soccer), & I will come back late to explain more about frame rates.
 
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Why settle for 30fps? We should go for 20fps, make it even more cinematic!

Meanwhile, I'll stick with responsive controls.
 
Maybe try it with something that is reaching for more a more realistic look. Maybe Tin Tin or that Polar express.

I think I have Tin Tin on Blu Ray.. maybe I'll give it a try.

I just leave the setting off normally as I watch a lot of TV/Film and it really looks weird to have the motion smoothing on.

It's also not the same thing as recording or rendering directly at a certain framerate, but it's related.