Face Off Preview : NFS Rivals ( One & PS4)

[astrograd]

Most rational people have been saying that both consoles would be more closer together in fidelity compared to PS3 and 360. I wouldn't put so much stock in what some rabid fanboys say....especially considering that nonsensensical comments have been coming from both sides.

Most rational ppl would have to include a tiny percentage of forumites on gaming sites in the past 11 months then because the overwhelming consensus was a massive difference in visuals across the board. Glad you agree with me though.

The bold has been a feature of AMD cards' scaler block since it was introduced with the 6000 series and costs nothing.

Between frames? I recall you used to claim all sorts of false stuff to dismiss the display planes earlier in the year so I'm gonna ask for a link. I did a quick search and found nothing like you say here. If DICE felt they had the headroom to adjust contrast and color depth like on X1 for the PS4 version, they would have.

 

[astrograd]

Then why did you say that Battlefield 4 uses better art assets on Xbox One? That's a very clear contradiction.

Read what I typed again. I never said anything of the sort. I said the art assets are clearer in the X1 version in terms of how they get displayed (as per the DF analysis side by side pics). That's due to the way the images are scaled presumably. DF noted it prominently in their original write up, as did the numerous folks online who thought the X1 version looked better due to the clearer look.

 

[Kassen]

Read what I typed again. I never said anything of the sort. I said the art assets are clearer in the X1 version in terms of how they get displayed (as per the DF analysis side by side pics). That's due to the way the images are scaled presumably. DF noted it prominently in their original write up, as did the numerous folks online who thought the X1 version looked better due to the clearer look.

By "art assets," do you mean textures? If so, how can you have clearer textures at a lower resolution of 720p? That too is a contradiction.

 

[astrograd]

By "art assets," do you mean textures? If so, how can you have clearer textures at a lower resolution of 720p? That too is a contradiction.

By having better IQ (in terms of things like better contrast and more vivid colors). Art assets aren't limited by frame res these days. We are a long ways off of that being the norm like it was prior to current gen launching. That's why 720p blu-ray live action films look way more detailed than 1080p videogames. HAving a clear image isn't only tied to resolution ya know.

 

[Qbert]

By having better IQ (in terms of things like better contrast and more vivid colors). Art assets aren't limited by frame res these days. We are a long ways off of that being the norm like it was prior to current gen launching. That's why 720p blu-ray live action films look way more detailed than 1080p videogames. HAving a clear image isn't only tied to resolution ya know.

Agreed....but contrast and vivid colors can be set at the tv level.

 

[Kassen]

By having better IQ (in terms of things like better contrast and more vivid colors). Art assets aren't limited by frame res these days. We are a long ways off of that being the norm like it was prior to current gen launching. That's why 720p blu-ray live action films look way more detailed than 1080p videogames. HAving a clear image isn't only tied to resolution ya know.

How does Battlefield on Xbox One have better IQ because of TV brightness and color settings? And how is image clarity not tied to how pixilated your image is? I'm not understanding.

 

[astrograd]

How does Battlefield on Xbox One have better IQ because of TV color settings? And how is image clarity not tied to how pixilated your image is? I'm not understanding.

No worries, it's not intuitive at all if all you ever read on the subject is gaming forums, which revolve around ppl discussing things from very limited perspectives.

Aspects of tech graphics change in terms of importance from one generation to the next. Back in the day, polygons were the most important thing for displaying nice looking art, to help it look more organic and closer to realizing the artist's design. Then normal maps with good resolution were important to help bring out details in the artwork without actually adding geometric detail directly. Last gen (PS2 era) the texture detail was limited by the frame res not being large enough to resolve those details. Current gen mostly fixed this at the expense of sub-pixel flickering issues. This coming gen, frame res isn't limiting texture detail in real noticeable way yet, so other aspects of IQ are more important to displaying clear assets (like good contrast ratios and colors to help the details in the assets pop and be distinct).

Here's some pics illustrating what I'm referring to with BF4's assets appearing sharper (click for bigger version):

 

[consolewarz]

Astro still thinks devs putting a contrast/sharpness filter on the Xbox version makes it the better one, despite that you can get the same effect by fiddling with your TV settings on the PC/PS4 versions. He then deliberately mixes GPU resolution/lighting/shading/effects tradeoffs with the contrast/sharpness filter, when the two have pretty much nothing to do with one another.

And now he's reposting old DF screenshots. Just running in circles there.

 

[astrograd]

Agreed....but contrast and vivid colors can be set at the tv level.

Only on a game-by-game basis, but not scene by scene as devs want.

 

[astrograd]

Astro still thinks devs putting a contrast/sharpness filter on the Xbox version makes it the better one, despite that you can get the same effect by fiddling with your TV settings on the PC/PS4 versions.

The utterly vast majority agreed with my opinion as to which looked better when those comparisons first came out. And fiddling with your TV settings one a scene by scene and game by game basis isn't exactly plausible logistically.

He then deliberately mixes GPU resolution/lighting/shading/effects tradeoffs with the contrast/sharpness filter, when the two have pretty much nothing to do with one another.

Dafuq you babbling about? I never did anything of the sort.

And now he's reposting old DF screenshots. Just running in circles there.

...to demonstrate the point I made. You could learn a thing or two from that...ya know, actually backing up your bulls*** once in a while. Just to mix things up and all.

 

[Kassen]

The art assets are clearly more pixilated in the Xbox One version. What are you trying to prove? And what does brightness and contrast settings actually have to do with IQ? I'm still lost.

 

[PermanentSelfBan]

OMG this thread is r******d.

 

[kb]

The art assets are clearly more pixilated in the Xbox One version. What are you trying to prove? And what does brightness and contrast settings actually have to do with IQ? I'm still lost.

He's trying to prove the XB1 has better IQ, by trotting out flawed captures and saying that the reviewers opinion doesn't matter. He for some reason cannot seem to grasp that the PS4 is more powerful but its not the end of the world.

 

[astrograd]

The art assets are clearly more pixilated in the Xbox One version. What are you trying to prove? And what does brightness and contrast settings actually have to do with IQ? I'm still lost.

1) You're blind. They aren't pixelated at all. They are sharper. Note the hair on the black guy in the first set of pics. If you mean the PS4 version has less obnixious jaggies, I agree. That's a point of IQ in its favor. The only point in its favor, in fact.

2) Contrast is a vital component of IQ. What's hard to understand about that? If you have s*** contrast the image looks either ghosted (too high) or it all blurs together (too low).




kb, we don't need reviewers to make our opinions for us. You can let the hivemind decide for you. I'll think for myself, thanks. And the captures were only flawed on X1 in a way that diminishes them, not in a way that favors them. Nice try.

 

[Yoyoniner]

1) You're blind. They aren't pixelated at all. They are sharper. Note the hair on the black guy in the first set of pics. If you mean the PS4 version has less obnixious jaggies, I agree. That's a point of IQ in its favor. The only point in its favor, in fact.

2) Contrast is a vital component of IQ. What's hard to understand about that? If you have s*** contrast the image looks either ghosted (too high) or it all blurs together (too low).




kb, we don't need reviewers to make our opinions for us. You can let the hivemind decide for you. I'll think for myself, thanks. And the captures were only flawed on X1 in a way that diminishes them, not in a way that favors them. Nice try.

Given that we know the art assets are the same in both versions, how can a person argue that the lower resolution textures (displaying at 720P) are "less pixelated" than higher resolution textures (900P), especially considering the original art assets are 1080P for the PC version. Must be magic.

 

[astrograd]

Given that we know the art assets are the same in both versions, how can a person argue that the lower resolution textures (displaying at 720P) are "less pixelated" than higher resolution textures (900P), especially considering the original art assets are 1080P for the PC version. Must be magic.

1) The textures aren't lower res, they are identical res. You just contradicted yourself in the very first sentence. At least you're efficient at looking stupid.

2) Neither version looks more or less pixelated. One is just sharper than the other due to different contrast which makes its assets pop more visually due to contrast and hue saturation differences. It totally erases the notable differences in resolution outside of aliasing (which is only notable on either version on thin lines and sucks on both in that area).

 

[Yoyoniner]

1) The textures aren't lower res, they are identical res. You just contradicted yourself in the very first sentence. At least you're efficient at looking stupid.

2) Neither version looks more or less pixelated. One is just sharper than the other due to different contrast which makes its assets pop more visually due to contrast and hue saturation differences. It totally erases the notable differences in resolution outside of aliasing (which is only notable on either version on thin lines and sucks on both in that area).

Explain how taking an original 1080P texture and downsampling and then displaying it at 720P gives it an "identical res" to downsampling and displaying it at 900P.

 

[astrograd]

Explain how taking an original 1080P texture and downsampling and then displaying it at 720P gives it an "identical res" to downsampling and displaying it at 900P.

Texture resolution isn't the same thing as frame resolution. Stop talking.

 

[PermanentSelfBan]

Shut up

 

[Qbert]

1) The textures aren't lower res, they are identical res. You just contradicted yourself in the very first sentence. At least you're efficient at looking stupid.

2) Neither version looks more or less pixelated. One is just sharper than the other due to different contrast which makes its assets pop more visually due to contrast and hue saturation differences. It totally erases the notable differences in resolution outside of aliasing (which is only notable on either version on thin lines and sucks on both in that area).

Again, these are settings that could be adjusted by set. These settings in no way point to the XB1 version being better, especially not in the tech department. However, we do know that the PS4 version is higher res.
So, with a little fiddling of TV settings, we know that we could get PS4 version to look better than XB1 version....which makes it easy to see how many that actually played it, prefered the PS4 visuals. Hell, even eurogamer said the PS4 had the advantage visually over XB1.

Perhaps the biggest takeaway is that, in this near-finalised state, the PS4 offers a superior experience on several fronts. The resolution is higher at 1600x900, as compared to the tried and tested 1280x720 on Xbox One, suffering as it does for more visible aliasing artefacts. Visually, the PS4 has a marked advantage with ambient occlusion effects too, which simply isn't matched on Microsoft's platform with the build we played.

 

[Yoyoniner]

Texture resolution isn't the same thing as frame resolution. Stop talking.

It is according to any human being which sees what is being displayed on your television. The textures are not really 1080P in the background the entire time on a 720P game. Textures are downsampled and adjusted for whatever resolution the game is developed for, and that would include adjustment of art assets for each individual version. Resolution is not a "filter."

BTW it would be helpful if you don't talk down to people and learn a little humility. Responses that begin with "shows how stupid you are" and end with "shut up" won't get you anywhere in life. Perhaps advice like this falls on deaf ears but it is worth a shot, because if you act like this on here there is a chance it has to come from somewhere in your personality that will one day come through at the wrong time. You are a physics grad student at a public university for pete's sake. There are people in here who hold higher degrees than you, including myself, yet you act like you are the only smart person in the room.

As a practicing academic Radiologist I always tell the clinicians upstairs that a picture is worth a thousand words. How about we settle this with some real world results. Shall I post actual screen grabs of, let us say, Assassin's Creed 4 running in native 1080P on the PS4 and in native sub-1080P on the X1, and you can judge for yourself which textures look clearer?

 

[Kassen]

I say just ignore him. His motive is clear, isn't it? Don't argue with someone who resolves to falsely prove that high rez textures look crisper in a game when rendered at 720p over 900p. The same for anyone arguing over brightness and contrast levels of these games making them the definitive version for graphics. Don't fall for such simple bait. Such fanwarz arguments aren't worth it imo.

 

[Yoyoniner]

You are probably right Kassen.

 

[Cody32599]

so the game still looks the same right?

 

[consolewarz]

so the game still looks the same right?

NFS: Rivals looks the same except for some effects like HBAO, yes. Buy it on whatever system you like, my friend.

Astro's ESRAM latency quantum physics, display pane massages, and deliberately mixing contrast/brightness filters with res/lighting/shading/AA tradeoffs should pretty much tell you what you need to know about his arguments.

The back of that bald guy's head is motion blur or possibly a single frame where a texture hadn't fully loaded in yet. Not to mention that's pre-release footage. If you played retail BF4 PS4 and recorded that scene, you could easily find a still shot where it looked sharper than that shot. This is the kind of long debunked cherry picking nonsense astro is still clinging to, even after both consoles are officially launched.

 

[Ketto]

Between frames? I recall you used to claim all sorts of false stuff to dismiss the display planes earlier in the year so I'm gonna ask for a link. I did a quick search and found nothing like you say here. If DICE felt they had the headroom to adjust contrast and color depth like on X1 for the PS4 version, they would have.

Argument from ignorance, desktop AMD and Nvidia cards have been able to do it since forever and yet it's not present in BF4 or any game for that matter. This is like saying if XBO one was capable of running COD:G at 1080p then it would have.

http://www.amd.com/us/Documents/UVD3_whitepaper.pdf

And yes it's per frame or otherwise it'd be a useless feature altogether, and it'd still be done on CPU...since it's something that's been capable on PCs since times immortal.

 

[consolewarz]

Astro's still claiming standard AMD GCN features are Xbox exclusive? Oh dear.

The display pane capabilities of both consoles are very similar. The PS4 equivalent is called the Display ScanOutDevice Engine. The main difference is the Xbox can have 3 overlapping panes rather than 2, according to vgleaks. Once again, it seems like straw grasping and "mountains out of molehills" over tech features that are very similar if not identical.

http://www.vgleaks.com/durango-display-planes
http://www.vgleaks.com/orbis-displayscanout-engine-dce

 

[Qbert]

The back of that bald guy's head is motion blur or possibly a single frame where a texture hadn't fully loaded in yet. Not to mention that's pre-release footage. If you played retail BF4 PS4 and recorded that scene, you could easily find a still shot where it looked sharper than that shot. This is the kind of long debunked cherry picking nonsense astro is still clinging to, even after both consoles are officially launched.

Pretty much this. From what I've played, the game is not blurry like that, and is near PC quality. Even eurogamer said PS4 looked better.

 

[Zero-O]

No worries, it's not intuitive at all if all you ever read on the subject is gaming forums, which revolve around ppl discussing things from very limited perspectives.

Aspects of tech graphics change in terms of importance from one generation to the next. Back in the day, polygons were the most important thing for displaying nice looking art, to help it look more organic and closer to realizing the artist's design. Then normal maps with good resolution were important to help bring out details in the artwork without actually adding geometric detail directly. Last gen (PS2 era) the texture detail was limited by the frame res not being large enough to resolve those details. Current gen mostly fixed this at the expense of sub-pixel flickering issues. This coming gen, frame res isn't limiting texture detail in real noticeable way yet, so other aspects of IQ are more important to displaying clear assets (like good contrast ratios and colors to help the details in the assets pop and be distinct).

Here's some pics illustrating what I'm referring to with BF4's assets appearing sharper (click for bigger version):

Why is the game sharper on X1.



Seems kinda...odd

 

[Kassen]

The back of that bald guy's head is motion blur or possibly a single frame where a texture hadn't fully loaded in yet. Not to mention that's pre-release footage. If you played retail BF4 PS4 and recorded that scene, you could easily find a still shot where it looked sharper than that shot. This is the kind of long debunked cherry picking nonsense astro is still clinging to, even after both consoles are officially launched.

Exactly. And Astro knows this too, but that won't stop him from continuing this his fanwarz agenda.