Next Gen(XB/PS) Zen 2/Navi

karmakid

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https://www.notebookcheck.net/The-PlayStation-5-and-Xbox-Scarlett-will-be-based-on-differing-generations-of-AMD-GPUs.423928.0.html


Sony and Microsoft have both already lifted the lid on their AMD-based next-generation consoles, but it seems that they may not be created equal. The extent of their partnerships with AMD seems to have been hidden in plain sight. Sony has been collaborating with AMD, whereas Microsoft has co-engineered a custom graphics chip.

The result is that the next PlayStation will feature custom 7 nm AMD Ryzen Zen 2 and Radeon Navi architectures, while the Xbox Scarlett will include "next generation Radeon RDNA gaming graphics architecture" as announced by Lisa Su, CEO and President of AMD. AMD has confirmed that next-generation RDNA will be based on a 7 nm+ FinFET process, which will support hardware-based real-time ray-tracing and next-gen RDNA. By contrast, the 7 nm Navi architecture will only be capable of shader-based ray tracing and current gen RDNA.

In short, the next generation of PlayStation and Xbox games consoles look set to be separated by a generation of graphics technology. The in-game effect of the difference between "GCN and RDNA" and "Next Gen RDNA" is unknown at this stage, but it seems bizarre that Sony would allow itself to slip a generation in graphics technology behind Microsoft. AMD is certainly painting things that way, anyway.
 

karmakid

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https://gamingbolt.com/ps5-and-xbox-scarlett-might-be-priced-at-399-according-to-michael-pachter


Industry analyst Michael Pachter recently we asked him what he thought the prices for both consoles was going to be according to him considering their specs, and surprisingly enough, he says both of them might end up costing a pretty reasonable $399.

“The specs suggest $500 or so,” Pachter told GamingBolt when asked what he thinks the price for both consoles will be, “but my bias is that Microsoft will announce $399 and Sony will follow suit.”
 

menace-uk-

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https://gamingbolt.com/ps5-and-xbox-scarlett-might-be-priced-at-399-according-to-michael-pachter


Industry analyst Michael Pachter recently we asked him what he thought the prices for both consoles was going to be according to him considering their specs, and surprisingly enough, he says both of them might end up costing a pretty reasonable $399.

“The specs suggest $500 or so,” Pachter told GamingBolt when asked what he thinks the price for both consoles will be, “but my bias is that Microsoft will announce $399 and Sony will follow suit.”
I swear Sony/Cerny said PS5 would be $500.....or am I totally wrong here?
 

JinCA

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I swear Sony/Cerny said PS5 would be $500.....or am I totally wrong here?
He never gave a price but he said something along the lines that gamers will see value in the advanced technology, I would be shocked if it wasn't $499.
 

Frozpot

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They didn't... But I want/think we are getting $600-700 worth of hardware for $500.
I hope so. Frankly, getting RT capable consoles next year is pretty amazing, imo, considering how serious a card you need on PC to do it now.
 

menace-uk-

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ould love know how he came to that specific number.

My knowledge of Ray Tracing is very limited, but my understanding is it can be acheived several ways. Hardware accelerrated seems to mean specific cores dedicated to the process but, you can also use shader cores to acheive the same result. The only real differentiater between methods is time/speed, as far as I can tell.
 

Frozpot

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ould love know how he came to that specific number.

My knowledge of Ray Tracing is very limited, but my understanding is it can be acheived several ways. Hardware accelerrated seems to mean specific cores dedicated to the process but, you can also use shader cores to acheive the same result. The only real differentiater between methods is time/speed, as far as I can tell.
RT cores don't seem to offer up much benefit outside of doing RT. A 2080 doesn't outperform the 1080 much in normal rendering/performance, but once you introduce RT- it's pretty dramatic.

Everything in computing is time/speed though. That's how long it takes to do a certain task which translates to how fast it can spit out a frame, or how much more it can compute in that same frame-time.

From what I've seen so far, just doing RT in software is substantially disadvantaged. Of course, AMD did show off Crytek using RT without cores. It's beginning stages for the Tech, for sure.
 

tumorman

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https://gamingbolt.com/ps5-and-xbox-scarlett-might-be-priced-at-399-according-to-michael-pachter


Industry analyst Michael Pachter recently we asked him what he thought the prices for both consoles was going to be according to him considering their specs, and surprisingly enough, he says both of them might end up costing a pretty reasonable $399.

“The specs suggest $500 or so,” Pachter told GamingBolt when asked what he thinks the price for both consoles will be, “but my bias is that Microsoft will announce $399 and Sony will follow suit.”
Plz be $399 k thanks. Gotta wonder if MS is gonna try to go lower since PS4 did when it launched? Feel like the price point at launch hurt a lot last gen
 

menace-uk-

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RT cores don't seem to offer up much benefit outside of doing RT. A 2080 doesn't outperform the 1080 much in normal rendering/performance, but once you introduce RT- it's pretty dramatic.

Everything in computing is time/speed though. That's how long it takes to do a certain task which translates to how fast it can spit out a frame, or how much more it can compute in that same frame-time.

From what I've seen so far, just doing RT in software is substantially disadvantaged. Of course, AMD did show off Crytek using RT without cores. It's beginning stages for the Tech, for sure.
I just think it is a bit early for all this stuff when we have seen nothing from both consoles.

Both consoles are doing Ray Tracing. Everything else is just console war BS.
 

Frozpot

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I just think it is a bit early for all this stuff when we have seen nothing from both consoles.

Both consoles are doing Ray Tracing. Everything else is just console war BS.
I agree there, but I disagree that doing it in hardware vs software won't matter. It could be the difference in a little use or a lot, or it could manifest in a substantial performance difference. It's definitely too early to know how much it will manifest. It is certainly worth noting if these differences do exist... We just don't know if they do for sure. For me it's the most interesting because it could potentially be the most impactful.

I'm not saying any of it in way of the "war", but more in the context of me being very intrigued to see how it goes. Honestly, I hope they both have hardware acceleration for it because that will mean it become a rendering standard..
 

menace-uk-

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I agree there, but I disagree that doing it in hardware vs software won't matter. It could be the difference in a little use or a lot, or it could manifest in a substantial performance difference. It's definitely too early to know how much it will manifest. It is certainly worth noting if these differences do exist... We just don't know if they do for sure. For me it's the most interesting because it could potentially be the most impactful.

I'm not saying any of it in way of the "war", but more in the context of me being very intrigued to see how it goes. Honestly, I hope they both have hardware acceleration for it because that will mean it become a rendering standard..
"could" is exactly the problem, we don't know and there for is pointless.We don't even know what Sony is doing. Everybody is assuming due to ghe vagueness of Ceryn's comment. For all we know Xbox's "hardware" could be cloud based.

When we get stuff to see and DF rip it apart then it will be a worthwhile topic.

I know you are you not waring, I was talking more about stuff like that MisterXmedia tweet.
 
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JinCA

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I hope so. Frankly, getting RT capable consoles next year is pretty amazing, imo, considering how serious a card you need on PC to do it now.
It sounds like any RT we get is still going to be very limited, I hope people aren't thinking it's going to be top level stuff.
 

Frozpot

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"could" is exactly the problem, we don't know and there for is pointless.We don't even know what Sony is doing. Everybody is assuming due to ghe vagueness of Ceryn's comment. For all we know Xbox's "hardware" could be cloud based.

When we get stuff to see and DF rip it apart then it will be a worthwhile topic.

I know you are you not waring, I was talking more about stuff like that MisterXmedia tweet.
Yeah, this stuff is really interesting and I am enjoying the speculation. I'm trying not to make absolute statements
 

menace-uk-

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Yeah, this stuff is really interesting and I am enjoying the speculation. I'm trying not to make absolute statements
I thing audio ray tracing could be far more impact than the visual side next gen. Audio is always left behind and yet is massively important.
 
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Frozpot

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I thing audio ray tracing could be far more impact than the visual side next gen. Audio is always left behind and yet is massively important.
It would be cool too, but I'm not sure how far the cost/benefit extends. We have Atmos and I think there are a few games that some form of audio ray tracing. I think Frostbite does some, and I even remember seeing a dev diary for Quantum Break that was doing it. Maybe Rainbow Six Siege? I remember even Halo 3 was supposed to have some kind of simulated sound distortion.

I suppose a more accurate sound model could certainly be beneficial, but Reflections and GI are more immediately impressive, imo.

In any case, I think there are probably even more applications for RT than we think. AI path-finding, or something, but I can't see how Hardware Acceleration would benefit that either...
 

menace-uk-

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It would be cool too, but I'm not sure how far the cost/benefit extends. We have Atmos and I think there are a few games that some form of audio ray tracing. I think Frostbite does some, and I even remember seeing a dev diary for Quantum Break that was doing it. Maybe Rainbow Six Siege? I remember even Halo 3 was supposed to have some kind of simulated sound distortion.

I suppose a more accurate sound model could certainly be beneficial, but Reflections and GI are more immediately impressive, imo.

In any case, I think there are probably even more applications for RT than we think. AI path-finding, or something, but I can't see how Hardware Acceleration would benefit that either...
Frostbite can do it but doesn't. I think some games on PC can be modded to get a partial RTA effect.

Dolby Atmos is just a different mixing method that allows fro greater control of sound direction.

Imagine the audio of a gun firing and being rendered in real time where objects and distance have an actual affect. Imagine a racing game where you don't need sight to know where a vehicle is. Now think of how atmospheric sound could be with everything having an affect.
 

Frozpot

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Frostbite can do it but doesn't. I think some games on PC can be modded to get a partial RTA effect.

Dolby Atmos is just a different mixing method that allows fro greater control of sound direction.

Imagine the audio of a gun firing and being rendered in real time where objects and distance have an actual affect. Imagine a racing game where you don't need sight to know where a vehicle is. Now think of how atmospheric sound could be with everything having an affect.
I agree. I love good sound in games. Battlefield being one of my favorites (Bad Company was great at this) . Halo 2 remaster also has awesome sound (was playing last night).

I've certainly played games were I could use sound to tell where other cars are and what not. Especially since I got Atmos Headphones.

I think the real interesting aspects of simulated sound would the distortion. We've already got proximity and direction... Except in PUBG where I can tell if they are above or below me.
 
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karmakid

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https://www.videogameschronicle.com/news/platinum-boss-says-next-gen-consoles-more-of-the-same/


Asked for his reaction to the platform holders’ plans, Inaba said: “It’s OK. And by that I mean, I’m sure that things will move faster, graphics will be better and maybe it will be easier with less wait times… that’s good for the consumer.

“But it’s more of the same, quite frankly, compared to previous generations. It’s nothing that’s disruptive or super innovative, if you ask me.”

He added: “Game hardware used to be about custom chips that you couldn’t do on PCs. Now you look at it and they’re just grabbing stuff that already exists.

“The Switch, for example, is a Tegra which already existed and the other consoles are using very similar chips and graphics cards to what you see on PCs, but maybe slightly updated. None of it seems unique to that hardware anymore.”

“It’s hard to get excited about stuff that kind of already exists, but has been repurposed to a certain degree,” he said.

“That’s why for me, things like cloud platforms represent innovation and something very, very different – they’re platforms that excite me and where I feel there is a lot more innovation happening.”
 

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https://www.videogameschronicle.com/news/platinum-boss-says-next-gen-consoles-more-of-the-same/


Asked for his reaction to the platform holders’ plans, Inaba said: “It’s OK. And by that I mean, I’m sure that things will move faster, graphics will be better and maybe it will be easier with less wait times… that’s good for the consumer.

“But it’s more of the same, quite frankly, compared to previous generations. It’s nothing that’s disruptive or super innovative, if you ask me.”

He added: “Game hardware used to be about custom chips that you couldn’t do on PCs. Now you look at it and they’re just grabbing stuff that already exists.

“The Switch, for example, is a Tegra which already existed and the other consoles are using very similar chips and graphics cards to what you see on PCs, but maybe slightly updated. None of it seems unique to that hardware anymore.”

“It’s hard to get excited about stuff that kind of already exists, but has been repurposed to a certain degree,” he said.

“That’s why for me, things like cloud platforms represent innovation and something very, very different – they’re platforms that excite me and where I feel there is a lot more innovation happening.”
To be honest, the hardwsre itself has never been what excited me. What excites me is the new experiences next gen hardware ushers in. I still remember how giddy I got when I saw Gears Of War foer the first, or shen I saw Gran Turismo on the PS1. I'm hoping that isn't more of the same.

These are two different perspectives, though.