PlayStation 4 and Xbox One resolution discussion.

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Ceger said:
I'm sorry, didn't mean to come off as combative to you. Just usually when you do say things (and usually appropriately I will add), I just hope the correct "surveillance" takes place.

We're good. I know you're out for me personally, at least as far as I know. ;)
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Oh, no problem. I forget sometimes that what I say is going to be heard as coming from a moderator, rather than (as I've been for most of my time here) just a member chiming in. My comment was meant as just another guy chiming in, not as "voice of the moderator" or something. I have to get used to people hearing what I'm saying as coming from authority or something, when it's really just me mouthing off.

p.s. Hopefully you left a "not" out of that last sentence...
 
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Anderson said:
Oh, no problem. I forget sometimes that what I say is going to be heard as coming from a moderator, rather than (as I've been for most of my time here) just a member chiming in. My comment was meant as just another guy chiming in, not as "voice of the moderator" or something. I have to get used to people hearing what I'm saying as coming from authority or something, when it's really just me mouthing off.

p.s. Hopefully you left a "not" out of that last sentence...
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LOL it's all good Anderson :) it's still new to you, but you've done a great job thus far. No worries about getting stern with the lot of us ;)
 
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Anderson said:
Oh, no problem. I forget sometimes that what I say is going to be heard as coming from a moderator, rather than (as I've been for most of my time here) just a member chiming in. My comment was meant as just another guy chiming in, not as "voice of the moderator" or something. I have to get used to people hearing what I'm saying as coming from authority or something, when it's really just me mouthing off.

p.s. Hopefully you left a "not" out of that last sentence...
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Oops. Yes I did leave a "not" out of there. Damn. Was that my subconscious? And yes, you do need to realize that everything you say has much more impact as you are a mod.
 
SevenDead1ySinz said:
LOL it's all good Anderson :) it's still new to you, but you've done a great job thus far. No worries about getting stern with the lot of us ;)
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Thanks, man, I appreciate that. I wasn't being stern, though, just yapping.

u2popmofo said:
Only resolution Anderson cares about is dispute resolution!
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:laugh:

Ceger said:
Oops. Yes I did leave a "not" out of there. Damn. Was that my subconscious? And yes, you do need to realize that everything you say has much more impact as you are a mod.
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Yeah, I need to remember that I'll be heard as "moderator," especially when I say stuff like that. It's kind of a bummer. I miss being able to just talk spontaneously, sometimes be a jackass, etc. Now I have to put everything I say through the "Is that appropriate for a mod to be saying" filter first. For instance, I saw a funny gif of Mattrick earlier today, and I thought about posting it here, but then I stopped myself because that wouldn't be "appropriate" for a moderator.

Meh. I can't have any fun anymore. *pout*
 
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Oh screw it.

3439.jpg



I love his face. What a goob. :laugh:
 
Anderson said:
Oh screw it.

3439.jpg



I love his face. What a goob. :laugh:
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There you go. Feel a bit better! He was always a goober; I alwys thought it was embarrassing for the Xbox brand having him speak at conventions. THAT voice and slouch.
 
PS4 version is 900p, X1 is 720p for BF4. Both upscaled to 1080p. And yet...it looks crisper on X1 apparently due to the display planes' ability to moderate color depths (I assume?). Some subtle lighting differences, though in some pics that's due to certain environmental lights (sirens) being at diff pts in their flashing cycle. Slightly more aliasing on X1 version (due to more scaling I assume).



http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-10-29-battlefield-4-next-gen-vs-pc-comparison-gallery
 
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There are differences, but they're basically so similar, the differences are negligible. When you watch either on a TV, the difference becomes even less apparent.
 
Both versions are treated to post-processing anti-aliasing too, seemingly equivalent to the refined, high setting on PC. However, this doesn't tell the whole story. As you may notice in our screengrabs, the actual results on PS4 lack the corresponding level of crystal clarity we'd expect of such a significant resolution boost. This should surely be a home run for Sony's console, but what is likely to be a software-based upscale to 1080p delivers less-than-stellar returns, and for better or worse leaves the Xbox One with an often crisper looking, albeit much more aliased image.
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http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-battlefield-4-next-gen-vs-pc-face-off-preview
 
aceattorney said:
There are differences, but they're basically so similar, the differences are negligible. When you watch either on a TV, the difference becomes even less apparent.
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Yup. I'd say this is a big win for MS's decision to include the dual display planes for game devs to work with. The numbers don't tell the real story here AT ALL. Looking at the pics side by side in DF's gallery, it is clear that in many, many scenes X1 looks clearer despite lower native res. In some pics it is rather significant too. Seems PS4 has a slight edge in framerates though (2-4 fps in some scenes, where X1 has an edge in other scenes).

The GAF thread is a thing of beauty btw. All the focus is on the res metric and everyone ignores the actual side by side pics. Ha!
 
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astrograd said:
Yup. I'd say this is a big win for MS's decision to include the dual display planes for game devs to work with. The numbers don't tell the real story here AT ALL. Looking at the pics side by side in DF's gallery, it is clear that in many, many scenes X1 looks clearer despite lower native res. In some pics it is rather significant too. Seems PS4 has a slight edge in framerates though (2-4 fps in some scenes, where X1 has an edge in other scenes).

The GAF thread is a thing of beauty btw. All the focus is on the res metric and everyone ignores the actual side by side pics. Ha!
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The end result comes across as X1 looking higher res and fidelity. So 720P (if that is correct) seems completely meaningless. Impressive.

I posted the following in the X1 thread...

Shadow/lighting problems with PS4 and X1 (more so with PS4) as well as banding (less color depth buffer). Better fidelity textures on X1 (crisper), yet uniforms at places look different (PS4 has more camo variation). Weird, almost equal back and forth pluses and minuses. Aliasing issues are about even. Both seem to be on par with particle effects.

Some easy to see areas...

Shadows/lighting: 45sec (PS4), 3:10 (X1), 3:20 (PS4)
Texture Fidelity: 2:35, 4:10 (road), 6:00 (building)
Banding: 2:25, 3:25

At :58 and 6:15 seems to be clearer that X1 might have higher resolution due to more soft blur focus overall on PS4 version versus X1. Hmmm...

At 5:10 and 7:45 (and other points throughout) X1 seems to have better clarity, color gamut and better lighting effects not to mention sharper texture quality. Again, Hmmm... Particularly paused about 7:54

Polygon is wrong by looking at the video comparison. It would seem to suggest lower res for PS4.
 
The scaler in xb1 seems to be a lot better. I bet if the ps4 version wasn't upscaled it would look a lot better. Still depressing that the xb1 can't match ps4's res =/

The washed out look on ps4 was pretty fruity though.
 
Hissatsu said:
The scaler in xb1 seems to be a lot better. I bet if the ps4 version wasn't upscaled it would look a lot better. Still depressing that the xb1 can't match ps4's res =/

The washed out look on ps4 was pretty fruity though.
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Thats because the PS4 doesn't have a scaler... The hardware scaler on the PS4 is reserved for mandatory Vita second screen stuff(it is fixed function anyhow). Developers are limited by GPU with types of scaler algorithm that they can utilize. Some scaling systems require branching. The swizzle copy move unit thingies on the X1 are programmable, and support branching, thus better for dynamic scaling operations...
 
Hissatsu said:
The scaler in xb1 seems to be a lot better. I bet if the ps4 version wasn't upscaled it would look a lot better. Still depressing that the xb1 can't match ps4's res =/

The washed out look on ps4 was pretty fruity though.
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Again, what does res really matter when the end result is overall better? There also seems to be contention on what version of X1 unit the results were ran from since other sources claim X1 runs 1080P native.
 
SevenDead1ySinz said:
Other other sources other than Kevin Dent?
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Mostly Kevin Dent.

Either way, wouldn't drop one console preorder for another over any of this. You either like the game or you don't. If you like it, looks great regardless.
 
XBoxNeo said:
Thats because the PS4 doesn't have a scaler... The hardware scaler on the PS4 is reserved for mandatory Vita second screen stuff(it is fixed function anyhow). Developers are limited by GPU with types of scaler algorithm that they can utilize. Some scaling systems require branching. The swizzle copy move unit thingies on the X1 are programmable, and support branching, thus better for dynamic scaling operations...
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Too bad that's not true. PS4 has a hardware scaler by virtue of the fact it's included in GCN architecture by default. It'd take more money to remove it than to keep it. The real reason is MS seems to have gone above and beyond just simply having GCN scaler; and have included a few different filters to help combat the blurriness that is generally associated with image scaling. I doubt Sony did anything of the sort (I'd eat crow if I was wrong, but I'm probably not) And the swizzle has nothing to do with the scaler in this case. That should be obvious since on all modern GPUs, swizzling is done with shaders...that are programmable (why do you think the HPC sector uses GPU based scaling algorithms?...and have been for like ever).

PS4 doesn't scale the image to Vita. It sends the framebuffer as is and Vita scales the image itself...like it always has (much like PSP and PS3, also PS4 uses a secondary chip to handle communication to Vita).
 
Ceger said:
Mostly Kevin Dent.

Either way, wouldn't drop one console preorder for another over any of this. You either like the game or you don't. If you like it, looks great regardless.
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Yeah, none of this BS would change my pre-order anyways..it's just fun to watch the carnage between fanboys..like any of it mattered outside of their little bubble.
 
At the end of the day, the expectation of an atomic bomb was more like a hand grenade. PC wins out again.

While for X1/PS4, there's some hits and misses against each other. So despite what each side thinks, it doesn't seem either version is a hands down winner against the other. Each system's performance is a lot closer than most people think. Given the previews of games we've seen (and this BF4 episode), there isn't a huge disparity anywhere.
 
Seems like the black crush was caused by digital foundry and isn't an issue with XBO. No crushed blacks and retains vibrancy; lovin the colors. Gray shooters are dead!

MS3GDy6.jpg
 
SevenDead1ySinz said:
Yeah, none of this BS would change my pre-order anyways..it's just fun to watch the carnage between fanboys..like any of it mattered outside of their little bubble.
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Yup. But be forewarned, the number of DF has touched up X1's images posts on another certain site is probably about 100+.
 
Ketto said:
Seems like the black crush was caused by digital foundry and isn't an issue with XBO. No crushed blacks and retains vibrancy.

MS3GDy6.jpg
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Looking at the bottom right pic, there's no way any game will look pitch black unless there was a certain reason why like he's in a shadow or something is just about fly over him making him go under a shadow etc....
 
Ketto said:
Too bad that's not true. PS4 has a hardware scaler by virtue of the fact it's included in GCN architecture by default. It'd take more money to remove it than to keep it. The real reason is MS seems to have gone above and beyond just simply having GCN scaler; and have included a few different filters to help combat the blurriness that is generally associated with image scaling. I doubt Sony did anything of the sort (I'd eat crow if I was wrong, but I'm probably not) And the swizzle has nothing to do with the scaler in this case. That should be obvious since on all modern GPUs, swizzling is done with shaders...that are programmable (why do you think the HPC sector uses GPU based scaling algorithms?...and have been for like ever).

PS4 doesn't scale the image to Vita. It sends the framebuffer as is and Vita scales the image itself...like it always has (much like PSP and PS3, also PS4 uses a secondary chip to handle communication to Vita).
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Right, and there are ~many~ scaling systems that require branching and can simply not be done on a GPU.

You are getting hung up on the idea that there are a couple of scaling techniques. There are not, there are hundreds. In particular there is a while area of research around scaling with an intact Z buffer. It can be used to enhance edges and reduce jag. It however requires branching to execute, thus can not be done on a GPU. You would need some sort of memory coherency system between the CPU and GPU to make that happen.

Oh wait, never mind.

Also, if Sony is sending the full image over wifi without re-sizing it before compressing it, they have successfully executed the most naive remote desktop solution in the history of remote desktop...
 
Ketto said:
A few insiders on GAF are saying that the XBO version is an old build and they have it up to 1080p now AND HDAO has been added from what they heard.

I need a "ohsnap" gif.
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LOL. I really need to go to bed. Zzzzzz... Later gamers.
 
Ketto said:
A few insiders on GAF are saying that the XBO version is an old build and they have it up to 1080p now AND HDAO has been added from what they heard.

I need a "ohsnap" gif.
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What's that mean in terms I can understand :p I'm an accountant..not a programmer lol. And that would fit with what Dent's been saying, that he was told today that it was 1080p but DICE (i think, maybe EA) investor relations (but who knows how reliable they are).

The above shots looks great, nice to see the contrast/blacks was a DF issue not a X1 issue..PV had that nailed.
 
Ketto said:
A few insiders on GAF are saying that the XBO version is an old build and they have it up to 1080p now AND HDAO has been added from what they heard.

I need a "ohsnap" gif.
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Link? I need to see this
 
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