The advancement of AI in videogames from servers in the cloud and beyond.
- Thread starter Mcmasters
- Start date
So, destiny's ai being dumb as some people here claim it to be, could actually be genius.
Lol
Yes, that is the point.
And the fact is, Titanfall's AI algorithms could easily be done offline, but the volume of entities, and the consistency of that experience could not have been done without the cloud, or at least a huge volume of dedicated servers spread out over the world...
Yep. And the advancement to AI Titanfall brings is a high volume of AI entities into MP sessions with more than a handful of real users.
That's an advancement that depends on the cloud.
AIN'T THAT A b****!That's an every day occurrence on these forums.
Right now, this very discussion is about how Respawn (a well known and respected developer with years of experience in developing games and computer A.I.) allocated A.I. through the Cloud in T.F., and the arm chair devs essentially telling us that they dont know what they are talking about, they didnt need the Cloud or even lying when they have little to no knowledge of how the Cloud actually works. Ultimately Respawn is full of s***, and you guys?, you guys are the pros.....Pfft.
McMasters Reasoning:
-Those who disagree with him = armchair developers
-Those who don't think the One and Xbox exclusive titles are flawless = Armchair developers
Also, before you start arguing with people and criticizing their opinions and call people 'arm chair' developers, why don't you actually play the game and see for yourself instead of just acting like a blind fanboy. It's funny how you are calling out people for not knowing how the cloud works, when you don't either. You don't even know how Titanfall works or plays.
You seem to be the only one defending Titanfall's AI on here. We all agree that's it's dumb and intentionally so. And I don't think of mentioned the cloud once in this thread, besides in this response to you.
Also, read my other posts in this thread. I'm not out to get Respawn, I think they are a great studio and that Titanfall is a solid game with a bright franchise future. However, the AI in the game ruined it for me, 80-90% of my multiplayer encounters were against mindless cannon fodder. It just got old really quick and I did not find it fun or challenging. The maps were well built, the gunplay was fantastic, and Titans were cool, but the AI ruined it.
I don't seem to be the only one that thinks this either, because this game has fallen straight off the map and doesn't seem to have anywhere near the staying power that Microsoft and EA had hoped.
That much, I 100% agree on.
I think it's clear that Titanfall benefits from the cloud, but it's not the 'showcase' title for cloud utilization done right/effectively... it's just one example of how the cloud makes experiences better... and it's one of the less interesting examples at that.
Xbox LIVE tracks far more, actually, and is way more robust.
Every single event that leads to the achievement being unlocked is tracked and time stamped. When you restore your connection, all events locally are synced with your cloud stats, and achievements unlocked accordingly.
So you could easily deduce the moment an achievement was actually *earned*, as well as the moment is was "awarded".
But there is still no timestamp which is a pet peeve of mine because I'm anal like that.
Yes, like so I can see exactly what time I got my platinum for Infamous Second Son.
http://psnprofiles.com/trophies/2481-inFAMOUS-Second-Son/jeffyjaixx
Notice how some achievements just says "unlocked offline"? Like I said, if you unlock it when you're not connected then you don't get a timestamp. Even when you're connected you only get to see a date and not the exact time you unlocked it.
https://account.xbox.com/en-CA/Achievements/Xbox/1414793176
With the power of the cloud AI in games will be taken to a new level. We've already see what's possible with Forza Motorsport 5. The sky's the limit and Microsoft will achieve great things with the Xbox One.
Cool.
I didn't know people were interested in knowing the specific time an achievement was unlocked.
On PS, what if you're offline, and you've set your PS clock incorrectly?
Makes sense.
What if the list of achievements (which currently just show you the date the achievement was unlocked) had another level to it... so you click on the achievement, and then you see not only the time stamp of when the achievement was unlocked/earned, but you saw the time stamp for every event that led up to that achievement being unlocked?
What if the list of achievements (which currently just show you the date the achievement was unlocked) had another level to it... so you click on the achievement, and then you see not only the time stamp of when the achievement was unlocked/earned, but you saw the time stamp for every event that led up to that achievement being unlocked?
Hmm??? Sorry, I got lost in the second part. What do you mean time stamps for events leading up to the achievement being unlocked?
Well, let's say the achievement is for "killing 100 zombies".
Currently, when I view my achievements online, I see I unlocked the "killed 100 zombies" achievement on a specific date. I don't get the time stamp for when I unlocked the achievement, just a date... and the date could be somewhat misleading, if I met the criteria offline, then connected my box online...
What if I click on the achievement I earned online, and then it took to a page that showed a timestamp for every zombie I killed? I could see, "Oh yeah - that time I was at Frank's house, man, that weekend I smashed 80 in one sitting... wow. That was cool." ...
Does that make sense?
Information over-kill, or interesting?
(and sorry, I know this is totally off topic)
Hmm... I think that would be too much information. The most important thing is seeing when I got the achievement and the confidence to know that no matter if I'm playing online or offline, the achievement will be timestamped.
...and that's the issue. How much information is enough? How much is too little?
Right now, I don't think there's enough data to suggest that most people need/desire/want timestamps. Usually the date is enough... in fact, you're the first person I've heard who wants timestamps.
Not that it's a bad idea, or not worth doing - it's just that giving millions of people the "right" amount of data is very tricky... some people want more, some don't care... so finding that balance of hitting critical mass of people that care is the sweet spot... and I don't know if it's dates, timestamps, or more...
Do people really want information about their achievements that detailed?
I barely care about the week I did it, let alone the hour. Although I can't imagine it would be that hard to include.
I barely care about the week I did it, let alone the hour. Although I can't imagine it would be that hard to include.
Titanfalls AI stinks and the amount of said AI on screen at once is not impressive. Seriously SWBF2 had 64 player battles that you could also add another 32 AI characters that were just as smart as Titanfalls AI back in 06.
So what are we getting at here?
So what are we getting at here?
If adding a timestamp is as simple as MS turning that feature on in the achievement coding, I don't see any negatives. Sounds like a good consumer request, and something they could monitor. I think they take that feedback on their new feedback site?
Hmm....that's a new one. Never heard that before. Here nor there, do we really need this type of commentary? Sounds childish.
Interesting! Thanks for sharing. I have only looked at the dates (and never played offline) of achievements. Never thought about the time I achieved. I would like that.
Just a random thought. If Titanfall 2 is also (if) on Sony PS4, & X1 version which uses the cloud measurably perform better or have better AI etc, then we may have a case that cloud is indeed game changing.
At the moment its all speculation, & very hard to quantify how much does cloud contribute to the game. From a technological point of view, does TF clearly stand out over MP games of the past, that it cannot be achieved, or crippled with cloud?
I confessed I never played the game, but I haven't read or seen any article/video that suggest Titanfall is technological Tour de Force.
For sure dedicated server help, but you can bet if its also release on competition console, dedicated servers will be used as well.
When Titanfall 2 released (if) for all next gen console, it will be very interesting to see. If cloud proved to be the cgame changer, then it will be a huge advantages over PS4 for sure, especially for MP loving console gamers.
At the moment its all speculation, & very hard to quantify how much does cloud contribute to the game. From a technological point of view, does TF clearly stand out over MP games of the past, that it cannot be achieved, or crippled with cloud?
I confessed I never played the game, but I haven't read or seen any article/video that suggest Titanfall is technological Tour de Force.
For sure dedicated server help, but you can bet if its also release on competition console, dedicated servers will be used as well.
When Titanfall 2 released (if) for all next gen console, it will be very interesting to see. If cloud proved to be the cgame changer, then it will be a huge advantages over PS4 for sure, especially for MP loving console gamers.
Exactly. A lot of AI on screen is not new to TF.
But hey, if a dev said TF couldn't be done without the cloud...let's believe them.
Is mmo AI processed in the "cloud?"
Like say world of war craft or diablo etc, the ai is processed server side right and that data is streamed to the user(s) so they all see the same thing?
Like say world of war craft or diablo etc, the ai is processed server side right and that data is streamed to the user(s) so they all see the same thing?
I am fresh from just finish learning the basic of Multiplayer game in Unreal engine 3, so maybe I can explain a little about server with the limited knowledge I have.
AI can be & have been process in the server, even without cloud. That is true. I have done that myself in my course of learning making multiplayer games. It shouldn't surprise anyone I guess. PC MMO etc have been doing it for years.
Back to AI:
The server can do all the most complicated calculation of how an AI will react, but it essentially only need to send the output of this computation to the player (say the movement & action of AI). Think of it as a chess game. Where Server is like a brain that tabulated what is the best next move. Then it output the move to across the network to the user. While the tubulation of data can be massive computing task, the output data needed is actually low bandwidth (essentially which pawn is moving, & the new location of the pawn).
Which I suppose why AI is one of the main computing task that is being used by server or maybe cloud.
The main huddle to make complicated things in server is bandwidth. That's why many of the computing heavy stuff which required high bandwidth is done on player machine side.
So instead of making an explosion in server, & pass the data to the user machine, its better to send parameters of creating an explosion (say location & size of explosion parameters) & have the local computer computing the explosion. That's traditionally how it is done, from my limited knowledge.
But of course, if cloud can now handle the explosion above(if that's what cloud can do), then that's game changing. Otherwise, what exactly is cloud, that make it different, and better from server ? I am just curious.
AI can be & have been process in the server, even without cloud. That is true. I have done that myself in my course of learning making multiplayer games. It shouldn't surprise anyone I guess. PC MMO etc have been doing it for years.
Back to AI:
The server can do all the most complicated calculation of how an AI will react, but it essentially only need to send the output of this computation to the player (say the movement & action of AI). Think of it as a chess game. Where Server is like a brain that tabulated what is the best next move. Then it output the move to across the network to the user. While the tubulation of data can be massive computing task, the output data needed is actually low bandwidth (essentially which pawn is moving, & the new location of the pawn).
Which I suppose why AI is one of the main computing task that is being used by server or maybe cloud.
The main huddle to make complicated things in server is bandwidth. That's why many of the computing heavy stuff which required high bandwidth is done on player machine side.
So instead of making an explosion in server, & pass the data to the user machine, its better to send parameters of creating an explosion (say location & size of explosion parameters) & have the local computer computing the explosion. That's traditionally how it is done, from my limited knowledge.
But of course, if cloud can now handle the explosion above(if that's what cloud can do), then that's game changing. Otherwise, what exactly is cloud, that make it different, and better from server ? I am just curious.
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