The advancement of AI in videogames from servers in the cloud and beyond.

[Flynn]

I haven't played Destiny, so I can't comment on Destiny.

But....I have played all the Halos, Borderlands, Skyrims, etc. In the many years I've been gaming, I've played a ton of games, and can tell you, the AI in TF is bad. Comically bad.
You, on the other hand, have not even played TF, and yet here you are commenting. I have played TF, and many other games, so I can compare. The AI is bad, very very bad. Pointing to a small number of maps that have some odd flying creature scooping up other bad AI doesn't make the game have good AI. Look to Borderlands, where you can stumble upon a bandit encampment, have the bandits actively try to get you, avoid attacks, duck behind cover, all while flying creatures above are trying to get you and the AI...and the bandits going after you AND the creature AI.
In Skyrim, dragons attack, and those that can, will come to your aid, pulling out the proper weapon in their inventory to attack a dragon (versus let's say, a random attack by several vampires), and those unarmed, run for cover.

There's nothing fishy here....TF just has horrible AI. And I get "why" the AI is bad, and am ok with that....but don't question why I'm not "impressed" with TF's AI, when there's nothing to be impressed about it.

This is a very naïve view.

The AI for the turrets is great. It works consistently, and does the job exactly as designed.
The AI for the Titans is fine. They're essentially mobile turrets... and you can even bump up their accuracy with the "chip" you can equip them with in-game.
The AI for the bots/grunts/etc. is predictable, non-threatening, and non-effective... but it wasn't designed to be 'life-like' human players.

So to make the global statement that "[all] AI in Titanfall is bad, very very bad" is seriously naïve, if not demonstrably false.

The focus of the gameplay is peer-player against peer-player, not player against bots. In Halo, the campaign depends on AI being a worthy opponent to the user. In Titanfall, the grunts/bots don't fulfill that role. The grunts/bots provide the function they were designed to, and they do it just fine. The AI for the turrets, ambient life, and Titans is just fine too.

...and there is something that people should be impressed with, in terms of AI in Titanfall - the volume of entities which exist per session which are controlled by AI, which engage with users in some designed capacity or another... and to do so with such consistency, and lack of lag.

Edit: I'd argue the game experience would be far WORSE if Respawn made incredibly life-like, interesting, and 'effective' AI bots. It would be hugely frustrating. The focus of the game isn't for the player to master AI encounters... the focus is for the player to master peer-encounters, and to utilize all facets of the gameplay to their advantage... and the bots/grunts are part of that.

 

[de3d1]

The original Far Cry at the time I thought was decent. KZ2-3 honorable mentions.

 

[Flynn]

And yet over 90% of the TF videos addresing the bots all have something in common...they all admit the AI is brain dead.

Again, you're gross over-simplification of your statement is telling... you've over-simplified the facts to the point where your view is just non-credible.

You can break it up into several categories:

1. Turrets
2. Titans
3. Bots/grunts
4. Ambient life

I haven't heard anyone complain about 3 out of the 4 of those... I've only heard people complain about the bots/grunts... and (again) the design of the game isn't to provide worthy AI opponents to real players. The intention of the bots/grunts is give the sessions more life, more texture, better player satisfaction (I can't lie, it feels great to toss an explosive in a crowd of bots, and blow them up - feels great), and to give other players camouflage in some instances (you can use burn cards to disguise yourself as one of the bots, for example)... so anyone making a comparison between the Titanfall bots and Elites in Halo is missing the point. That's like comparing Ruth's Christ's steaks to Denny's steak and eggs... they are designed with two very different experiences in mind... even if they both serve the same basic purpose.

 

[Qbert]

This is a very naïve view.

The AI for the turrets is great. It works consistently, and does the job exactly as designed.
The AI for the Titans is fine. They're essentially mobile turrets... and you can even bump up their accuracy with the "chip" you can equip them with in-game.
The AI for the bots/grunts/etc. is predictable, non-threatening, and non-effective... but it wasn't designed to be 'life-like' human players.

So to make the global statement that "[all] AI in Titanfall is bad, very very bad" is seriously naïve, if not demonstrably false.

Thanks for putting words into my mouth, but....I never said ALL. I made a general statement that the AI is bad, and for the most part...it is bad. AI for turrets is not great. It's ok. It's a stationary object that just shoots at what's in front of it. Tower defense games do it better with tons of turrets on screen.
The titan AI is ok, but not great, Ketto even showed a video. The majority of times I have my titan on auto pilot, he really doesn't do anything.

So yes, the majority of the time....the game has bad AI.

The focus of the gameplay is peer-player against peer-player, not player against bots. In Halo, the campaign depends on AI being a worthy opponent to the user. In Titanfall, the grunts/bots don't fulfill that role. The grunts/bots provide the function they were designed to, and they do it just fine. The AI for the turrets, ambient life, and Titans is just fine too.

No shat, but that's neither here nor there. We know the purpose of the bots. However, don't tell me that TF has impressive AI, which is what some people here are trying to push. It doesn't.

...and there is something that people should be impressed with, in terms of AI in Titanfall - the volume of entities which exist per session which are controlled by AI, which engage with users in some designed capacity or another... and to do so with such consistency, and lack of lag.

Other games had tons of smarter AI on screen at the same without offloading AI to the cloud, with great success.
Explain to me again why I should be impressed when most of the AI on screen are stupid? More doesn't always = better.

 

[Mr. Titan]

With youtube, twitch, and other sources (not to mention playing at friends houses, etc.) - it's not difficult to accurately and/or fairly assess games on many levels without owning them. There's an abundance of media out there, and opportunity to play without owning.

Not necessarily, especially in a game as fast paced as Titanfall. I feel that AI is something that you need play against to really get a good understanding of how good/bad they are and how they impact your experience.

By only watching a person mow down enemies on youtube you may just think that person you are watching is extraordinarily skilled. And not until you actually experience the game do you realize that it's not that the player that's good, rather it's the opponents/AI that just completely sucks.

I watched plenty of Titanfall footage before playing the game and only when I played the game did I actually realize how terrible the AI was and the negative impact that it had on my experience (which was otherwise positive).

You'd at least think that in a thread in which everybody else who has owned/played the game says the AI stinks, that the one person who hasn't played the game would stop arguing with others and telling them that they are wrong.

 

[Qbert]

Again, you're gross over-simplification of your statement is telling... you've over-simplified the facts to the point where your view is just non-credible.

You can break it up into several categories:

1. Turrets
2. Titans
3. Bots/grunts
4. Ambient life

I haven't heard anyone complain about 3 out of the 4 of those... I've only heard people complain about the bots/grunts... and (again) the design of the game isn't to provide worthy AI opponents to real players. The intention of the bots/grunts is give the sessions more life, more texture, better player satisfaction (I can't lie, it feels great to toss an explosive in a crowd of bots, and blow them up - feels great), and to give other players camouflage in some instances (you can use burn cards to disguise yourself as one of the bots, for example)... so anyone making a comparison between the Titanfall bots and Elites in Halo is missing the point. That's like comparing Ruth's Christ's steaks to Denny's steak and eggs... they are designed with two very different experiences in mind... even if they both serve the same basic purpose.

1. Turrets. Not many turrets in game. Turrets essentially boil down tower defenses. I've yet to be killed by a turret. Turrets are good against bots....which are stupid to begin with. Sorry, not impressed.
2. Titans. Titans on auto-pilot are not all that smart. They're a step above grunts, but still not smart. No where Halo smart.
3. Bots/grunts. ughhh, the worse AI I've seen in ages.
4. Ambient life. Most maps don't have ambient life with AI. Ambient life scooping up brain dead AI, not impressive.

The combination of all 4 above doesn't make it any more impressive. Not when games like Halo have smart foot soldiers, soldier's fighting in ground vehicles, soldiers in air vehicles, other soldiers taking command of vehicles when pilots/drivers are killed, etc....now, that's impressive. Right there, I gave you 4 categories in Halo that all occur on one large scaled battlefield, and all happen intelligently.



Seriously, has it been that long that people have played a Halo game that they forget everything going on at once in certain parts of the game?

 

[Flynn]

Not necessarily, especially in a game as fast paced as Titanfall. I feel that AI is something that you need play against to really get a good understanding of how good/bad they are and how they impact your experience.

By only watching a person mow down enemies on youtube you may just think that person you are watching is extraordinarily skilled. And not until you actually experience the game do you realize that it's not that the player that's good, rather it's the opponents/AI that just completely sucks.

I watched plenty of Titanfall footage before playing the game and only when I played the game did I actually realize how terrible the AI was and the negative impact that it had on my experience (which was otherwise positive).

You'd at least think that in a thread in which everybody else who has owned/played the game says the AI stinks, that the one person who hasn't played the game would stop arguing with others and telling them that they are wrong.

Qbert's gross simplification of his "AI stinks" statements is just non-credible, though, because it's not accurate - and neither are other peopls' assessments who jump to the same conclusion.

Players may not understand that the AI in Titanfall does exactly what it's designed to do (and therefore assume it's bad), but it compliments the gameplay experience exactly as it was designed to - and that doesn't make it "bad". It does exactly what it's supposed to. It wasn't designed or intended to be a focus of the gameplay. the focus is on peer-to-peer encounters, and the AI perfectly supplements that design.

In any case, the point stands - it's not impossible to form accurate assessments of many aspects of many games without owning it. To blanket dismiss people or opinions because they don't own the game is just fallacious, and says more about the one outright dismissing a potentially valid position than anything else.

 

[Qbert]

Qbert's gross simplification of his "AI stinks" statements is just non-credible, though, because it's not accurate - and neither are other peopls' assessments who jump to the same conclusion.

Players may not understand that the AI in Titanfall does exactly what it's designed to do (and therefore assume it's bad), but it compliments the gameplay experience exactly as it was designed to - and that doesn't make it "bad". It does exactly what it's supposed to. It wasn't designed or intended to be a focus of the gameplay. the focus is on peer-to-peer encounters, and the AI perfectly supplements that design.

In any case, the point stands - it's not impossible to form accurate assessments of many aspects of many games without owning it. To blanket dismiss people or opinions because they don't own the game is just fallacious, and says more about the one outright dismissing a potentially valid position than anything else.

And yet you've yet to address me pointing out games that do more with AI than TF, and does it better....all without the cloud.

So explain to me how it's gross simplification? People jump to the same conclusion, because we've all played it. We see what's actually going on.



Again, we KNOW what the AI in TF is supposed to do. We know it's purpose. We know it does exactly what it's supposed to do.
My question to you, is why do you think I should find it impressive, moreso than a game like Halo?

 

[penguinpig]

are the people who are saying the destiny ai is bad playing the story campaigns and the strike mode?

Qbert's gross simplification of his "AI stinks" statements is just non-credible, though, because it's not accurate - and neither are other peopls' assessments who jump to the same conclusion.

Players may not understand that the AI in Titanfall does exactly what it's designed to do (and therefore assume it's bad), but it compliments the gameplay experience exactly as it was designed to - and that doesn't make it "bad". It does exactly what it's supposed to. It wasn't designed or intended to be a focus of the gameplay. the focus is on peer-to-peer encounters, and the AI perfectly supplements that design.

In any case, the point stands - it's not impossible to form accurate assessments of many aspects of many games without owning it. To blanket dismiss people or opinions because they don't own the game is just fallacious, and says more about the one outright dismissing a potentially valid position than anything else.

so let me get this straight, TF's AI isn't bad it's just people dont understand its complexity, but destiny's AI is bad because i watched a video.

get this guerilla marketing clown out of here.

 

[Mr. Titan]

Qbert's gross simplification of his "AI stinks" statements is just non-credible, though, because it's not accurate - and neither are other peopls' assessments who jump to the same conclusion.

Players may not understand that the AI in Titanfall does exactly what it's designed to do (and therefore assume it's bad), but it compliments the gameplay experience exactly as it was designed to - and that doesn't make it "bad". It does exactly what it's supposed to. It wasn't designed or intended to be a focus of the gameplay. the focus is on peer-to-peer encounters, and the AI perfectly supplements that design.

In any case, the point stands - it's not impossible to form accurate assessments of many aspects of many games without owning it. To blanket dismiss people or opinions because they don't own the game is just fallacious, and says more about the one outright dismissing a potentially valid position than anything else.

Bad AI whether intentional or not is still bad AI. I understand that it was intentional. Nevertheless I found it to be unenjoyable and it ruined the experience for me, for what I thought was otherwise a good game. When 80-90% of my encounters are with mindless cannon fodder, it's just not fun for me.

And he is blanket dismissing people who do own the game. It's like me hearing a 10 second clip of a song off in the distance and telling everybody else who have hear the album that they don't know what they are talking about. Obviously the people who have heard the whole album will have a much better idea of how it is.

 

[TeKPhaN]

Bad AI whether intentional or not is still bad AI. I understand that I was intentional. Nevertheless I found it to be unenjoyable and it ruined the experience for me, for what I thought was otherwise a good game. When 80-90% of my encounters are with mindless cannon fodder, it's just not fun for me.

Well he is blanket dismissing people who do own the game. It's like me hearing a 10 second clip of a song off in the distance and telling everybody else who have hear the album that they don't know what they are talking about. Obviously the people who have heard the whole album will have a much better idea of how it is.

More importantly TF's doesn't show case a cloud advantage.

 

[illiniguy]

More importantly TF's doesn't show case a cloud advantage.

 

[TeKPhaN]

 

[Mcmasters]

are the people who are saying the destiny ai is bad playing the story campaigns and the strike mode?


so let me get this straight, TF's AI isn't bad it's just people dont understand its complexity, but destiny's AI is bad because i watched a video.

get this guerilla marketing clown out of here.

Jesus Christ are you guys being willfully dense?! IF YOU'D STOP COMPARING THE A.I. IN OTHER GAMES TO TITANFALL YOU WOULD UNDERSTAND WHAT IS BEING SAID. The grunts are used as fodder to add to the overall uniqueness, experience of the game. They are there to add FUN to the game, not to be a worthy substitute for human players. Now, if you dont like the use of the grunts, fine. But to keep stating the same r******d statements over and over, or to draw parallels from Halo to T.F., when its been said one thousand times WHY THE GRUNTS EXIST, shows either a lack in reading comprehension or lack of imagination. Take your pick. And Destiny's A.I. is the same typical s*** we've seen for years! Whats so different from it and other games of its ilk? NADA!

Open your mind to something new and you're sure to find it. Keep it closed and your doomed to repeat the same ol' same ol. Just ask that other hardware manufacturer.
No offense man but Jesus f***ing Christ!

 

[penguinpig]

Jesus Christ are you guys being willfully dense?! IF YOU'D STOP COMPARING THE A.I. IN OTHER GAMES TO TITANFALL YOU WOULD UNDERSTAND WHAT IS BEING SAID. The grunts are used as fodder to add to the overall uniqueness, experience of the game. They are there to add FUN to the game, not to be a worthy substitute for human players. Now, if you dont like the use of the grunts, fine. But to keep stating the same r******d statements over and over, or to draw parallels from Halo to T.F., when its been said one thousand times WHY THE GRUNTS EXIST, shows either a lack in reading comprehension or lack of imagination. Take your pick. And Destiny's A.I. is the same typical s*** we've seen for years! Whats so different from it and other games of its ilk? NADA!

Open your mind to something new and you're sure to find it. Keep it closed and your doomed to repeat the same ol' same ol. Just ask that other hardware manufacturer.
No offense man but Jesus f***ing Christ!

get a damn grip. lets stop making impressions on games we haven't played.

 

[Qbert]

Jesus Christ are you guys being willfully dense?! IF YOU'D STOP COMPARING THE A.I. IN OTHER GAMES TO TITANFALL YOU WOULD UNDERSTAND WHAT IS BEING SAID. The grunts are used as fodder to add to the overall uniqueness, experience of the game. They are there to add FUN to the game, not to be a worthy substitute for human players. Now, if you dont like the use of the grunts, fine. But to keep stating the same r******d statements over and over, or to draw parallels from Halo to T.F., when its been said one thousand times WHY THE GRUNTS EXIST, shows either a lack in reading comprehension or lack of imagination. Take your pick. And Destiny's A.I. is the same typical s*** we've seen for years! Whats so different from it and other games of its ilk? NADA!

Open your mind to something new and you're sure to find it. Keep it closed and your doomed to repeat the same ol' same ol. Just ask that other hardware manufacturer.
No offense man but Jesus f***ing Christ!

I think you're the one being dense. We know the purpose of the AI in TF. That's not the point here. The point is, people believing that TF couldn't be done without the cloud.
You bring up what's the difference between Destiny's crap AI and TF's crap AI? The cloud?

 

[Mcmasters]

Bad AI whether intentional or not is still bad AI. I understand that it was intentional. Nevertheless I found it to be unenjoyable and it ruined the experience for me, for what I thought was otherwise a good game. When 80-90% of my encounters are with mindless cannon fodder, it's just not fun for me.

And he is blanket dismissing people who do own the game. It's like me hearing a 10 second clip of a song off in the distance and telling everybody else who have hear the album that they don't know what they are talking about. Obviously the people who have heard the whole album will have a much better idea of how it is.

AIN'T THAT A BITCH! That's an every day occurrence on these forums.

Right now, this very discussion is about how Respawn (a well known and respected developer with years of experience in developing games and computer A.I.) allocated A.I. through the Cloud in T.F., and the arm chair devs essentially telling us that they dont know what they are talking about, they didnt need the Cloud or even lying when they have little to no knowledge of how the Cloud actually works. Ultimately Respawn is full of s***, and you guys?, you guys are the pros.....Pfft.

 

[Mcmasters]

get a damn grip. lets stop making impressions on games we haven't played.

Grip a bowl of dicks bruh...

Do I need to play the game to read how the developer utilized the Cloud for the A.I. found in Titanfall? No. I dont. Do some need a degree to understand that no matter how much you guys complain about the A.I. in Titanfall that it will never, NEVER be more than what it was intended? And if you would just accept that fact, you could probably quite stating the obvious (TF AI is dumb) and realize that they are SUPPOSED TO BE.

Not trying to be offensive man, but how can you expect anymore from the AI in Titanfall or even make parallels to other games like Halo, and still state you guys understand the purpose? Does not compute....

 

[Qbert]

AIN'T THAT A b****! That's an every day occurrence on these forums.

Right now, this very discussion is about how Respawn (a well known and respected developer with years of experience in developing games and computer A.I.) allocated A.I. through the Cloud in T.F., and the arm chair devs essentially telling us that they dont know what they are talking about, or even lying when they have little to no knowledge of how the Cloud actually works. Ultimately Respawn is full of s***, and you guys?, you guys are the pros.....Pfft.

No, the question isn't about how Respawn allocated AI through the cloud...but rather, what beneficial effect this allocation has had.

What have people here lied about? What we know is that the AI is bad.....a point YOU YOURSELF admitted, as being intentional.
You don't need to offset AI to the cloud if you're going to keep it dumb. In other words...TF does not need the cloud. How do we know this? Because there are other games that have more AI running, and smarter AI running that doesn't rely on the cloud.

You do know that you're being just as much of an arm chair dev claiming to know how awesome TF is because of the cloud....without really knowing whether or not it truly makes a difference in this particular game?

 

[Qbert]

Not trying to be offensive man, but how can you expect anymore from the AI in Titanfall or even make parallels to other games like Halo, and still state you guys understand the purpose? Does not compute....

You still miss the point of thread, and now you resort to constantly insulting others.

The thread is not whether or not TF has smart or dumb AI.....it's about the advancement of AI due to the cloud.

 

[Qbert]

Advancement.....

: the act of moving forward

: the act or result of making something better, more successful, etc.

: the act of being raised to a higher rank or position

Seeing as the AI in TF is dumber than most gaming AI, we cannot say that for that particular game, there was an act of making something better.

That doesn't mean that the cloud can't be used for better in other games, it just means that using TF as the poster boy for how awesome the cloud is doesn't help the cause.

 

[Mcmasters]

No, the question isn't about how Respawn allocated AI through the cloud...but rather, what beneficial effect this allocation has had.

What have people here lied about? What we know is that the AI is bad.....a point YOU YOURSELF admitted, as being intentional.
You don't need to offset AI to the cloud if you're going to keep it dumb. In other words...TF does not need the cloud. How do we know this? Because there are other games that have more AI running, and smarter AI running that doesn't rely on the cloud.

You do know that you're being just as much of an arm chair dev claiming to know how awesome TF is because of the cloud....without really knowing whether or not it truly makes a difference in this particular game?

Dude, I dont have to armchair dev on this topic because I can read and understand what I'm reading. Respawn created the A.I. in Titnafall for another purpose all together. Not for what its typically used for. You keep attempting to apply old school gaming with new school thinking. Just doesnt gel bruh...

You're still doing it, even in this very post. Your saying again, how Respawn didnt need the Cloud when you're having difficulty understanding what the Cloud is used for in regards to A.I. in Titanfall. This particular brand of A.I. was used entirely different than what we know from traditional games. Its the purpose your misunderstanding and over simplifying, as it were.

 

[DriedMangoes]

And Xbox One is not when offline?

No. Because once you get the achievement I believe it tries to sync up for the timestamp right away but if there's no internet, you'll just get a completed achievement but no timestamp. PSN you will always get the timestamp because it's saved right on the HDD then sync-ed up.

 

[DarkPassenger]

Warnings have been issued. Lets chill out a bit before someone here gets an aneurysm; you know who you are.

 

[Mcmasters]

You still miss the point of thread, and now you resort to constantly insulting others.

The thread is not whether or not TF has smart or dumb AI.....it's about the advancement of AI due to the cloud.

That is a huge advancement. It hasnt been done before on consoles, even if the results played more behind the scenes then at face value. Because it doesnt stand out like a sore thumb, doesnt mean it isnt being utilized. Besides, they could run the end credits on the Cloud and it would be a more advanced use of the Cloud than any other console is using this gen. Just sayin.... Cut em a break! Its the start of something big, thats only getting better!

 

[Mcmasters]

Warnings have been issued. Lets chill out a bit before someone here gets an aneurysm; you know who you are.

We straight D.P. just a difference in opinions.

 

[Qbert]

Dude, I dont have to armchair dev on this topic because I can read and understand what I'm reading. Respawn created the A.I. in Titnafall for another purpose all together. Not for what its typically used for. You keep attempting to apply old school gaming with new school thinking. Just doesnt gel bruh...

You are arm chairing, as you're still not getting the point behind the thread.
The thread is NOT about whether or not the AI is dumb, you yourself admitted it was dumb. We know it's dumb, and we KNOW the reason for it.

You're still doing it, even in this very post. Your saying again, how Respawn didnt need the Cloud when you're having difficulty understanding what the Cloud is used for in regards to A.I. in Titanfall. This particular brand of A.I. was used entirely different than what we know from traditional games. Its the purpose your misunderstanding and over simplifying, as it were.

Yes, it was used differently....in that not much thought was put into it to possessively keep it dumbed down for the casuals. How easy it for me to say that Respawn didn't need the cloud? Easy....because so many other games before has done much better AI. It doesn't take a degree in gaming science to see that.



Or, are you suggesting that it takes more processing power to make AI intentionally dumb?????????

 

[Qbert]

That is a huge advancement. It hasnt been done before on consoles, even if the results played more behind the scenes then at face value. Because it doesnt stand out like a sore thumb, doesnt mean it isnt being utilized. Besides, they could run the end credits on the Cloud and it would be a more advanced use of the Cloud than any other console is using this gen. Just sayin.... Cut em a break! Its the start of something big, thats only getting better!

It's an advancement in technology, but not AI itself. By the very definition of the word advancement, if you were to say that the AI was advanced DUE TO THE CLOUD, then logically, that would mean the AI should be....I don't know.....advanced.
But in this particular game, it's not advanced, it's actually a step backwards (yes, I know, intentionally). MEANING, it's not the best game to showcase said advancement.


By you claiming that TF could not be done without the cloud, means you're being just as much of an arm chair dev....just on the other side.

 

[Mcmasters]

You are arm chairing, as you're still not getting the point behind the thread.
The thread is NOT about whether or not the AI is dumb, you yourself admitted it was dumb. We know it's dumb, and we KNOW the reason for it.


Yes, it was used differently....in that not much thought was put into it to possessively keep it dumbed down for the casuals. How easy it for me to say that Respawn didn't need the cloud? Easy....because so many other games before has done much better AI. It doesn't take a degree in gaming science to see that.



Or, are you suggesting that it takes more processing power to make AI intentionally dumb?????????

If it was that easy to apply "dumb A.I." then why hasnt this been thought of before? I assume you believe dumb A.I. found in Titanfall could have been accomplished locally? Why now are we getting a title where the Cloud was essential towards its creation? Answer me this...

If Respawn didnt need the Cloud, why did they use it? Health purposes?

 

[Mcmasters]

It's an advancement in technology, but not AI itself. By the very definition of the word advancement, if you were to say that the AI was advanced DUE TO THE CLOUD, then logically, that would mean the AI should be....I don't know.....advanced.
But in this particular game, it's not advanced, it's actually a step backwards (yes, I know, intentionally). MEANING, it's not the best game to showcase said advancement.


By you claiming that TF could not be done without the cloud, means you're being just as much of an arm chair dev....just on the other side.

You forgot one important fact: it is an advancement in A.I and technology...ON CONSOLES AND CONSOLE GAMING. This is definitely the first gen where console gamers get to experience what Cloud tech can do in games on a home console. That is new. I'm not talking PC. Not at all. On consoles however, this is the first.