The End of the World: A Political Thread. A New Hope coming soon!

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JinCA said:
I've said before I don't believe Bernie would be able to pass M4A but I do think he'd negotiate in something much better than Biden would simply because his starting point in negotiations is further left. Biden is starting in the middle and if he gives in on anything we are basically stuck with what we have now. Too many centrists had plans like Biden's and didn't offer anything substantively better than we have now.

Biden was constantly touted as the most electable by nearly every talking head on TV, they don't want the changes people on the left want.
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I am not talking about Biden I am talking about every candidate. You can't say every candidate's health care plan was too close to what we have to be able to negotiate. You also aren't going to do a single meaningful thing without winning the Senate which is extremely difficult to do. Bernie makes those races harder because those key candidates can't back fully back Bernie's plans and win. There is a reason Steve Bullock waited until he knew Biden would win to get in the race.

I don't doubt that Bernie would compromise but the campaign staff will talk like any compromise is bad. That doesn't encourage voters who aren't fully in line with his views to support him. Unfortunately he filled his staff with loyalists who didn't push him to change his campaign. Keep in mind that this was the plan

He’s counting on winning Iowa and New Hampshire, where he was already surprisingly strong in 2016, and hoping that Cory Booker and Kamala Harris will split the black electorate in South Carolina and give him a path to slip through there, too. And then, Sanders aides believe, he’ll easily win enough delegates to hit him into contention at the convention. They say they don’t need him to get more than 30 percent to make that happen.
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If that was the best they could come up with he shouldn't have run
 
JinCA said:
The guy who made the remarks isn't a Bernie supporter, Krystal is but he's not he just doesn't trash him. They could have used clips from plenty of other shows that Biden has appeared on since his basement studio was "constructed" but they focused on the newest thing.

So are we back to blaming Bernie again because the center wants to put someone up who is friendly to corporate interests and doesn't want to make changes that will hurt the rich? The lack of enthusiasm for Biden is troubling and that's not Bernie's fault it's Biden's for not being able to inspire people. He brags about the black vote quite often but when you see black voters being interviewed most of them say they are voting for the person they think white people will accept which is just sad.
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Yeah, if they were only enthusiastic about Biden, he might not have those embarrassing wins in all these primaries.
 
JinCA said:
I've said before I don't believe Bernie would be able to pass M4A but I do think he'd negotiate in something much better than Biden would simply because his starting point in negotiations is further left. Biden is starting in the middle and if he gives in on anything we are basically stuck with what we have now. Too many centrists had plans like Biden's and didn't offer anything substantively better than we have now.
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Biden will take less than is otherwise possible because bipartisanship. Bernie will turn down better deals because it's not perfect.
 
hrudey said:
Biden will take less than is otherwise possible because bipartisanship. Bernie will turn down better deals because it's not perfect.
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Not true, people say that about him but he has compromised in the past pretty regularly, does he fight for what he believes in? sure but he will compromise at the end of the day.

The real problem is Biden already has very centrist views, even if he got everything he is proposing it wouldn't do much to make peoples lives better and the fact that his proposals are already right down the middle means he'll end up having to negotiate things away that mean something to him because Republicans won't just give him what he wants without a fight, say what you want about them but they do negotiate much better than people on our side.
 
JinCA said:
Not true, people say that about him but he has compromised in the past pretty regularly, does he fight for what he believes in? sure but he will compromise at the end of the day.

The real problem is Biden already has very centrist views, even if he got everything he is proposing it wouldn't do much to make peoples lives better and the fact that his proposals are already right down the middle means he'll end up having to negotiate things away that mean something to him because Republicans won't just give him what he wants without a fight, say what you want about them but they do negotiate much better than people on our side.
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He would be an extraordinarily great president if he got everything he is proposing. That will never happen but that thinking just shows how unrealistic expectations are for what a President can do to believe what he would want wouldn't be good enough. A Biden and Bernie presidency just wouldn't look that different and a Biden with the Senate Presidency would be substantially better than a Bernie without the Senate one.

There is a reason Bernie has to pretend he would get things done by people taking to the streets and demanding congress pass his policies. He can't even pretend it would happen in any real scenario. It really doesn't matter where you start at the negotiating table if the other side doesn't have to show up.
 
yankeessuck said:
He would be an extraordinarily great president if he got everything he is proposing. That will never happen but that thinking just shows how unrealistic expectations are for what a President can do to believe what he would want wouldn't be good enough. A Biden and Bernie presidency just wouldn't look that different and a Biden with the Senate Presidency would be substantially better than a Bernie without the Senate one.

There is a reason Bernie has to pretend he would get things done by people taking to the streets and demanding congress pass his policies. He can't even pretend it would happen in any real scenario. It really doesn't matter where you start at the negotiating table if the other side doesn't have to show up.
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Why is anyone assuming that Bernie wouldn't get the senate if he won the Presidency? yeah some talking heads on tv kept throwing that out there but you'd have to be an idiot to say "I like this guys ideas, let me make it harder for him to get any of them implemented" lol.

Bernie doesn't have to get everything he is proposing, the stuff he could do by executive action would get done but anything that had to go through the senate would need to be negotiated and it absolutely does matter what your starting positions are regardless if you are, the other side has to show up. If we have the house and white house a republican senate would get nothing they wanted for years if they didn't come to the table and their donors wouldn't stand for that. That being said I don't believe for a second that Bernie would make it any harder for Dems to take the Senate that Biden does.

BTW have you seen Biden's voter enthusiasm numbers? they are terrible and yeah it's still early but do you think he's got what it takes to build them up significantly? people aren't going to be voting for him they'll be voting against Trump and I don't think that's going to be enough especially when Trumps enthusiasm numbers now are more than double Biden's. If people start listening to how Trump F'd up the response to this pandemic maybe that'll turn the tide, the economy will still be a mess at that time too so hopefully that is blamed on Trump as well but Biden has let weeks go by where he basically hid from the public and wasn't showing any leadership or drive at all and that's not helping.
 
JinCA said:
BTW have you seen Biden's voter enthusiasm numbers? they are terrible and yeah it's still early but do you think he's got what it takes to build them up significantly? people aren't going to be voting for him they'll be voting against Trump and I don't think that's going to be enough especially when Trumps enthusiasm numbers now are more than double Biden's. If people start listening to how Trump F'd up the response to this pandemic maybe that'll turn the tide, the economy will still be a mess at that time too so hopefully that is blamed on Trump as well but Biden has let weeks go by where he basically hid from the public and wasn't showing any leadership or drive at all and that's not helping.
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How can Biden run against Trump when Bernie still won't admit defeat? Why doesn't Bernie do what's best (and inevitable) and drop out and clear the way?
 
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JinCA said:
Why is anyone assuming that Bernie wouldn't get the senate if he won the Presidency? yeah some talking heads on tv kept throwing that out there but you'd have to be an idiot to say "I like this guys ideas, let me make it harder for him to get any of them implemented" lol.

Bernie doesn't have to get everything he is proposing, the stuff he could do by executive action would get done but anything that had to go through the senate would need to be negotiated and it absolutely does matter what your starting positions are regardless if you are, the other side has to show up. If we have the house and white house a republican senate would get nothing they wanted for years if they didn't come to the table and their donors wouldn't stand for that. That being said I don't believe for a second that Bernie would make it any harder for Dems to take the Senate that Biden does.

BTW have you seen Biden's voter enthusiasm numbers? they are terrible and yeah it's still early but do you think he's got what it takes to build them up significantly? people aren't going to be voting for him they'll be voting against Trump and I don't think that's going to be enough especially when Trumps enthusiasm numbers now are more than double Biden's. If people start listening to how Trump F'd up the response to this pandemic maybe that'll turn the tide, the economy will still be a mess at that time too so hopefully that is blamed on Trump as well but Biden has let weeks go by where he basically hid from the public and wasn't showing any leadership or drive at all and that's not helping.
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I'm not assuming anything but it is something that is never considered. I will repeat what I said before Steven Bullock waited until Biden was going to win to get in the Senate race. He knew it would be harder with Bernie on the top of the ticket.

GOP would be fine with being obstructionists for 4 years and their donors wouldn't care. That is naive to think otherwise. This is a party that stole a Supreme Court seat and there were no consequences.

Yeah you posted them and I don't know why you keep bringing them up. Ignoring that its just one poll I don't know what anyone is supposed to do with that information. He blew everyone out. This isn't 2016 where we could complain that there were no other options. There were lots of options. Biden won. It wasn't some great injustice that Bernie and his enthusiasm didn't win. He didn't run the right campaign and have enough support. Its time to stop pretending Bernie would bring massive amounts of young people to the ballot box. We now know that isn't true.

He also hasn't been hiding for weeks. That is just Bernie Bro Twitter talking points. The media just isn't covering him which will be a problem eventually but right now I don't blame them and really it doesn't matter. The election will not be determined by anything Biden says in April.
 
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The thing about Republicans is that they know that their hold is tenuous at best, so they know they have to unite and not waver. Many of them were anti-Trump in 2016 (as was Fox), but once it was impossible for him not to get the nomination, they united behind him and were forever and always Trumpers (no matter how many internet clips there were to the contrary). I'm pretty sure when you added up all the support for the various "normal" candidates, they had a lot more votes, but it got split.

They didn't pout. They didn't complain. They didn't do a thing except fall in line without the slightest hesitation. Some of them are smart enough to know what Trump is.

That kind of blind loyalty makes me sick. I'm the kind of person who questions everything and I'm the last person to tell someone to fall in line... but this is the hurdle we're facing. If we screw around we could easily lose 2020. Heck, we could all unite and still lose.

Normally I would say "stick to your ideals!". Unfortunately, "normal" went out the window the minute Trump walked down that staircase.

This isn't politics anymore, it is a fight for the very soul of America. I don't say that as hyperbole. The country we grew up loving is in danger of being changed permanently. We may already be too late. Many are saying the guy isn't going to leave if he loses.
 
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Kerosene31 said:
How can Biden run against Trump when Bernie still won't admit defeat? Why doesn't Bernie do what's best (and inevitable) and drop out and clear the way?
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Biden doesn't even talk about Bernie, he's moved on to talking about Trump when he does decide to talk.
 
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/06/us/politics/coronavirus-trump-malaria-drug.html

Trump has a financial stake in the company that makes the Hydroxychloroquine drug.


iu
 
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Plainview said:
grisham out as press secretary after never giving a press briefing...
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What lefty spin. Why won't you give credit to dear leader comrade Trump for hiring a woman so perfect for the job that, this is true, she did not tell a single lie at any press briefing for her entire tenure.
 
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Thank goodness. He had to get out given all the delays to primaries. It would have been damaging enough to stay in under normal circumstances.
 
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So which mentally declining conservative shall the nation choose this season
 
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