DirectX 12 Coming to Xbox One thread, v. 2
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it hasn't had nearly the volume of naysayers... of course, none of the news that can be reported on DX12 can legitimately be SPUN to be negative. It is all good, even if it isn't as big of an improvement as some think it is, it will still benefit the X1 greatly.this thread needs some...
True but we're @ the point where we know of the BS hype of console manufacturers spinning in the past (not that MS has a history of absolutely ridiculous hype). These claims though are getting pretty big though so I would like some perspective from someone who has shown to be pessimistic if indeed the people employed by MS aren't complete morons like the naysayers have preached.
if it is a person who isn't just saying s*** just to say s***,.. .if they offer up real differential takes on things, then fine. My problem came from the formerly visible to me people who simply kept misinterpreting slides then hammering them home out of context.
I doubt they'll be implementing the full amount of that system, as really the duo that thought of that at ILM where some of the first to play around with fractal based procedural generation of special effects.
MS always loved Procedural Generation, as they already played around with it in their Encarta line of products and the XBox 360 also had some optimizations for it to counter against the lack of space on a DVD 9. So I can see why they would bet heavily on it as it is a huge performance gain if you can get it to work properly.
However I doubt MS would fully bet on that horse alone, it would turn the XBox one into a Saturn of this generation. A different rendering dogma that sets it apart from the rest if you wish to get the maximum out of it. (The Saturn could also do Triangles by making a square Quadrilateral of which two points where squashed together, but that would basically not be using it's Quadrilateral based system to it's fullest. A system in turn based on SEGA and Lockheads 3D hardware from their Arcade products). As I doubt many of the larger publishers will even bother with it if they can just gimp the resolution and framerate a bit and put it on the XbOne after making a PS4 version. The same happened with the Saturn usually.
So I doubt they wend that far, still considering MS her history in Fractal based systems and the current EsRAM setup, I can see why they would heavily lean on some of it.
They do seem to give demos about fully rendered planets, which was a thing they did in ILM's effects of Wrath of Khan. But I just get a bit of a Saturney feel from your quotes. I love the Saturn, don't get me wrong, but I know very well that most developers just made an easy port rather than learn an entirely different system.
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It's not for a lack of trying though
truer words have never been spoken. the site, to remain unnamed, is far worse than here... but my goodness, the ability for people to turn roses into stinkweed with little to no reason to, is amazing.
http://channel9.msdn.com/Events/Build/2014/3-564
Direct3D 12 API Preview
Come learn how future changes to Direct3D will enable next generation games to run faster than ever before! In this session we will discuss future improvements in Direct3D that will allow developers an unprecedented level of hardware control and reduced CPU rendering overhead across a broad ecosystem of hardware. If you use cutting-edge 3D graphics in your games, middleware, or engines and want to efficiently build rich and immersive visuals, you don't want to miss this talk.
For more information, check out these courses on Microsoft Virtual Academy:
this is at the build today
Microsoft's Build Conference
http://www.buildwindows.com/
Direct3D 12 API Preview
Come learn how future changes to Direct3D will enable next generation games to run faster than ever before! In this session we will discuss future improvements in Direct3D that will allow developers an unprecedented level of hardware control and reduced CPU rendering overhead across a broad ecosystem of hardware. If you use cutting-edge 3D graphics in your games, middleware, or engines and want to efficiently build rich and immersive visuals, you don't want to miss this talk.
For more information, check out these courses on Microsoft Virtual Academy:
this is at the build today
Microsoft's Build Conference
http://www.buildwindows.com/
Well, lets look at this logically. The only differences between one console version of a game and the XBO is resolution and frame rate (petty, I know but hear me out....) So, clearly the upgrade will address those two issues if anything--and if nothing else. Everything else is the same. So, I mean, what else does it need to do? If games on XBO look better due to other features afforded by Dx12, then its a bonus. If not, Im sure more stability will be in the cards.
According to the sniper devs the tools are already in place to make 1080p easier to achieve, Dx12 is just pure bonus.
Oh, forgot about that. You're right. DX12 is just a bonus all together then.
Also Microsoft is opening up a bit more percentage from XBO hardware to give to devs to allocate towards other issues like resolutions and frame rates. Everything should be nice and tidy before too long.
EDIT: Dayum! There's a lot of stuff coming towards the XBO, already! Thats pretty cool!
isnt wolfinstein at 1080p and 60fps on xbox one as well?Oh, forgot about that. You're right. DX12 is just a bonus all together then.
Also Microsoft is opening up a bit more percentage from XBO hardware to give to devs to allocate towards other issues like resolutions and frame rates. Everything should be nice and tidy before too long.
EDIT: Dayum! There's a lot of stuff coming towards the XBO, already! Thats pretty cool!
yes, but you will hear it all over the net "that game doesn't push the systems, so it is no wonder it is 1080p/60fps on both."
So from 10:30 to 11:30, Build will expand on the following according to their website. Friday April 4
"Understanding the Xbox One Game Platform Built on Windows 10:30AM to 11:30AM This session goes into the architecture of Xbox One, explains the different operating system(s) and their relation to Windows 8 (hint: it’s running Windows 8!), and outlines strategies for developers who want to take advantage of hardcore to-the-metal features of DirectX, whether running on Xbox One or Windows."
"Understanding the Xbox One Game Platform Built on Windows 10:30AM to 11:30AM This session goes into the architecture of Xbox One, explains the different operating system(s) and their relation to Windows 8 (hint: it’s running Windows 8!), and outlines strategies for developers who want to take advantage of hardcore to-the-metal features of DirectX, whether running on Xbox One or Windows."
I love when you post because you're a little newshound. It's like we never get to miss anything. I love it.
Yap, UVG being a more compact board does help too - thank's starlight777 for your great support!
....if Wolfenstein is 1080p/60fps on both what does that say about COD: Ghosts??...LOL.
http://www.neowin.net/news/directx-12-a-game-changer-for-xbox-one
DirectX 12: A game changer for Xbox One
This week at Build, Microsoft unveiled their new graphics stack, DirectX 12, which was demonstrated to more than double performance on existing hardware and work on all Microsoft platforms.
Earlier this year, AMD's new Mantle platform demonstrated what was possible if the graphics stack could effectively utilize all the cores on modern CPUs. The result was a massive boost in performance in Mantle enabled games with very little developer effort as shown by Oxide Games and Battlefield 4. The challenge for AMD is that Mantle is currently PC only and restricted to recent AMD video cards. If only there was a graphics stack that supported multi-core processing that worked on all video cards...
Xbox One gets a major upgrade
Meanwhile, Microsoft's Xbox One has been well received but has been criticized for being measurably behind Sony's Playstation 4 in terms of game performance. Microsoft has responded with DirectX 12. With relatively little effort by developers, upcoming Xbox One games, PC Games and Windows Phone games will see a doubling in graphics performance.
Suddenly, that Xbox One game that struggled at 720p will be able to reach fantastic performance at 1080p. For developers, this is a game changer.
The Secret Sauce
Microsoft was able to achieve the performance breakthroughs through two major changes to DirectX 12:
1.Bundles
2.Parallel rendering
Most of the performance gain is a result of DirectX 12 making full use of multiple CPU cores. For example, on DirectX 11 a typical game would perform like this:
http://draginol.stardock.net/images2014/AdventuresinDirectX12_10589/image_6.jpg
As you can see, thread 0 (the starting thread for the game) is doing most of the work. In fact, DirectX 11 is barely being utilized by the other threads.
But on DirectX 12, the situation changes dramatically:
http://draginol.stardock.net/images2014/AdventuresinDirectX12_10589/image_7.jpg
Not only is DirectX 12 more efficient in its own right but the interaction with the GPU is evenly spread between each CPU core.
http://draginol.stardock.net/images2014/AdventuresinDirectX12_10589/image_2.jpg
The results are spectacular. Not just in theory but in practice (full disclosure: I am involved with the Star Swarm demo which makes use of this kind of technology.) While each generation of video card struggles to gain substantial performance over the previous generation, here, the same hardware will suddenly see a doubling of performance.
XBox One is the biggest beneficiary; it effectively gives every Xbox One owner a new GPU that is twice as fast as the old one.
No free lunch
There is a downside for all this power. DirectX 12 games will be the first games to fully utilize the powerful graphics cards gamers have been buying for the past few years. DirectX 12 won't require a new video card for GPUs that already support DirectX 11. As a result, that GPU will be getting pushed twice as hard as it previously was which means more heat on cards that might have only barely been cool enough when they were only being commanded by a single CPU core. We expect to see many marginal video cards setup to experience over heating issues as DirectX 12 suddenly pushes these cards beyond what the IHV had anticipated.
In addition, while DirectX 11 was a relatively plug and play experience for developers, DirectX 12 puts a much greater emphasis on developer control. Developers can and are expected to manage conflicts and low level pipelining to make the most of the new platform. This is a good thing for experienced graphics developers but will put less experienced developers at a disadvantage.
DirectX Unleashed
Not content to merely double performance, Microsoft also announced that they were going to make DirectX 12 available on Xbox One, Windows Phone and Windows PC. This means a single graphics API for multiple platforms. In addition, Microsoft indicated that they were making DirectX 12 their go-to solution for all graphics intensive tasks -- not just games.
Microsoft hasn't provided a release date for DirectX 12 but we expect to hear more at E3 this Spring.
DirectX 12: A game changer for Xbox One
This week at Build, Microsoft unveiled their new graphics stack, DirectX 12, which was demonstrated to more than double performance on existing hardware and work on all Microsoft platforms.
Earlier this year, AMD's new Mantle platform demonstrated what was possible if the graphics stack could effectively utilize all the cores on modern CPUs. The result was a massive boost in performance in Mantle enabled games with very little developer effort as shown by Oxide Games and Battlefield 4. The challenge for AMD is that Mantle is currently PC only and restricted to recent AMD video cards. If only there was a graphics stack that supported multi-core processing that worked on all video cards...
Xbox One gets a major upgrade
Meanwhile, Microsoft's Xbox One has been well received but has been criticized for being measurably behind Sony's Playstation 4 in terms of game performance. Microsoft has responded with DirectX 12. With relatively little effort by developers, upcoming Xbox One games, PC Games and Windows Phone games will see a doubling in graphics performance.
Suddenly, that Xbox One game that struggled at 720p will be able to reach fantastic performance at 1080p. For developers, this is a game changer.
The Secret Sauce
Microsoft was able to achieve the performance breakthroughs through two major changes to DirectX 12:
1.Bundles
2.Parallel rendering
Most of the performance gain is a result of DirectX 12 making full use of multiple CPU cores. For example, on DirectX 11 a typical game would perform like this:
http://draginol.stardock.net/images2014/AdventuresinDirectX12_10589/image_6.jpg
As you can see, thread 0 (the starting thread for the game) is doing most of the work. In fact, DirectX 11 is barely being utilized by the other threads.
But on DirectX 12, the situation changes dramatically:
http://draginol.stardock.net/images2014/AdventuresinDirectX12_10589/image_7.jpg
Not only is DirectX 12 more efficient in its own right but the interaction with the GPU is evenly spread between each CPU core.
http://draginol.stardock.net/images2014/AdventuresinDirectX12_10589/image_2.jpg
The results are spectacular. Not just in theory but in practice (full disclosure: I am involved with the Star Swarm demo which makes use of this kind of technology.) While each generation of video card struggles to gain substantial performance over the previous generation, here, the same hardware will suddenly see a doubling of performance.
XBox One is the biggest beneficiary; it effectively gives every Xbox One owner a new GPU that is twice as fast as the old one.
No free lunch
There is a downside for all this power. DirectX 12 games will be the first games to fully utilize the powerful graphics cards gamers have been buying for the past few years. DirectX 12 won't require a new video card for GPUs that already support DirectX 11. As a result, that GPU will be getting pushed twice as hard as it previously was which means more heat on cards that might have only barely been cool enough when they were only being commanded by a single CPU core. We expect to see many marginal video cards setup to experience over heating issues as DirectX 12 suddenly pushes these cards beyond what the IHV had anticipated.
In addition, while DirectX 11 was a relatively plug and play experience for developers, DirectX 12 puts a much greater emphasis on developer control. Developers can and are expected to manage conflicts and low level pipelining to make the most of the new platform. This is a good thing for experienced graphics developers but will put less experienced developers at a disadvantage.
DirectX Unleashed
Not content to merely double performance, Microsoft also announced that they were going to make DirectX 12 available on Xbox One, Windows Phone and Windows PC. This means a single graphics API for multiple platforms. In addition, Microsoft indicated that they were making DirectX 12 their go-to solution for all graphics intensive tasks -- not just games.
Microsoft hasn't provided a release date for DirectX 12 but we expect to hear more at E3 this Spring.
Well see and I think there is some truth to that. That starts with Phil Spencer now know what he need to do because he have been diving deep with in the forums talking with gamers to get feed backs.
He is going to rock the E3 conference.
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