Gun regulation thread w. poll.

[horns]

Wow. That's kind of crazy.
Thanks for detailed reply.

Hasn't there been studies on the connection to these types of events and anti-depression drugs?

Nope. There have been zero federal studies on those issues in the last 20 years. If firearms were part of the research question, its funding is blocked.

There are private organizations and universities that do fund studies. However, the scale is typically smaller than government studies and the results are dismissed by pro-gun organizations. NRA, GoA, NSSF, and other pro-gun orgs are very effective at disseminating information, controlling the message, and condemning research that does not support results they favor.

Just Google, "harvard gun study" to get an example at how effective pro-gun is at controlling information. There's one Harvard study that supports pro-gun, one. On the other hand, there are dozens and dozens and dozens of Harvard studies saying gun control is good. Yet, that one Harvard study that is pro-gun gets a lot more attention than the multiple Harvard studies saying otherwise. You'll have to search a little more to find them. Why? Pro-gun is very good at controlling the narrative. They have hundreds of web sites dedicated to gun news, blogs, forums, and other social media sites doing their bidding.

Think of it like global warming science. For every one study saying global warming isn't occurring there are fifty studies saying global warming is occurring.

 

[morfeeis]

thats good. i guess it depends on how strict these checks are, and with the effects we see in the america one may assume they are not strict enough, right?

The checks are fine, the problem is you can't remove someone's rights until they have done something that demonstrates their lack of sanity. by the time they commit such an act it may be too late

i thought it was normal for people to walk into a shop and leave with their gun right then and there. is that not true?

It can and is the case for most firearms, i bought an NFA item, these items take longer.

also im genuinely curious, what do you need four guns for, are they all for protection?

lol i have way more than that, they are just fun to shoot, fun to work on and they hold their value very VERY WELL. if you haven't had the chance next time you are in the states visit a gun range, tell them you've never shot before and would like an intro course, one magazine fired and you'll be hooked, they are a "blast". Add to that that i am a budding hunter, but overall it's because guns are fun as crap...

true, and to me that just means checks should be more relevant and strigent - if theyre passing these checks, then make the checks stricter. but i understand that this is a ddifciult thing to judge, which is also why there needs to be proactive solutions like counselling or support or employment help, for example, instead of only "negative" solutions such as just denying people or imposing more laws and thats all. like, you cant just tell a child to not do x, you need to also help that child learn y

I understand you point, but being a gun lover, a student of psychology and having been and lived around those with mental illness i can tell you that the only options that will work is an all out firearm ban. people can go from sane to insane within a matter of months, this would leave only semi annual psychological testing for all 80 million firearm owners in the country, this would be a nightmare and would face serious court battles.

I know i'm the gun guy, but look i just haven't heard a option short of an all out ban that will help to reduce homicide, not gun homicide, but true homicide numbers.

 

[horns]

thats good. i guess it depends on how strict these checks are, and with the effects we see in the america one may assume they are not strict enough, right?

Correct. The background check system unfortunately allows people to purchase guns who should not be allowed to. States are not required to submit the information to the NICS system that would deny them from purchasing guns. Money earmarked for states to use for reporting better data to NICS is not given to them despite promises that it would. The background check system has been underfunded for years. More than 90% of the background checks are instant pass/fail results, but let's say your background check took more than 3 days for further review, you automatically pass regardless if you shouldn't have. You can get a gun if you were arrested and not convicted for offenses including trafficking in cocaine, assault and battery, assault and battery on a police officer, resisting arrest, and destruction of property. If you're bats*** crazy or suicidal or violent or a bad person or incapable of caring for yourself and your friends and family all believe you shouldn't have a gun, you can still get a gun. Even if you fail a background check, you can buy a gun online, through friend/family, or at a gun show without a background check because in most of the country background checks are not required for private sales. The only study of its kind says 40% of sales are private sales. 'Merica.

The background check system needs to be made more strict. The federal government should be researching how to make background checks more effective. And what additional people should be excluded based on scientific research.

Spoiler

That's why a number of organizations are dedicated to preventing research.

 

[morfeeis]

I

However, I honestly believe that by imposing firearm legislation like that in the UK you would see a huge decrease in gun crime, but you have your rights, and guns are a way of life for a lot of US citizens. Like literally embedded in your society. Those pro-gunners will always argue that tougher legislation won't stop gun crimes because the majority of such crimes are committed with illegal weapons, and I'm sure they're right. The only answer I see is to massively reduce the numbers of guns (hence my opening sentence) which would eventually lead to a cultural shift away from them. But again, some people will want that and others won't.

That's my view as an outsider looking in anyway.

But again trhe point is that even after the UK style firearms restrictions "gun violence" did not see a dramatic downward trend, as a matter of fact for years after the gun ban homicide went up. you guys then saw a downward trend that was in line with global statistics. The AU saw the same effects. The UK also has a much higher violent crime rate per capita.

But i do agree with you that it is a serious social problem, i think one of the main fixed would be to follow the same guidelines that are followed for why newspaper no longer publish suicides in the papers (look it up it's a great read).

 

[BraddersTheDog]

But again trhe point is that even after the UK style firearms restrictions "gun violence" did not see a dramatic downward trend, as a matter of fact for years after the gun ban homicide went up. you guys then saw a downward trend that was in line with global statistics. The AU saw the same effects. The UK also has a much higher violent crime rate per capita.

But i do agree with you that it is a serious social problem, i think one of the main fixed would be to follow the same guidelines that are followed for why newspaper no longer publish suicides in the papers (look it up it's a great read).

The definition of violent crime in this country is ridiculous. You could say boo to someone and if they flinched (and reported it) it would be defined as violent crime. I sh*t you not. But that's aside from the point. All I know is guns here are pretty rare (aside from shotguns and air rifles) and gun crime is minimal.

I'm not actually against guns in the US. I think it's an interesting debate.

 

[horns]

The UK does not have more violent crime per capita than the US. When you make an apples to apple comparison both countries are about the same, except the US has a murder rate almost 5 times higher.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...-media-post-says-uk-has-far-higher-violent-c/

 

[Oblong]

I heard that Janie's got a gun. Her whole world's come undone from lookin' straight at the sun. What did her daddy do? What did he put you through? They said when Janie was arrested they found him underneath a train but man, he had it comin' now that Janie's got a gun, she ain't never gonna be the same.

 

[morfeeis]

The definition of violent crime in this country is ridiculous. You could say boo to someone and if they flinched (and reported it) it would be defined as violent crime. I sh*t you not. But that's aside from the point. All I know is guns here are pretty rare (aside from shotguns and air rifles) and gun crime is minimal.

I'm not actually against guns in the US. I think it's an interesting debate.

BOOOO!!! add another one to the list.

The UK has never really had a serious homicide problem, while people do still have access to firearm you freaks use knives for some odd reason. Even before the firearm ban you guys just are more up close and personal and passionate about off fruckers

• The most common method of killing continued to be by knife or other sharp instrument. In 2013/14, there were 202 victims killed in this way, accounting for over 1 in 3 (38%) homicides.
  
  
• In 2013/14, 29 homicide victims (6% of the total) were killed by shooting, the same as in 2012/13 and the lowest number since 1980 (19 homicides).
  

http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/crime...d-sexual-offences--2013-14/rpt-chapter-2.html

I'm always open to the debate, i find it interesting how many people in my own country will pine for more laws when they don't even know about the laws already in place. I think gun control, taxes and gender/race issues are a great litmus test to see how people think....

 

[Kassen]

I don't get the ridiculous claim that more guns in civilian hands is a good thing. The majority of Americans are too stupid to follow gun safety protocols. It's how we end up with more dead teenagers on the sidewalks because some 300 pounds moron wants to play cop and stalk young boys at night like a creepy.

 

[morfeeis]

I don't get the ridiculous claim that more guns in civilian hands is a good thing. The majority of Americans are too stupid to follow gun safety protocols. It's how we end up with more dead teenagers on the sidewalks because some 300 pounds moron wants to play cop and stalk young boys at night like a creepy.

People are stupid, but he was stupid had a small dick and couldn't fight. and that wasn't gun safety that was cousins dating cousins and the benefits of having a dad in the justice branch.

PS you know cops are civilians too right? or were you suggesting that only those
in the armed forces should have firearms?

 

[Kassen]

People are stupid, but he was stupid had a small dick and couldn't fight. and that wasn't gun safety that was cousins dating cousins and the benefits of having a dad in the justice branch.

PS you know cops are civilians too right? or were you suggesting that only those
in the armed forces should have firearms?

Just to say this, the man could fight. He only turned the other cheek because he loved the idea of getting to legally kill a teenage boy.

 

[horns]

BOOOO!!! add another one to the list.

The UK has never really had a serious homicide problem, while people do still have access to firearm you freaks use knives for some odd reason. Even before the firearm ban you guys just are more up close and personal and passionate about off fruckers

• The most common method of killing continued to be by knife or other sharp instrument. In 2013/14, there were 202 victims killed in this way, accounting for over 1 in 3 (38%) homicides.
  
  
• In 2013/14, 29 homicide victims (6% of the total) were killed by shooting, the same as in 2012/13 and the lowest number since 1980 (19 homicides).

http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/crime...d-sexual-offences--2013-14/rpt-chapter-2.html

Too bad you're still more likely to be killed with a knife in the US than in the UK . In the US there were 1,567 homicides with knives or cutting instruments in 2014.

• UK murder rate with knives per 100k (202 homicides of 64.1m pop) = 0.315
• US murder rate with knives per 100k (1,567 homicides of 318.9m pop) = 0.491

Guns give us that special ability to reach almost 5 times the murder rate of the UK.

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/u...able_8_murder_victims_by_weapon_2010-2014.xls

 

[Entreri804]

Too bad you're still more likely to be killed with a knife in the US than in the UK . In the US there were 1,567 homicides with knives or cutting instruments in 2014.

• UK murder rate with knives per 100k (202 homicides of 64.1m pop) = 0.315
• US murder rate with knives per 100k (1,567 homicides of 318.9m pop) = 0.491

Guns give us that special ability to reach almost 5 times the murder rate of the UK.

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/u...able_8_murder_victims_by_weapon_2010-2014.xls

You do realize the United States has five times the the total population of the United Kingdom right?

 

[horns]

Exactly why I normalized the data to be the number of homicides with knives per 100k.

 

[morfeeis]

Just to say this, the man could fight. He only turned the other cheek because he loved the idea of getting to legally kill a teenage boy.

While i know he isn't the type of person i would want to spend five minutes in a room with, i wouldn't go as far to think he is so evil that he allowed himself to get beat up just to shoot someone. I also don't think he is anywhere close to being smart enough to plan that through. He was and is a dumbs***, he's one of those people that will end up in trouble no matter what one day, plus being a woman beater puts him in a special catogoray of s*** heads to me. I stopped buying Keltec's because of that guy and their support for him and i loved keltecs.

 

[horns]

He was a "good guy" with a gun only the day before.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/22/us/child-road-rage-killing/index.html

 

[aceattorney]

Just a random thought: Americans seem to worship fictional villains. Villains do evil stuff. Some of those Americans justify their actions based on their villain-worship.