It's a clothes iron. If people want to use it to cook a grilled cheese sandwich, it's up to them.
The Xbox Onesie
- Thread starter TAVIS206
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It's a clothes iron. If people want to use it to cook a grilled cheese sandwich, it's up to them.
I don't disagree, perhaps I interpreted your post wrong. I get all that, I meant that it's on the dev to leverage their assets. Unless the engine is just a mess at a base level (which is what the dev is responsible for working within and adapting), it's on the dev to reach 60fps IF that's the goal, by trimming effect, physics, etc.
If people want uglier, smoother games, they have to support that. Has nothing to do with the Hardware manufacturers. Now if one stipulates 4k/60 fps on Ultra, then that's a different argument.
Yep that's pretty much exactly my point. But I think Flynn was being a bit disingenuous saying it will run 60fps 4K native because it could do that with Pacman. I'm paraphrasing here but that's what he was getting at.
All I went from this is a solid engine where devs won't have to be cutting corners to get a technically good game.
I think Flynn is saying that if a XOne game is 1080p/60fps, the Scorps will do 4k/60 at those settings. 1080/30 would be 4k/30 at the least. I expect lots of dynamic resolutions though. Good news is you might bottom out at 1440, and that would be just fine, imo.
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Words matter. Phrasing matters. We need to be specific, and you weren't being specific.
60fps in console gaming has been achievable for decades. It's not difficult to make a 60fps game on any caonsole today.
4K/30fps wasn't achievable until this generation of consoles, and 4K+60fps isn't possible without HDMI 2.0+ (X1 and PS4 have only HDMI 1.4, which maxes out at 4K/30fps).
PS4 Pro and Scorpio can both easily output native 4K games which run at 60fps. This is trivial.
None of the above is false, or disengenuois. It's just facts.
...but the important addition to this post is that, yes, the tools and engines used to build games impacts how good those games can look at various resolutions and frame rates. Art style, sophistication, and complexity impacts how good games can look at various resolutions and frame rates.
But when comments like "all games should be 4K and 60fps, if a console is powerful enough/gaming Dev environment is good enough" pop up, it really just exposes the ignorance and/or the naivety of the person saying/typing it. Comments like that are subjective at best, and utterly false at worst.
You're funny. Stop being so funny.
Go back and read my post. I never once said 'all games...'
The need for higher resolution has been hitting me a bit more strongly recently. As I play Final Fantasy XV on Xbone, it says it's an HDR game, but the blurry IQ makes it pointless. There is no comparison between that and FH3. I imagine FF XV would look incredible at higher resolutions. The lighting model is amazing, but hurt by the poor IQ and resulting lower Color gamut. Hopefully we can get better textures too, as these- while the content of the textures is good- are really low res. Bring on Scorpio!
That said, FF XV is really awesome for me so far! Cheesy voice acting is cheesy, but It's not a deal breaker. Very pleasantly surprised by the game. Love the combat! It's so different
I take back my comment about wasted HDR. It certainly doesn't compare to the Forza implementation, but I turned it off on my tv to see it without, and the color banding was extremely noticeable.
Sure, and that's the whole point. That's where they need to be clear with their message. Might as well come out and say it's a beefed up Xbox One. Letting people think they're getting a next gen console and charging them $500 or more for it would be a disaster. Oh my bad, here's the console you wanted at launch, and you have to pay full price for it.
I stand by the notion that in 1-2 years Scorpio will be treated as a new console with exclusive games. Not sure why they're not just going next gen to begin with. Xbox fans are used to a 4 year life cycle anyway. I doubt anyone would be upset if we got exclusive games that push Scorpio to the limit. What good is 6tflops if you're only using 3tflops. If it's $400 and marketed as just a slight upgrade like the PS4 Pro then they're good.
You're hard work man. You replied to me so the assumption is you are replying about me. Internet rule #1.
He has done that.
People are running away with what he said. It's like the fools talking about 4k Ultra settings at 60fps. Phil has already said it's not new generation hardware, that it's xbox One family, and that the 4k res would be at Xbox One spec. Obviously there will be more than res bumps- there is much more jump than Pro, and it has games running higher spec. It doesn't matter what he says when people obviously only hear half of what he says.
Beyond that, I'd hold off on they rhetoric about messaging until they actually start showing it off.
Flynn is right on this one. Yes he did reply to you directly but his post went away from you when he quoted "some people say all games should be 4K". Unless you were someone who was saying that, the post doesn't read like he was implying you specifically at all in that portion of his post.
I don't think anyone is saying Scorpio won't be able to run a game at 4K 60fps with crap physics and lighting and low textures.
In fact, what you're saying is already presumed. OF COURSE any game can be run at high res with high fps if you decrease other graphical settings. That's obviously not what we're talking about.
It's actually quite silly of you to carry on and on about something that we're not discussing at all.
The issue is whether Scorpio can run a game at 4K 60fps WITH VERY HIGH GRAPHICAL SETTINGS. The words I capitalized is something we all presumed. Well, all of us presumed it, except for you, I guess.
What PS4 Pro games are native 4K and 60FPS? All the 60FPS games I have seen run a dynmaic resolution in order to maintain the frame rate, or are 1800P upscaled to 4K.
I still haven't seen the game on Xbox One that couldn't be reasonably scaled to the 360...and the 360 is more than decade old hardware. Rise of the Tomb Raider, Forza Horizon 2 and Titanfall were good examples.
We've reached diminishing returns. Even if developers had unlimited power to work with, they don't have unlimited budgets to add the details that don't greatly impact perception or sales.
Scorpio is for gamers that want better frame rates and resolution on the same games they're already playing. When MS sells 4K/60 fps, that's assuming everything else in the current Xbox One game stays the same. Essentially it's for gamers looking for a high end PC upscale in a console ecosystem. It's also to kill Sony's momentum from resolutiongate. Even if it doesn't sell much, squashing the "everything runs better on PlayStation" talking point is important. The PS4/Xbox One base of gamers is too large to ignore anytime soon. MS really doesn't care if you buy games on Scorpio, Xbox One or Windows PC. They aren't releasing Scorpio because they want to expand their hardware sales or produce new game engines that only work on that platform. Scorpio is another consumer platform for gamers to buy stuff from MS and to potentially win back gamers who buy all multiplats through Sony due to performance.
There will not be Scorpio exclusives until Xbox One stops selling and the majority of gamers bail on that platform.
We've reached diminishing returns. Even if developers had unlimited power to work with, they don't have unlimited budgets to add the details that don't greatly impact perception or sales.
Scorpio is for gamers that want better frame rates and resolution on the same games they're already playing. When MS sells 4K/60 fps, that's assuming everything else in the current Xbox One game stays the same. Essentially it's for gamers looking for a high end PC upscale in a console ecosystem. It's also to kill Sony's momentum from resolutiongate. Even if it doesn't sell much, squashing the "everything runs better on PlayStation" talking point is important. The PS4/Xbox One base of gamers is too large to ignore anytime soon. MS really doesn't care if you buy games on Scorpio, Xbox One or Windows PC. They aren't releasing Scorpio because they want to expand their hardware sales or produce new game engines that only work on that platform. Scorpio is another consumer platform for gamers to buy stuff from MS and to potentially win back gamers who buy all multiplats through Sony due to performance.
There will not be Scorpio exclusives until Xbox One stops selling and the majority of gamers bail on that platform.
Isn't 4K a high graphical setting of itself? Sounds redundant what you are asking for.
I suppose what you are meaning is can a game do 4K + 60fps + detailed textures/anti-aliasing/complex lighting/depth of view/anisotropic filtering/fill in other high graphic tech terms. And while you are at it may as well include complex AI, tons of NPC's, online multiplayer, 3D sound, and everything else you will find in a top title. Basically you want to know that games like Halo/Forza/AssCreed/GTA/etc can do it all on Scorpio as opposed to games like Hexic/PacMan/Peggle which we all know should achieve these high standards in all areas.
Pretty sure Flynn fully explained that it is possible with trade-offs chosen by the devs. Seems if 1st party titles will achieve then there should be no reason 3rd party can't also achieve if they choose. But for multi-plats we will have devs go for parity with other lesser consoles like PS4 and even X1 Vanilla since we aren't actually fully moving to a new gen.
So the next Assassins Creed, for example, I am sure Ubisoft is working on something that will play on any X1, X1 slim, X1 S, Scorpio, PS4, PS4 slim, PS4 Pro. The Scorpio version will surely have a few extra bells and whistles but if the base version runs 1080p 30fps then I would doubt you are going to see a 4K 60fps ability for just 1 version. But then again maybe some devs will go the route of Crystal Dynamics RotTR and give Scorpio users options in the settings to turn up fps with graphics allowances. I would suspect options like that will be more common a few years into Scorpio's life than right from the get-go.
Absolutely.
And this proves my point. I think there is too much presumed in the writings on these forums. If you want to have a meaningful discussion, get specific. Words and phrasing matter. Saying something silly like, "Xbox can't do 60fps" is literally false, so if you want or expect me to make presumptions which would make a false statement correct, then you're asking for too much. We can't have meaningful conversations when we're layering in so much presumption.
So thank you for finally saying what I've been waiting for others to say.
Alright, so now I can deal with your more specific comment:
[Can Scorpio run games at] "4K 60fps WITH VERY HIGH GRAPHICAL SETTINGS"
Get more specific. Are you referring to a specific game? Some games that are on PC today that have come out in the last few years will be able to run at native 4K with what would be pretty close to nearly identical to PC at 4K, 60fps, with high settings. Other PC games which even a 1080 paired with 32gigs of fast ram and an overclocked 6700k CPU can't run at 4K/60fps w/ VERY HIGH GRAPHICAL SETTINGS obviously won't be able to run on Scorpio at 4K/60fps w/ VERY HIGH GRAPHICAL SETTINGS.
So the answer to your question is litterally both yes, and no.
This is why getting specific matters.
One good way of thinking about it is to consider how the PS4 pro compares to a super high end PC running a game at 4K/60 FPS, VERY HIGH GRAPHICAL SETTINGS. Look at that delta. Now consider that the Scorpio is neary 50% more powerful, and what you'll get is something that lands squarely between the two; better than PS4 Pro, but obviously not identical to the PC, coming out with some sacrifices.
Furthermore, we should expect that X1 Scorpio games will have superior textures to PS4 pro games, given the vastly superior (much faster) and higher quantity ram it will have over the pro. Pro games can't increase texture resolution over the PS4 vanilla, but Scorpio can.
See how much better conversations are when people get specific, and stop making so many presumptions?
YAY!!! Someone finally NOT speaking in generalities which make conversations meaningless! WOOT!
Not really, and neither do you.
You need to spend more time on your posts. Currently, many of your posts are litterally false and incorrect, due to so many built in/baked "PRESUMPTIONS".
Get specific, or expect more pounding on your incorrect, and brief posts. If you want to see who gets it, look to Oblong's post above.
Will Scorpio be able to run Fallout 4 at max settings, 4k 60fps?
The only person who I get a pounding from is my wife
You're hysterical man, seriously. You go on about presumptions and you jump on my comments and then just go do just that?
Yes...or no. All depends on the developer.
Technically they could, but maybe not max max settings.
However, didn't Microsoft say that FPS would be the same across all members of the X1 family? I recall them saying that, but can't remember if that was just multiplayer games or all games.
Phil has specifically stated that it would be in relation to Xbox One asset settings. Not PC ultra. That's why Flynn isn't assuming your assertion. Whether or not it will do more than that is up for debate. There is no mis-message. Forumites are saying this extra stuff.
By "MAX SETTINGS", I assume you mean today's max PC settings.
The quick answer is that if a relatively straightforward Scorpio support patch were to be built, NO, a Scorpio version would not likely be native/true 4K/60fps with max PC settings.
What you could expect from a Scorpio version is:
Roughly 4x the resultion of the Xbox One counterpart, the same target frame rate (likely with a more consistent rate), with improved texture quality, and other possible minor upgrades in rendering effects quality.
Fallout 4's target frame rate is 30fps on consoles, so you shouldn't expect 60fps on Scorpio. F4's native resolution on X1 is 1080p, so an immediate 4x the res on Scorpio would be easily achievable, and you'd get true/native 4K. Since DF says the texture resolution on consoles seems to be the same as PC at max settings, you wouldn't see any magical improvements in textures, but that wouldn't be because Scorpio isn't capable of improving the textures, it's because higher resolution textures may not exist, and it would take time (read: money) to re-author assets for Scorpio that would surpass EXISTING "max setting" PC textures.
With not a lot of effort, Scorpio could probably do 4K, 30fps, with max or closer-to-max-of-PC-than-PS4 graphical settings... but I think it would be a huge stretch to think it could get anywhere near 4K/60 w/PC MAX. That would require closer to 8x the X1's perf, and Scorpio is closer to 4.5x of the X1. None of this is strictly linear, but it gives you the ballpark.
EDIT: If they wanted 60fps, they could probably do FAUXK (checkerboard), and run at twice the frame rate... but they might have CPU limitations which keep them from hitting 60fps, which would need to be factored into the equation... and this goes back to good ol' prioritizations, design targets, and decisions, decisions, decisions...
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For MICROSOFT Studios games, Shannon Loftis mentioned that we shouldn't expect different target FPS across MS games. Frame rate is a design call, and can be CPU bound in many instances, so she doesn't anticipate we'll change target frame rate across different Xbox One sku's.
That said, there's no mandate. Both third parties and internal studios can do what they like... but if they choose to offer Scorpio players a tangible gaming upgrade by giving them twice the FPS, they better have a really good reason for it, and be able to sell the idea to their respective Xbox leadership.
Personally, I think it's a bad idea to have (or offer) different frame rate targets across X1/Scorpio... the design/development team should determine the right frame rate for the game to be played at (recall, Zelda Ocarina of Time only ran at 24fps and is still considered one of the best games in history), and it should run at that target as consistently as possible across all devices.
