The advancement of AI in videogames from servers in the cloud and beyond.
- Thread starter Mcmasters
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I don't have a clue, you're right.
What I do know, is that what I see and play in TF, is not impressive to me as a gamer. If they're trying to impressive me with telling me they use "the cloud", then as a gamer, I should see something that makes me say "ok, now that's impressive".
If not, then bragging about the cloud is just something that gaming devs will get wet over, but it won't make a difference to average gamers....not when they see mediocre visuals, bad AI, etc.
Wait. How is it that you can see the difference between 1080p and 900p but not see the difference in A. I. between T. F. and Destiny? Something fishy going on here....
TF , with the cloud, 792p 40-60 fps.
TF, without the cloud, 720p 30 fps.
Am I doing this right?
Yes, but at least on the 4 you have another big exclusive releasing in the drought months. X1... nothing which is why I said releasing another big exclusive like FH2 or SO would've been nice but alas, the timelines don't match and everything is bunched up in the Fall/Winter where a crap load of games are coming out too.
And yes, if you have PS+, your saves are uploaded to the cloud on a consistent basis.
BF4 feels more like you're in an actual war than TF does. I've played both.
TF, without the cloud, 720p 30 fps.
Am I doing this right?
Yes, but at least on the 4 you have another big exclusive releasing in the drought months. X1... nothing which is why I said releasing another big exclusive like FH2 or SO would've been nice but alas, the timelines don't match and everything is bunched up in the Fall/Winter where a crap load of games are coming out too.
And yes, if you have PS+, your saves are uploaded to the cloud on a consistent basis.
Drama whore my sack why dont you?
And yes, I DO have to bring up Crackdown. And yes. I do feel TF has an advantage in A.I. because of the Cloud. No other FPS shooter out there uses it. There was a video on Youtube where this guy was showing use of the CLoud in TF, and in it, was a level (Im not familiar with the name of it) but it was in a desert. In the backdrop, were these huge beasts that simply added to the over all feel of the world gamers were playing in. Also the ships hovering in the sky during the battles. These are things we havent seen in any game, on any console. In fact, TF made you feel as if you were in a war, moreso than any other title in recent memory. These are but small examples but, the Cloud seemed to go much further than just the grunts in the game.
BF4 feels more like you're in an actual war than TF does. I've played both.
Let's be totally clear:
Titanfall's AI algorithms for the bots, turrets, and Titan's isn't anything that couldn't be done (in isolation) locally on the console. (I'd also concede that the AI algorithms aren't terribly impressive. I play the crap out of Titanfall, and the AI algorithms aren't impressive to me)
...however...
The volume of bots, turrets, and possible AI-controlled Titans (as well as ambient world life) is higher than that which could be done without dedicated servers, especially on top of the 12 real-world players.
Finally, dedicated servers alone wouldn't be enough to keep the experience as seamless, smooth, and consistent as it is without the use of the cloud to get 'free' load distribution, local data-centers world-wide, and auto-scaling.
So the advancement that Titanfall makes in AI is:
High volume of cloud-controlled AI entities, with consistently low latency responses and interactions.
It's not as glamorous or as interesting to users as "drivatars" from Forza, and I'd tend to agree that it's not the best showcase of the technology, but it's absolutely false to assert that what Titanfall delivers could be done without the cloud. If you had dedicated servers only, you'd lose the consistency in the experience around the world, and you'd introduce more lag/latency to some regions. Without the AI offloaded to the cloud, you wouldn't have the volume you have, and/or you wouldn't be able to host as many real players per session.
Titanfall's AI algorithms for the bots, turrets, and Titan's isn't anything that couldn't be done (in isolation) locally on the console. (I'd also concede that the AI algorithms aren't terribly impressive. I play the crap out of Titanfall, and the AI algorithms aren't impressive to me)
...however...
The volume of bots, turrets, and possible AI-controlled Titans (as well as ambient world life) is higher than that which could be done without dedicated servers, especially on top of the 12 real-world players.
Finally, dedicated servers alone wouldn't be enough to keep the experience as seamless, smooth, and consistent as it is without the use of the cloud to get 'free' load distribution, local data-centers world-wide, and auto-scaling.
So the advancement that Titanfall makes in AI is:
High volume of cloud-controlled AI entities, with consistently low latency responses and interactions.
It's not as glamorous or as interesting to users as "drivatars" from Forza, and I'd tend to agree that it's not the best showcase of the technology, but it's absolutely false to assert that what Titanfall delivers could be done without the cloud. If you had dedicated servers only, you'd lose the consistency in the experience around the world, and you'd introduce more lag/latency to some regions. Without the AI offloaded to the cloud, you wouldn't have the volume you have, and/or you wouldn't be able to host as many real players per session.
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TF , with the cloud, 792p 40-60 fps. TF, without the cloud, 720p 30 fps. Am I doing this right?
That is funny
I agree, it would have been nice to have been spread out. I am still sitting on only one AAA game on my PS4 (Killzone 4) since the debut of the PS4. So I have had a drought (for me) since the console release. Now finally I can get some PS4 love next week with The Last of Us. But on the X1, I had a rather large AAA offering at release and through spring up to Titanfall. And now I will have an Xbox One drought (exclusive wise that is). But this fall and winter, it looks like both consoles will be firing on all cylinders again, and we will be swimming in games.
Nice. I remember on the PS3 I had to manually do that, as well as manually upload my trophies (sync).
I agree with that. Large map, 64 players on BF4, with all the vehicles, planes, choppers, land vehicles, different weapons, aircraft carriers...BF4 is graphically and physically (as in physics), the most impressive grand scale game I have seen on console, ever.
I have never had any lag in Titanfall, but I have seen the screen slow to a crawl in massive Titan battles and explosions, bringing the game to its knees!
thank you... great summation of the point I was trying to make.
Funny.. i play this game on a less than 6Mbps internet connection... no lag. Hell, when I had 1.5Mbps DSL, no lag... Believe me, my internet is about as bad as it can get. Hell, I almost didnt make the cut off to have fast enough internet when MS announced the X1 initially.
I don't buy it that the game is "laggy"... of the 15 or so folks I know who own and play the game, both on X1 and 360, none have seen or complained of lag.
I have seen SLIGHT judder at times during battles involving 4 or more titans, but nothing even remotely game changing and has ZERO to do with the cloud.
That is funny
I agree, it would have been nice to have been spread out. I am still sitting on only one AAA game on my PS4 (Killzone 4) since the debut of the PS4. So I have had a drought (for me) since the console release. Now finally I can get some PS4 love next week with The Last of Us. But on the X1, I had a rather large AAA offering at release and through spring up to Titanfall. And now I will have an Xbox One drought (exclusive wise that is). But this fall and winter, it looks like both consoles will be firing on all cylinders again, and we will be swimming in games.
Nice. I remember on the PS3 I had to manually do that, as well as manually upload my trophies (sync).
I agree with that. Large map, 64 players on BF4, with all the vehicles, planes, choppers, land vehicles, different weapons, aircraft carriers...BF4 is graphically and physically (as in physics), the most impressive grand scale game I have seen on console, ever.
You still have to sync your trophies though to get them to show up on websites like psnprofiles.com. I actually prefer this method because I like to see when I had got the trophies so I can play offline (when internet is down or something) and then sync them back up when I have internet again. The Xbox Live method is if you're offline and you get the achievement, you won't get the timestamp which is annoying to me but I'm just anal like that.
Last time I played on PC it was laggy as hell. No reason to lie but you can choose to believe me or not.
It was laggy no reason to lie. So actually no it isn't bulls***. That is my own experience I'm not trying to speak for others.
I never heard of PSN profiles.com. Thanks! I see it's not a Sony site, but it looks like a freakin' nice well laid out site for all PSN trophies and profiles. It says 3552 players in Watchdogs right now. Is that what that means? It's tracking all that info?
I have never played Xbox (or PS) offline, so I am not sure what that means by timestamp. Are you saying that if I was to disconnect my Xbox One from the internet, got an achievement at 1:33pm on 07/24/14, and then connected my Xbox One to the internet, my achievement time and date is not listed by Xbox or Microsoft anywhere?
Last time I played on PC it was laggy as hell. No reason to lie but you can choose to believe me or not.
Hazard is my n****. We go way back...this man is indeed telling his experience.
Last time I played on PC it was laggy as hell. No reason to lie but you can choose to believe me or not.
Edit: Fair enough. I recant my "bulls***" remark.
I haven't tried it on PC, and it very well could be inferior to Xbox One in some capacity with regards to lag - because on Xbox One, it's the most consistently lag-free experience out there. I've sunk over 40 hours into Titanfall at this point, and not once have I ever had a laggy experience. Not once.
I can't say that for any other console MP game in existence, and that consistency comes from the cloud, with auto-scale and regional distribution across global data centers.
Yeah? It seemed smooth to me on the PC betaLast time I played on PC it was laggy as hell. No reason to lie but you can choose to believe me or not.
That was my experience last time I played it. Before that it was smooth. Could very well be if I played it today it would run smooth. I just don't enjoy the game but I might try it later just to see.
I got my X1 you bastard!! WHAT ELSE YOU WANT?! What?, I gotta buy all the games for it too?!
So you have been arguing this whole time about the AI for a game you don't even own? You've even told people that own and play the game that they are wrong about the AI.
How do you expect anybody to take you seriously?
Wait. How is it that you can see the difference between 1080p and 900p but not see the difference in A. I. between T. F. and Destiny? Something fishy going on here....
I haven't played Destiny, so I can't comment on Destiny.
But....I have played all the Halos, Borderlands, Skyrims, etc. In the many years I've been gaming, I've played a ton of games, and can tell you, the AI in TF is bad. Comically bad.
You, on the other hand, have not even played TF, and yet here you are commenting. I have played TF, and many other games, so I can compare. The AI is bad, very very bad. Pointing to a small number of maps that have some odd flying creature scooping up other bad AI doesn't make the game have good AI. Look to Borderlands, where you can stumble upon a bandit encampment, have the bandits actively try to get you, avoid attacks, duck behind cover, all while flying creatures above are trying to get you and the AI...and the bandits going after you AND the creature AI.
In Skyrim, dragons attack, and those that can, will come to your aid, pulling out the proper weapon in their inventory to attack a dragon (versus let's say, a random attack by several vampires), and those unarmed, run for cover.
Have you played any of the Halo games, and been in the middle of a large scale battle? Battles that don't play out the same way twice because of how smart the AI is? We're talking about the large battles between you and your teammates against all the enemies coming at you, on foot, on ground vehicles and air vehicles. That's impressive AI....and I don't even like Halo, so I can't be accused of being biased simply because I don't like TF.
There's nothing fishy here....TF just has horrible AI. And I get "why" the AI is bad, and am ok with that....but don't question why I'm not "impressed" with TF's AI, when there's nothing to be impressed about it.
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With youtube, twitch, and other sources (not to mention playing at friends houses, etc.) - it's not difficult to accurately and/or fairly assess games on many levels without owning them. There's an abundance of media out there, and opportunity to play without owning.
Does anyone remember theseekar bragging about how Kameo was one of the most impressive games ever because of that part in the game that had hundreds of bad guys on the screen that really didn't do much?
Having tons of stupid fodder on screen has been done before without the clouds. It's nonsensical to believe that next gen hardware would struggle at having TF's bots on screen if not for the cloud.
You can tell me all you want that I'm just making an assumption, but we've already seen in games like Halo, that you could have smart AI, a ton of AI characters on screen at once, and it all work.
Having tons of stupid fodder on screen has been done before without the clouds. It's nonsensical to believe that next gen hardware would struggle at having TF's bots on screen if not for the cloud.
You can tell me all you want that I'm just making an assumption, but we've already seen in games like Halo, that you could have smart AI, a ton of AI characters on screen at once, and it all work.
And yet over 90% of the TF videos addresing the bots all have something in common...they all admit the AI is brain dead.