85 people control more wealth than 3.5 billion people

Don't have a problem with it( yes I'm poor) What I do have a problem with us lazy people on welfare who refuse to work, milk the system, and when everything is said and done end up making more than I do.
If you came up with a multi billion idea you deserve it. If you worked hard studied hard, and became a CEO you deserve it.
Those companies that took bail out money, no them CEOs deserve jack.



So they deserve most of the wealth that they earn due to milking a system that rewards them for figuring out how to get others to work for them for low wages?

Capitalism WILL break down when the rich continue to hoard their wealth. No one, NO ONE is saying the rich shouldn't be rich. The artical isn't even talking about the rich. It's talking about just a very select elite few.
 
So they deserve most of the wealth that they earn due to milking a system that rewards them for figuring out how to get others to work for them for low wages?

Capitalism WILL break down when the rich continue to hoard their wealth. No one, NO ONE is saying the rich shouldn't be rich. The artical isn't even talking about the rich. It's talking about just a very select elite few.


This is kind of why I posted that Darwin thread. I'm starting to look at Economics, especially under Capitalism, as another form of Competitive Natural Selection. Nature has many examples where Individual Interests and Group Interests are either in harmony or in major conflict (Alpha Male Lion takes the previous alpha lion's female and kills any cubs she had from the previous Alpha serving that Individual Lion's interest as the expense of the group).

I think today we have an economy where Individual people or Individual Corporate entities are striving to succeed, but most are no longer doing this in a way that benefits the Group/Society. They're not necessarily behaving they way they do because their evil or greedy, but they are caught up in a process of competition that has gone bad somehow. It would be like an athlete who thinks another athlete is taking performance enhancing drugs so they start taking drugs to even though they know it's a risk to their health or getting caught.

I think some people like Warren Buffet realize this is a problem when they say their taxes should be raised. At the competitive level he lives at in the financial world, he can see our system is failing. People respond to this with skepticism, because we reasonably distrust adding more layers of complexity to the Income Tax Code. Or some Conservatives respond with sarcasm saying Buffet should just voluntarily give up more of his money to the IRS voluntarily as an individual.

Bottom line, wealth really does need to be redistributed. Or rather, "Currency" needs to circulate literally like a river current which these days is more like a river that's been dammed up. I do not like the idea of government making this happen artificially through higher income taxes or having businesses pecked to death by fees and regulations or micromanagement. I think a more subtle approach is needed where the market still has a lot of freedom and competition.

I tend to like Robert H. Frank's idea of flipping our system around to a Progressive Consumption Tax and dropping the entire Income Tax. Consumption Tax should not be Flat because that would screw over the lower classes that have to spend most of their money and can't really save. The Progressive Consumption Tax would hit wealthy people that are extravagant spenders, but reward wealthy investors and wages paid to workers would be categorized as an investment.
 
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I've never heard of anyone ever arguing that there shouldn't be wealthy or extremely wealthy people. It's the cost of their wealth to society that should be questioned.

Walmart is a great example. The Walton family, which owns Walmart, and richest family in the world, controls a fortune equal to the wealth of the bottom 41.5% of Americans combined. The combined wealth of the Walton family is $144.7 billion. Walmart's annual sales in this country are $312 billion range and $11 billion in profits, not including international sales and profit.

That's fine. The family deserves their wealth and investors deserve their profit. But Walmart is one of the biggest, if not the biggest, companies with employees on Medicaid and food stamps. The Walton family's wealth, Walmart's profits and investor's profits is being subsidized by taxpayers. Moreover, small retailers can't compete and lose jobs. The vast majority of positions are low wage jobs that offer poor health care options. The company has very strong anti-union policies to ensure that they control labor. And taxpayers help subsidize part of that.

Sure, the hard working rich deserve their wealth, but the social costs of extreme wealth is disturbing.
 
That is so much money it is ridiculous. You know the Walton family live off the interest alone lol.

There should be wealthy, most people won't argue against that.

But the distribution of money is just too extreme.

This video, while being a bit anecdotal since it's a survey of 5000 Americans, I think hits the nail on the head. People really do not understand how bad the distribution of wealth has gotten even in just the U.S. You pretty much are getting to the point of saying that there is no middle class. There is poor, not so poor, upper poor, rich and extreme wealthy lol.

 
So they deserve most of the wealth that they earn due to milking a system that rewards them for figuring out how to get others to work for them for low wages?

Capitalism WILL break down when the rich continue to hoard their wealth. No one, NO ONE is saying the rich shouldn't be rich. The artical isn't even talking about the rich. It's talking about just a very select elite few.
Please tell me what economy would you like, socialism, communism, don't even get me started. Sure in the gel not for handouts, sure n the hell not for Drs making the same as a fast food worker. Btw American is no longer capitalist country thank Obama for that.
 
Please tell me what economy would you like, socialism, communism, don't even get me started. Sure in the gel not for handouts, sure n the hell not for Drs making the same as a fast food worker. Btw American is no longer capitalist country thank Obama for that.


Wow, listen up numnuts.

1. American is every bit a capitalistic country, and Obama hasn't changed anything. If you believe that, then there's a bridge to sell to you.
2. You don't have to be socialist or communist to see that a very small elite should hold most of the world's wealth.


What are you, 12? Are you using your redneck dad's arguments to formulate your own arguments? Seriously, only a child like mind would say america is no longer capitalist because of Obama. lol
 
Please tell me what economy would you like, socialism, communism, don't even get me started. Sure in the gel not for handouts, sure n the hell not for Drs making the same as a fast food worker. Btw American is no longer capitalist country thank Obama for that.

I think we're still learning the consequences of many of Bush's decisions. Socialism might even seem better than the rocky road we are set on.

What if the wealthy were not bailed out and peoples' retirement accounts just evaporated? I think I'd rather have seen the money used to bailout the retirees instead of prop up the motherf***ers who oversaw this financial disaster.

 
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Wow, listen up numnuts.

1. American is every bit a capitalistic country, and Obama hasn't changed anything. If you believe that, then there's a bridge to sell to you.
2. You don't have to be socialist or communist to see that a very small elite should hold most of the world's wealth.


What are you, 12? Are you using your redneck dad's arguments to formulate your own arguments? Seriously, only a child like mind would say america is no longer capitalist because of Obama. lol
1 my dad is a liberal as they get
2us govt is the nations largest employer
3 after everything us said and done every working American gives over half of every dollar they make in taxes, sales etc etc etc
4 I'm 31
5 typically liberal bs. Go personal when you disagree with someone
6 Nationalized health care govt bailouts hmmm yeah that's not capitalism.
 
1 my dad is a liberal as they get
2us govt is the nations largest employer
3 after everything us said and done every working American gives over half of every dollar they make in taxes, sales etc etc etc
4 I'm 31
5 typically liberal bs. Go personal when you disagree with someone
6 Nationalized health care govt bailouts hmmm yeah that's not capitalism.


1. Good for your dad.
2. US gov being largest employer doesn't take away from us being a capitalistic country. derp
3. Nope. Couldn't be farther from the truth. Your average american does NOT pay over 50% of their salary in taxes (all taxes combined). Grow up, get a job, and you'll see.
4. So, your a manbaby?
5. It's not about disagreeing. We don't live in a communist or socialist society. That is fact and common knowledge. Also, Obama didn't change our country from a capitalistic one to a communist one. If you spew r******d nonsense, expect to be called out on it.
6. We don't have nationalized health care. Most americans have insurance through employer or by purchasing it. EVERYONE has the FREEDOM to purchase their own insurance if they can afford it.



Go to bed, it's past your bedtime.
 
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1. Good for your dad.
2. US gov being largest employer doesn't take away from us being a capitalistic country. derp
3. Nope. Couldn't be farther from the truth. Your average american does NOT pay over 50% of their salary in taxes (all taxes combined). Grow up, get a job, and you'll see.
4. So, your a manbaby?
5. It's not about disagreeing. We don't live in a communist or socialist society. That is fact and common knowledge. Also, Obama didn't change our country from a capitalistic one to a communist one. If you spew r******d nonsense, expect to be called out on it.
6. We don't have nationalized health care. Most americans have insurance through employer or by purchasing it. EVERYONE has the FREEDOM to purchase their own insurance if they can afford it.



Go to bed, it's past your bedtime.
You need some bedtime reading will have a debate with you once you get the actual facts. Some reading suggestins irs tax law. Also look at all your reciepts. Keep throwing insults all you want. Only shows how frigging ignorant you are to the real world. Btw been working since I was 15.
 
You need some bedtime reading will have a debate with you once you get the actual facts. Some reading suggestins irs tax law. Also look at all your reciepts. Keep throwing insults all you want. Only shows how frigging ignorant you are to the real world. Btw been working since I was 15.


I keep my receipts AND do my own taxes. I'm over 40 and have been working since 14. NEVER have I paid over 50% in taxes.
Between federal, fica, etc, I pay less than 15% in taxes. Between federal, fica, etc AND sales taxes, I probably don't even go over 20% in taxes in total.

I make about 6,250 a month, and in total, less than 1300 of that goes into total taxes. By your estimation, over 3,100 of my money goes into taxes.....lol, that's a good laugh.





But please, do bring up ignorance and keep going around saying that Obama has turned us into a communist/socialist country. I guess you are no longer able to earn a buck the good old capitalistic way anymore. I can't imagine how the Trumps and Bill Gates of this country are so wealthy in this communist country, you know, due to them not being able to earn the good old fashion way and being forced to give up their homes for the good of the people, amiright comrades?
 
I keep my receipts AND do my own taxes. I'm over 40 and have been working since 14. NEVER have I paid over 50% in taxes.
Between federal, fica, etc, I pay less than 15% in taxes. Between federal, fica, etc AND sales taxes, I probably don't even go over 20% in taxes in total.

I make about 6,250 a month, and in total, less than 1300 of that goes into total taxes. By your estimation, over 3,100 of my money goes into taxes.....lol, that's a good laugh.





But please, do bring up ignorance and keep going around saying that Obama has turned us into a communist/socialist country. I guess you are no longer able to earn a buck the good old capitalistic way anymore. I can't imagine how the Trumps and Bill Gates of this country are so wealthy in this communist country, you know, due to them not being able to earn the good old fashion way and being forced to give up their homes for the good of the people, amiright comrades?
CAN YOU READ? I specifically said ALL. taxes. SALES TAX TAX ON GAS etc etc. I DIDN'T LIMIT IT TO WHAT COMEZ OUT OF YOUR CHECK. Also gates and trump earned their billions before America took such a sharp turn. But go on keep handing your money over to people who just refuse to earn a living. Keep paying for food stamps and healthcare for a mom with 6 kids n 6 baby daddies(btw my sister has 4 kids 4 baby daddies) Keep paying for Billion dollar companies because they deserve to stay in business. Keep paying taxes on your food, gas,electric,property,water so on and so forth. Keep paying for subsidized housing. Yeah we are ALL going to keep paying, UNTIL WE ARE ALL BROKE! No I don't include actually disabled, old, or people having a rough time. Its not the job of the government to take care of people. Its the job of fellow citizens to help each other.
 
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Obamacare feels like a step to healthcare fascism.
Well if you don't have healthcare you have to pay a tax penalty, forgot to mention fascism. Thanks
So we have capitalism,fascism, communism, socialism
hmmmmm What type if economy has generated the most inventions, is associated with freedom, and when in practice creates untold wealth for millions of people?
 
hmmmmm What type if economy has generated the most inventions, is associated with freedom, and when in practice creates untold wealth for millions of people?

Currently? None.

60-70 years ago when the wealthy/rich didn't control the government to the extent they do now? capitalism.

The ideal is to strive for a mixed economy and in my view, social capitalism is the absolute ideal.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_capitalism

The U.S. already partially is a social capitalistic country.

but, since the market has run amuck given how much gov't control the wealthy/corporations have over regulations that pass, it is currently deficient.
 
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CAN YOU READ? I specifically said ALL. taxes. SALES TAX TAX ON GAS etc etc. I DIDN'T LIMIT IT TO WHAT COMEZ OUT OF YOUR CHECK. Also gates and trump earned their billions before America took such a sharp turn. But go on keep handing your money over to people who just refuse to earn a living. Keep paying for food stamps and healthcare for a mom with 6 kids n 6 baby daddies(btw my sister has 4 kids 4 baby daddies) Keep paying for Billion dollar companies because they deserve to stay in business. Keep paying taxes on your food, gas,electric,property,water so on and so forth. Keep paying for subsidized housing. Yeah we are ALL going to keep paying, UNTIL WE ARE ALL BROKE! No I don't include actually disabled, old, or people having a rough time. Its not the job of the government to take care of people. Its the job of fellow citizens to help each other.

And I said all taxes, learn to read. Not even close to 50% of my income goes to ALL taxes I pay.

But you're right, we don't live in a capitalistic country. All the rich and well off are just figments of my communistic imagination. And trump and gates won't make anymore money. lol
 
85 people have more wealth than the poorest 3.5 billion.

When I was about 10 years old, my dad opened a bank account for me and started me off with $100. That's a clean $100 net worth as I have zero debts.

No doubt in my mind that $100 in my Bank of Montreal savings account is more money than millions of people in the world combined. Tons of poor people with nothing. And also, lots more with negative worth as they have more debts than cash/assets.

So as a 10 year old with a $100 hand out, I was worth more than millions of people.

That's so unfair! lol
 
Wow, that's suprising.. Not really. I've always said the biggest problem with this world is the greedy rich people that don't share their money. Where's all this money? Sitting in a mansion or in a bank doing nothing right?

.

The problem right there, people don't know how banking works.
 
When I was about 10 years old, my dad opened a bank account for me and started me off with $100. That's a clean $100 net worth as I have zero debts.
So as a 10 year old with a $100 hand out, I was worth more than millions of people.

That's so unfair! lol
You HAD more, but you didn't control much.
I think that's kind of the point that poverty doesn't need to exist.
I'm not saying people should just divide money out evenly like participation badges and be a happy family.
But why is it that an employed and educated man, presumably like your father, might give his kid a decent little chunk of his weekly salary just as your dad did (I guess $100 was still fair amount of money even for an adult when you were 10?), yet because they live in sub-Saharan Africa, that "decent little chunk" adds up to $3.99 or something.
It's not the man's fault - he studied, he works hard, he got a job. It's not your doing, you and your dad are just regular joes, too.
It's the way it is, and I don't see it changing in a hurry, but I do think there are people who could change how things are, but don't, because the sacrifice required would remove them from that elite 85 people.
Crappy currency values and political instability in far off places are a huge boon to capitalism. And I am a capitalist, I do agree that it's the system that we need to use, but it doesn't mean that rampant, unfettered, unregulated capitalism is a good thing.
 
Poor Trump, how will he be able to afford the tapings for his hugely successful TV show?

Well, he's got a ton of money that he earned before Obama, but if he's not careful, the money will be wasted in no time. And now that he can't make money like before, he'll quickly become one of us.
 
I love hyperbolic Libertarian views of our society. EVERYTHING IS BAD! Speeling and grammar are knot necessary. Rather than using facts or links, frightening words like socialism, communism and Obama are used to scare home the point. The gubernment is coming for you!

I can't help myself when I read these posts in the Forrest Gump voice, sorry.
 
I love hyperbolic Libertarian views of our society. EVERYTHING IS BAD! Speeling and grammar are knot necessary. Rather than using facts or links, frightening words like socialism, communism and Obama are used to scare home the point. The gubernment is coming for you!

I can't help myself when I read these posts in the Forrest Gump voice, sorry.



Stop being so ignorant. There is no capitalism in america and it's all because of Obama. before obama, trump made money, after obama, anything he earns goes to the greater could of the motherland. Capitalism is dead in this country.
 
I like money like the other guy, but I do not feel the need to be obsessed with becoming rich, & being jealous of others.

The most happy people are more often people who are content, then people who are rich, or seeking to be rich.

Family, kids, health, a decent job that pay decently, & time to pursue my interests, good weather, & time to surf Unionvgf, at work is good enough for me.

Not saying I will say no, if a lost uncle come one & tell me I will inherited his multi-millions in wealth, but I am not going to have such fantasy.

What I wish, though, is people who are rich can maybe use their wealth for something good, maybe shared a bit of earnings with their employees, give money to needy, or provide more jobs to people.
 
One of the main issues with capitalism is that it is a bit of a pyramid scheme.

The more wealth you control, the more wealth you can make. If I have $5,000 left over for investments.. and another guy has $5,000,000 left over for investments.. and we both invest in the same company.. that earns us a 10% return.

I have another $500... he has another $500,000.

It goes even deeper when you look at how generations of families horde money; it's not the fault of the children/grandchildren/great grandchildren, and it's not they they don't work hard.. but they really don't have to. Aside from starting with so much capital that they can easily "build" things, they also have connections.. and influence and power.

The wealthy can influence politics to change laws to benefit them..

In America, the vast majority of the population will never be very wealthy.. yet, this same population is sold on the idea that if they work hard, they too can be wealthy.. it's really.. "If you take massive risks, with the very few resources you have, you MIGHT be one of the few people that climbs the ladder!"

Even being incredibly intelligent and highly skilled doesn't really do it.. a high skilled worker might make $150k a year, but they are also expected to live somewhere expensive.. and while that might leave them with an extra $50k to invest, instead of the meager $5k of the common man.. it's still nothing compared to the guy with an extra $5,000,000 to invest. His 10% return is $5k..

He does have more of an ability to take that massive risk of a truly big investment.. start a company for instance.. but.. companies fail.. most startups die.

I've spent the last decade working my ass off.. and I have some money to throw around.. and COULD become a multi-millionaire if it works out. Or I could lose my entire life savings. That life savings is a small fraction of what a truly "Rich" person has in their pockets to take the same risks.
 
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You HAD more, but you didn't control much.
I think that's kind of the point that poverty doesn't need to exist.

That's the point people are missing or they simply don't care. Hey, I'm smart! I penny pinch and go through newspaper ads and use every coupon and get every discount possible! I play the stock market like a wizard! I do this! I do that! I have money, and if you don't you're just dumb!

Wake up and realize that the world will never be a better place until the people that can afford to help the most start helping half as much as the people who really can't afford to help at all. Sure, there's a lot of generous millionaires and billionaires out there but if they all did their part poverty wouldn't exist. You can argue all you want that lazy people will be lazy but stop and ask yourself why people are the way they are. Chances are, if you grew up with nothing you'll never have anything.

Like Bunz said, capitalism is kind of like a pyramid scheme. All it is is monopolization at the end of the day. If you've got money, you can make money. If you don't, good luck. Simple as that. Seriously, you stuck up people who think everyone has the same opportunity in life as one another need to get a clue. Then again that's why you're stuck up isn't it? Go figure.
 
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You can argue all you want that lazy people will be lazy but stop and ask yourself why people are the way they are. Chances are, if you grew up with nothing you'll never have anything.
I said this same story on the TXB forums. But in my opinion, too bad. Nobody said life is fair. Every one is dealt a different hand. Some guys get pocket aces and are the children of Bill Gates. Some get a 2 and a 7 off suit and live beside garbage dumps in a third world country. You do the best you get, and shouldn't expect hand outs. One part luck, one part effort.

Out of all the posters on this board, I highly doubt there are many that are on the same level as my parents growing up, yet they made it, took care of us kids, raised us well.

- Communist country
- Assets taken over
- Various parents killed/suicide
- Mom and her brothers (my uncles) imprisoned for who knows what
- Parents got their asses to Canada through some shady ways, after pleading/bribing guards
- Both knew zero English
- Both learned English over time and perfectly bilingual now
- Have fun trying to learn English as a teenager for the first time. And don't forget French too because back then the major Canadian City was Montreal, not Toronto. Montreal was the big city immigrants went to
- Dad worked from the time he got here.... starting at crappy waiter jobs, while going to school at night
- Took around 8-10 years of night school to get University degrees. Degrees that normally take 4 years straight through as a typical student
- Had hardly any money
- First residence on their own was renting..... SOME GUY'S GARAGE
- Didn't get their first car until my dad was about 35 years old. Have fun taking the bus in snowy Montreal
- When my dad reached about 30 or so years old, he finally graduated and got a steady decent job and then it snowballed into better paying job and decades later we are in the situation we are all in now
- My parents taught us hard work, stay in school, don't blow money on dumb things, and in general don't be a idiot.... (crime, drugs etc...). It worked for us

Next time I see them for dinner, I should ask them what they think of guys sitting around at home, not wanting to work hard or not wanting to work for low wages, and instead preferring waiting for gov't cheques in the mail..... I bet they'd scoff and say those guys are lazy freeloaders.

Money and wealth also go hand in hand with the career you choose. Never mind the third world guys who are stuck in the middle of nowhere with no clue what to do or where to go, but just for people with dead end jobs. People fully know what jobs/career fields have the potential to pay well and which ones don't. And if they need to flip burgers because they lost that office job, it means two things.... one, you don't have the skills to get re-hired by someone else, or two, you are in dire need of cash if have to force yourself to make $10/hr (before taxes) since he/she didn't try building up a rainy day fund because most people in life will get let go from a job at some point in their 40 year working career.

Like Bunz said, capitalism is kind of like a pyramid scheme. All it is is monopolization at the end of the day. If you've got money, you can make money. If you don't, good luck. Simple as that. Seriously, you stuck up people who think everyone has the same opportunity in life as one another need to get a clue. Then again that's why you're stuck up isn't it? Go figure.
And Bunz is right. I said something similar and that if you build up up assets, a person has more opportunity to grow their money. All they have to do is not blow it on dumb things like buying 3 homes, 8 cars and new sets of fancy clothes every year. As long as you live a normal life and don't try to live it up life on the edge, a person with decent cash should have net dollars left over every month to slowly build up a pile. I'm no millionaire and neither am I some VP making a million dollars. Yet if you don't blow your wad of cash, it builds over time.
 
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I imagine Intellivision's parents are incapable of ever being fired from a job like the rest of us mere mortals.
Actually, my dad was fired from a job. And my mom was a stay at home mom. Our family was a one income earner family.

Maybe if people put in a better effort and didn't blow their cash buying iPads, they'd have more cash in the bank and wouldn't have to scramble for french fry jobs when a pink slip arrives.... which can happen to anyone. I got pink slipped myself years back. Brushed up my resume, made some phone calls, got some head hunters making the rounds and got a job about one month after. It should have been 5 weeks, but when I got offered the job, I asked if I could start a week earlier than they wanted so it was a 4 week gap. Not due to money... but I was sick of sitting around not working for a month.

Work hard, have a good track record, know some people and things often work out. Getting cut can happen to anyone no matter how good someone is. It could be for various reasons. But the key thing when being unemployed is to make sure you (as a job seeker) is attractive enough that employers want to contact you and consider you for a role. For every job out there, there's probably 100s applying. And one person will get it. And that person might not even be external. The company may switch focus and hire internally. Also, even if I didn't get a job for a while, I had already built up some cash reserves that could last ages before going into the negative. And guess what? At that time, if I had lived in a place that's too costly, bought Mac PCs that cost double a Dell PC, bought expensive stuff and drove a BMW, I'd be overextended too and I'd be scrambling for any job. But no. Live modestly.

Here's a money saver. I used to have cable/internet monthly bills of $180 at my peak. TV package, movie channels, sports pack, internet, renting that HD box etc.... I cut it down to $150 as I went with more basic tv tiers. Screw that, I still don't watch most of this stuff and chopped off even more. My cable/internet bill is down to $110/mth and I will be switching to an independent internet company that will save me another $10/mth and I even get unlimited internet as opposed to 60gb cap. So it'll be $100/mth. That's reasonable for a low cable tv package and unlimited internet. And this is tax in. So it's really about $90 + tax. $80/mth savings x 12 months = about $1,000 per year savings. Multiply that by let's say another 20 years and that's $20,000. Easy money.

$20,000 in net savings over time is basically the same as someone making about $25,000 in pre-tax wages in a year..... pretty close to a minimum wage earner. So with a few cable/internet tweaks and myself forgoing some cable tv channels I'll never watch, I just saved myself the equivalent of a minimum wage earner's annual income.

I'm looking into scrapping my cable tv plan outright and just going to streaming with my unlimited plan.... though probably not likely as streaming quality is noticeably worse than direct cable feeds. But if so, there's another $500/yr saved.

Looking back, I wasted $1,000s on useless cable stuff. For me, not a big deal as I got the money. But for people hurting for cash, I bet most could (and should) chop their cable/internet packages to some extent.

Plan well and the urge to apply for french fry cook is a non-issue.

Even if I got canned tomorrow, I don't really care. I've been canned once before. I'd just do the same. Sit tight, brush up the resume, make some phone calls and if my credentials are up to par, I'll hopefully get a phone call back.
 
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