Ambition doesn't help out with the final product though, just look at cyberpunk.
Sure, but doesn't that apply to most AAA games?
Official Thread Halo: Infinite - Season 5 - Firefight Returns
- Thread starter karmakid
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Sure, but doesn't that apply to most AAA games?
Live service isn't going away. The beauty is that you can choose your release day. I'm never going to do co-op and don't need forge, so why should I wait for things I don't need?
It also comes down to choice. I still have not bought Cyberpunk yet. Instead of complaining, I wait until I feel the game is ready for me. All those bugs would have driven me nuts. Meanwhile I bought No Man's Sky on day 1 and have never been disappointed.
My opinion isn't right or wrong, but why would I want a game delayed over features I don't need right away? The game has SP and MP and that's what I need. Someone else can wait for the holiday sales and see how it shakes out. I'm on game pass anyway so it isn't even a buy decision for me.
You don't have to buy Cyberpunk to be able to say that what they did was wrong.
Now is Halo Infinity ends up being a polished and great game its development issues won't matter and the corners they cut can be forgiven but you have really have doubts about because not only have they never really delivered but what other corners did they cut?
Live service should be about adding not finishing.
You're assuming that holding back co-op means it is going to be buggy. If Halo is buggy and not polished, I'll be complaining along with everyone else. Massive bugs are never acceptable.
343 IMO has never delivered a polished finished Halo product. You can call Infinite ambitious or product of the Live service era but at the end of the day the quality has to be there.
The reveal game-play is one thing but shipping the game without co-op and Forge is entirely another especially given that the game was supposed to launch last year. This does not outwardly look like quality but the results of having to push a game out the door. I really thought Cyberpunk would have made people gun-shy about just pushing something out the door just because a a holiday deadline but given the numbers that Cyberpunk did overall maybe it had the opposite effect.
Here's another worrying thing. Staten said 343 Industries is targeting shipping campaign co-op in season two. Which assumes everything goes right and they stay on schedule. Worst case scenario and it turns into a Master Chief Collection type situation( Which it seems to be mimicking), you can throw all the milestones and deadlines out the window.
Again, I'm not saying the sky is falling but given the latest developments and 343's history, I'd temper my expectations a bit for Infinite.
The reveal game-play is one thing but shipping the game without co-op and Forge is entirely another especially given that the game was supposed to launch last year. This does not outwardly look like quality but the results of having to push a game out the door. I really thought Cyberpunk would have made people gun-shy about just pushing something out the door just because a a holiday deadline but given the numbers that Cyberpunk did overall maybe it had the opposite effect.
Here's another worrying thing. Staten said 343 Industries is targeting shipping campaign co-op in season two. Which assumes everything goes right and they stay on schedule. Worst case scenario and it turns into a Master Chief Collection type situation( Which it seems to be mimicking), you can throw all the milestones and deadlines out the window.
Again, I'm not saying the sky is falling but given the latest developments and 343's history, I'd temper my expectations a bit for Infinite.
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I am not assuming that at all and I am not even saying that
But these won't be the only corners cut to get it out. We can only speculate but to me this looks like the campaign should be delayed but Microsoft hasn't really changed as much as we want to believe so that isn't on the table.
Also makes you wonder how they went so long talking about it as a launch title. Were they considering putting this game out any cost even then?
Probably because they don't want the negative PR of another delay.
They announced it maybe too early, revealed it as a launch title too early, delayed it too late, and now feel like it has to be locked in.
If the argument in defense of them delayed features is its better then delaying the game then there is no reason both MP and campaign need to launch on the same day. Its possible the MP could have already been released.
If the SP is done and ready, why wait? I get that co-op is popular for many, but others would never even notice. Had nobody mentioned it, I wouldn't have noticed.
Releasing the game with SP campaign and F2P MP isn't too bad but just sucks for people who wanted to play through the story with friends because they have to wait at least 3 months and also need to avoid spoilers while they wait because you just know people are going to be like "OMG this and this happened..." on social media.
I won't play it without coop.
My time will be on the F2P MP until they get it right.
The friends I planned on doing coop with(and putting it on YT) are waiting with me.
There is no point to delay the game at all, it is not like they are going to charge extra and also why make everyone else wait just for those 2 features.
Honestly somewhat surprised by the people so upset at co-op being delayed. Personally, I’ve never had a positive experience with co-op play at launch for any game. Somebody is always doing something distracting like talking over dialogue, or they want to take incredibly long pauses and slow the pace to a crawl, or some ass skips a scene or keeps pressuring others to do so. In addition, I hate co-op achievements. Understandably, not having a feature is a bummer, but I didn’t expect that people would be so upset over it.
Pretty disappointed with no co-op too, have played almost every halo legendary co-op with almost the same group of friends and have great nostalgic memories doing it, the best memories were back in the Bungie era of course.
Now I have to decide to either wait or just play it.
Now I have to decide to either wait or just play it.
I'm not really upset with coop and Forge being delayed in terms of the wait to play it, but more that this really seems to imply more underlying problems within the studio and during game development. The MP beta actually started some positive momentum with the game, and this just put a major halt to that.
There isn't another AAA game who's expectations for campaign and multiplayer are similar. CoD is the closest but it is still delivering corridor shooters that haven't really evolved in any way. None of them will offer a level creator like Forge.
Ambition is certainly a risk. It doesn't guarantee better. It doesn't mean scope isn't reduced back to a less ambitious final offering. That's what happened with Cyberpunk. Could happen with Halo as its campaign has been retooled multiple times in the past few years. Most AAA games play it safe. I personally want to applaud devs or publishers who are willing to take those risks.
They aren't doing anything risky. That is laughable.
But either way it only matters if they deliver.
More ambition is a risk. Going outside of the lines of what you've done before is a risk. More ambition doesn't equate to innovation. Don't twist my message.
Also its amount of content shouldn't be used as a defense. Part of the reason Halo is big is because Bungie delivered in content and quality. They have certainly had the time and budget to pull it off and then some.
Lets hype Halo based on its past but don't hold it to those standards? You can't have your cake and eat it too.
I faintly remember an interview with one of the studio leads, may have been Kiki or Bonnie, but they said they wanted to work on a new engine since four. That and the team was disappointed they didn’t use one for five, they almost didn’t for infinite.
But then even in development of the new engine, SlipSpace, they had to rebuild it.
INSIDE INFINITE – JANUARY 2021
<p>Hey everyone – ske7ch here wishing you a belated Happy New Year and welcoming you to the first “Inside Infinite” of 2021! Before we dive in, I want to take a moment to share our plans for the next few months and our commitment to our community. Following last month’s update, the start of the...
Here’s something that excites me as an engineering architect: For Halo Infinite, we rebuilt the engine multi-threading solution to ensure high execution efficiency across all platforms and PCs, instead of running optimally just on Xbox One. We used this new system to transition the renderer to a massively parallel multi-threaded framework to support the increased cost of all our new rendering features and achieve high graphics efficiency on PC CPUs of various size as well as Xbox Series X/S and Xbox One X/S hardware. In practice, this means that we are doing our very best to make sure Halo Infinite runs optimally on any device you may choose to play on!
If it runs on last gen... it's not current genI faintly remember an interview with one of the studio leads, may have been Kiki or Bonnie, but they said they wanted to work on a new engine since four. That and the team was disappointed they didn’t use one for five, they almost didn’t for infinite.
But then even in development of the new engine, SlipSpace, they had to rebuild it.
INSIDE INFINITE – JANUARY 2021
<p>Hey everyone – ske7ch here wishing you a belated Happy New Year and welcoming you to the first “Inside Infinite” of 2021! Before we dive in, I want to take a moment to share our plans for the next few months and our commitment to our community. Following last month’s update, the start of the...www.halowaypoint.com
Here’s something that excites me as an engineering architect: For Halo Infinite, we rebuilt the engine multi-threading solution to ensure high execution efficiency across all platforms and PCs, instead of running optimally just on Xbox One. We used this new system to transition the renderer to a massively parallel multi-threaded framework to support the increased cost of all our new rendering features and achieve high graphics efficiency on PC CPUs of various size as well as Xbox Series X/S and Xbox One X/S hardware. In practice, this means that we are doing our very best to make sure Halo Infinite runs optimally on any device you may choose to play on!
This ties into my point. This game isn't comparable to Bungie's Halo's just because it's checking the same boxes. This Forge isn't Bungie's Forge. This campaign isn't as streamlined as Bungie's campaign. This multiplayer will have to deliver more than Bungie's multiplayer. This coop isn't as straight-forward as Bungie's coop. The engine needs to be more malleable to support additions for a decade.
I shouldn't need to repeat every time but I've said there have been leadership issues. There has been development hell. Comparisons to Bungie Halo's or other AAA games still don't fly here. They've rebuilt a platform...not just a game.
And the boxes have to be checked because Bungie did it and did it well. Nobody will care about the amount of content if it isn't good just like people forgive anything delayed if it is. The comparison to Bungie will always fly because that is bar whether they change something or not.
If they don't deliver we will just move the goalposts and repeat Microsoft PR about it being a platform.