Introducing Project Morpheus: Sony's VR prototype

Kassen said:
That's what I'm worried about too. Staring at a screen at a very short, fixed distance for long periods of time can seriously mess up your eyes. I'm hoping that they got good optical magnifying lens inside to help alleviate that problem.
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It's much closer than I would hold any device I'm viewing -- a book, a phone, whatever. A comfortable viewing distance would be about a foot away. It seems like it would be a strain, for me to focus on an image two inches from my eyes, over a period of time. I'm sure they've thought of all this, but it does concern me.
 
Andy said:
It's much closer than I would hold any device I'm viewing -- a book, a phone, whatever. A comfortable viewing distance would be about a foot away. It seems like it would be a strain, for me to focus on an image two inches from my eyes, over a period of time. I'm sure they've thought of all this, but it does concern me.
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For me, it seems just about every VR helmet will be a strain due to having a helmet strapped to your head. Of course, someone can take a break and pause the game every 30 minutes and take a break but that goes against the point of having fun.

Having a hockey helmet strapped on your head while playing can be just as cumbersome, but in sports you aren't focusing your attention all the time on what's in front of you. Sometimes it's game action, other times you can take it easy and rest in between plays and referee whistles.

Also, your eyes and helmet direction are independent since you can rotate your eyes. So unless these VR helmets are retina tracking and the game window adjusts to where your pupils are looking and not the direction of the helmet it will feel unnatural.

In gaming, you're typically focused all the time on what's happening (unless it's a turn based game you can take your time) and needing to stare at an LCD screen that is inches away from your face will be weird. Try staring at a smartphone 2-3 inches away from your face for more than 2 minutes. Painfully draining.
 
Flynn said:
Kinect is the fastest selling consumer electronics device of all time.

Your ignorant if you believe your babbling.
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It's also likely had the fastest drop in sales from any device as well, when you sell more in your first six months than the following 18 plus months that kind of shows demand dried up quickly. It was also a mistake to build your next console around it when it's clear most people don't care to have it.
 
Intellivision said:
needing to stare at an LCD screen that is inches away from your face will be weird. Try staring at a smartphone 2-3 inches away from your face for more than 2 minutes. Painfully draining.
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I get cross-eyed.


ZQXePgH.jpg
 
Lol You guys will just have to try it. Remember there are optic lenses, not just a screen ya goofs.

If anyone is in the northeast ohio area and wants to try my rift next month, let me know I'd be happy to give a demo.
 
JinCA said:
It's also likely had the fastest drop in sales from any device as well, when you sell more in your first six months than the following 18 plus months that kind of shows demand dried up quickly. It was also a mistake to build your next console around it when it's clear most people don't care to have it.
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Nice assertions.

How about you back up those claims with empirical data?

Here's what I need data for:

1. It's also likely had the fastest drop in sales from any device as well (no evidence or proof given)
2. It's clear most people don't care to have it (no evidence or proof given)

But even if your assertions were true, JinCA, it wouldn't change the legitimacy and factual statements I made, which do indeed prove the post I was responding to false.
 
Flynn & JinCA, let's drop the Kinect discussion, please. Not really the topic...

Lucid Rifter said:
Lol You guys will just have to try it. Remember there are optic lenses, not just a screen ya goofs.
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lol, I admit I have no clue what I'm talking about. So it's two separate lenses, then? They're still two inches in front of my eyes, but at least it's separate eyes.
 
Andy said:
Flynn & JinCA, let's drop the Kinect discussion, please. Not really the topic...



lol, I admit I have no clue what I'm talking about. So it's two separate lenses, then? They're still two inches in front of my eyes, but at least it's separate eyes.
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Here is a breakdown of the original DK1 rift. There are A, B and C cup lenses that come with it depending on if you are near sighted/far sighted or regular. Each lense can pop out for each eye. So you get 2 As, 2 Bs, and 2 C lenses that you can pop in and out. The screen itself is also adjustable as far as how far away from your face. Almost like adjusting binoculars. As a side note, I expect some good news out of E3 concerning VR! Can't wait for mine to arrive. Also below is a video of a new experience developed for the rift that looks amazing.

18k77jvmbh4gejpg.jpg



 
Intellivision said:
Looks like to use the VR set, you need to buy Move too.

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no...

haven't you been following? the DualShock 4 has a light bar that comes standard on every controller. it also utilise internal sensors (accelerometer & gyroscope) to aid the light bar when tracked by the PS4 Camera. so,... in itself, the controller is already a Move device - just a more simplistic version of it. think of it as a Move for hardcore gamers rather than a Move for casuals.
 
@Rifter - man, he really enjoyed that demo. I've never heard someone that enthusiastic about a game. Pretty cool. Although I have to say, there wasn't much "game" there, more of just a visual experience. Looked like it was really enjoyable, though.

Thanks for explaining things. Each kit comes with three different lenses for each eye? That must drive up costs. I'm imagining that the retail model will have some way for the consumer to figure out which lens he/she needs. Then they could buy another set if they needed a different size.

Does Morpheus do the same thing, do you know (separate lenses, different types of lens, adjustments for distance)?
 
Andy said:
@Rifter - man, he really enjoyed that demo. I've never heard someone that enthusiastic about a game. Pretty cool. Although I have to say, there wasn't much "game" there, more of just a visual experience. Looked like it was really enjoyable, though.

Thanks for explaining things. Each kit comes with three different lenses for each eye? That must drive up costs. I'm imagining that the retail model will have some way for the consumer to figure out which lens he/she needs. Then they could buy another set if they needed a different size.

Does Morpheus do the same thing, do you know (separate lenses, different types of lens, adjustments for distance)?
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based on what was show of the prototype at GDC, it too support optic lens but it's array of view was slightly narrower to Rift.

http://www.roadtovr.com/sony-project-morpheus-dev-kits-delivered-early-june/

http://www.roadtovr.com/sony-project-morpheus-dev-kits-delivered-early-june/
 
I like the design, looks awesome! However, this is sony, they can't even bring out regular AAA games on time, much less this. Games going in 2015.. I mean 2017, when the ps4 is an ancient boat anchor in terms of tech
 
de3d1 said:
I like the design, looks awesome! However, this is sony, they can't even bring out regular AAA games on time, much less this. Games going in 2015.. I mean 2017, when the ps4 is an ancient boat anchor in terms of tech
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they were underestimated before and you saw how that turned out.

just a little food for thought.
 
Andy said:
@Rifter - man, he really enjoyed that demo. I've never heard someone that enthusiastic about a game. Pretty cool. Although I have to say, there wasn't much "game" there, more of just a visual experience. Looked like it was really enjoyable, though.

Thanks for explaining things. Each kit comes with three different lenses for each eye? That must drive up costs. I'm imagining that the retail model will have some way for the consumer to figure out which lens he/she needs. Then they could buy another set if they needed a different size.

Does Morpheus do the same thing, do you know (separate lenses, different types of lens, adjustments for distance)?
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Yeah the games are lacking right now due to pretty much only indie devs developing vr titles. It's still so early yet but I expect some AAA announcements tomorrow when E3 starts!

Morpheus does have replaceable lenses but it is uncertain if it will come with different kinds as they have not released any kind of dev kit yet. I'm not sure how the rift's retail model will look but I do know they have been putting a a lot of work into the lenses. The lenses for their dev kits have been pretty much the same since dev kit 1 so far and palmer Luckey has bee. Quoted saying they have advances there not yet shown to the public. So kind of wait and see as far as that goes. There might be a way to have one set of lenses and have software in the development kit to be able to calibrate for your own personal visual differences.

On a side note, we still need good vr input. The move is nice but not quite enough IMO. Here's a video of a new controlvr input that just launched their kickstarter. They'll be at E3 as well.

 
@Lucid Rifter

I spoke of this in [HASHTAG]#144[/HASHTAG]

"had Sony added gloves rather than the Move, then it makes holding the dualshock redundant and expensive while still lacking buttons when used solely. with the solution they've chosen, there is a Move on every controller (DualShock 4 and PS Move), which satisfies every user."

now this was their design: https://developer.oculusvr.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=932

but if you think about it in a FPS for example, and you have 15 different types of weapons or fire power on a single gun, there wouldn't be anyway to EFFICIENTLY select these options without everything seeming more cumbersome without buttons. this is why Kinect or a sole based camera solution doesn't work. with buttons, you have more options, and they work for everyone and every type of game.
 
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Shawn Jelsic said:
@ Lucid Rifter

I spoke of this in [HASHTAG]#144[/HASHTAG]

"had Sony added gloves rather than the Move, then it makes holding the dualshock redundant and expensive while still lacking buttons when used solely. with the solution they've chosen, there is a Move on every controller (DualShock 4 and PS Move), which satisfies every user."

now this was their design: https://developer.oculusvr.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=932

but if you think about it in a FPS for example, and you have 15 different types of weapons or fire power on a single gun, there wouldn't be anyway to EFFICIENTLY select these options without everything seeming more cumbersome without buttons. this is why Kinect or a sole based camera solution doesn't work. with buttons, you have more options, and they work for everyone and every type of game.
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The move is decent, a good start. But for excellent VR we need more than that. Tactile feed back, hand and finger control, low latency is going to be a must down the road. One problem right off the bat I see with the move is locomotion. You'd have to have a DS4 controller in one hand and a move in the other to strafe around intuitively. Using a controller in one hand to move around is rough enough when not blindfoleded by a HMD. If they had a joystick on the move itself, that'd help. Which would make it very much like the sixense input solution 'Stem' which is coming out soon for PC(maybe PS4). It can actually track feet movement as well.

wireless_banner1.jpg


Even this solution only gets us part of the way there. Input for VR is our biggest hurdle right now. I'd like to see something like this AND an optics based system tracking hands/fingers for now. Being able to look down and see your hands is the first thing people do when they try VR. Having 1 : 1 hand tracking is vital for VR to be fully realized. Just not sure how to do that with tactile feedback and keep it under $1000 haha.
 
Lucid Rifter said:
The move is decent, a good start. But for excellent VR we need more than that. Tactile feed back, hand and finger control, low latency is going to be a must down the road. One problem right off the bat I see with the move is locomotion. You'd have to have a DS4 controller in one hand and a move in the other to strafe around intuitively. Using a controller in one hand to move around is rough enough when not blindfoleded by a HMD. If they had a joystick on the move itself, that'd help. Which would make it very much like the sixense input solution 'Stem' which is coming out soon for PC(maybe PS4). It can actually track feet movement as well.

http://sixense.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/wireless_banner1.jpg

Even this solution only gets us part of the way there. Input for VR is our biggest hurdle right now. I'd like to see something like this AND an optics based system tracking hands/fingers for now. Being able to look down and see your hands is the first thing people do when they try VR. Having 1 : 1 hand tracking is vital for VR to be fully realized. Just not sure how to do that with tactile feedback and keep it under $1000 haha.
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I completely agree with you on this, which is why i never understood why a sphere was never added to the navigation controller, too. http://us.playstation.com/ps3/accessories/playstation-move-navigation-controller-ps3.html

of course Mark and Anton gave their own reasons why at the time, but i honestly think it had alot to do with cost while still trying to remain competitive with Nintendo's Wii controller combo and Microsoft's Kinect controller free promotioning ads.

it is said that they are looking into adding a form of navigation to the controllers but it won't be an analogue stick as it is not sufficient enough for VR . I think its Move controller with a T pad on it - kinda like the Steam controller or their Xperia Play below

http://images.techhive.com/images/article/2014/03/steam-controller-100251486-orig.jpg

http://cloud.tech-recipes.com/wp-content/uploads/keypad.jpg
 
de3d1 said:
Idk how they were underestimated, explain.
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there were alot of assumptions before these consoles were ever unveiled and launched. Sony remained the most coy of the three and so many from the original site drew biased conclusions based on this - astro being one of many. and just as i told him then, just because a competitor refuses to show you their hand when you want them to, don't assume that they haven't a strategy because of this. if you have been around long enough to notice, you'll know that Sony is notorious for doing just that.
 
Shawn Jelsic said:
there were alot of assumptions before these consoles were ever unveiled and launched. Sony remained the most coy of the three and so many from the original site drew biased conclusions based on this - astro being one of many. and just as i told him then, just because a competitor refuses to show you their hand when you want them to, don't assume that they haven't a strategy because of this. if you have been around long enough to notice, you'll know that Sony is notorious for doing just that.
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Well to be fair, sony has been more talk than anyone this generation. They started out good with all the talk at the prelaunch and got everyone onboard(me included), but since then its been nothing but promises and delays. I mean, lets go, its not like the ps4 is a powerful machine to begin with, we need to see the games asap before we get any deeper into the generation.
I disagree as well, sony is usually the first to show their cards, they show games way before MS or nintendo will. Granted they couldn't really do that with a console, that would just have been completely dumb, but thats over now, MS stands to gain a ton of ground imo, they are actually doing what sony said they would, which is odd. We'll see tomorrow, I expect sony to show a bunch of stuff that won't be out for 2 years with delays, maybe a couple of AAA games for next year. Hope I'm wrong.
 
de3d1 said:
Well to be fair, sony has been more talk than anyone this generation. They started out good with all the talk at the prelaunch and got everyone onboard(me included), but since then its been nothing but promises and delays. I mean, lets go, its not like the ps4 is a powerful machine to begin with, we need to see the games asap before we get any deeper into the generation.
I disagree as well, sony is usually the first to show their cards, they show games way before MS or nintendo will. Granted they couldn't really do that with a console, that would just have been completely dumb, but thats over now, MS stands to gain a ton of ground imo, they are actually doing what sony said they would, which is odd. We'll see tomorrow, I expect sony to show a bunch of stuff that won't be out for 2 years with delays, maybe a couple of AAA games for next year. Hope I'm wrong.
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LoL!

I'm not sure how i am suppose to take that. but you purchased a launch system. i'm sure you must have had SOME inkling of what you were getting into as this type of thing usually happens every single generation. its not uncommon in the least. so coming in thinking you were gonna get a last generation library right off the bat and no delay is kind of set up for failure.

what i can tell you is it generally takes a year from the time the console first launched to consistently pump out a robust catalogue since developers are usually eager around this time to take more risks and projects that were cooking around launch had enough time to mature. next time you should stick with the gen prior until after year drought. ;)

@ Lucid Rifter

I wasn't aware of this earlier, but i think my guess may have been closer to the truth than what I originally imagined :)

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/12/10/ps4-patent-shows-redesigned-ps-move-controller
 
Shawn Jelsic said:
LoL!

I'm not sure how i am suppose to take that. but you purchased a launch system. i'm sure you must have had SOME inkling of what you were getting into as this type of thing usually happens every single generation. its not uncommon in the least. so coming in thinking you were gonna get a last generation library right off the bat and no delay is kind of set up for failure.

what i can tell you is it generally takes a year from the time the console first launched to consistently pump out a robust catalogue since developers are usually eager around this time to take more risks and projects that were cooking around launch had enough time to mature. next time you should stick with the gen prior until after year drought. ;)

@ Lucid Rifter

I wasn't aware of this earlier, but i think my guess may have been closer to the truth than what I originally imagined :)

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/12/10/ps4-patent-shows-redesigned-ps-move-controller
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Well, considering i do know that a new console doesn't have an instant blockbuster lineup, the ps4 has fell short even then compared to XB1, which was supposed to be a TV console, somehow as shown them up with games. Or at the VERY least equaled their efforts.
Don't be defensive here, I'm a sony supporter, but I don't blindly defend them. They had plenty of time to prepare for the ps4, the ps3 was the longest generation ever for them.
 
de3d1 said:
Well, considering i do know that a new console doesn't have an instant blockbuster lineup, the ps4 has fell short even then compared to XB1, which was supposed to be a TV console, somehow as shown them up with games. Or at the VERY least equaled their efforts.
Don't be defensive here, I'm a sony supporter, but I don't blindly defend them. They had plenty of time to prepare for the ps4, the ps3 was the longest generation ever for them.
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Microsoft has always launched strong out of the gate with every single generation they've competed in while Sony has usually been the opposite. but where Sony is usually underestimated is long term in this regard. it generally takes them a year to get the ball rolling and then everything becomes consistent after that until that platform is discontinued.

from the PS1 to the PS3, this has been the same trend for them. the PS4 is no exception. the PS3 was a folding machine, the PS2 was a cheap DVD player, and the PS1 was just another dead Neo Geo or TurboGrapx 16 all due to the year drought. so i don't think its being defensive nor do try to be when I tell you that this is nothing unusual about the way these guys behave. its just that after countless years of seeing them play, i've learned not to underestimate them.
 
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Shawn Jelsic said:
Microsoft has always launched strong out of the gate with every single generation they've competed in while Sony has usually been the opposite. but where Sony is usually underestimated is long term in this regard. it generally takes them a year to get the ball rolling and then everything becomes consistent after that until that platform is discontinued.

from the PS1 to the PS3, this has been the same trend for them. the PS4 is no exception. the PS3 was a folding machine, the PS2 was a cheap DVD player, and the PS1 was just another dead Neo Geo or TurboGrapx 16 all due to the year drought. so i don't think its being defensive nor do try to be when I tell you that this is nothing unusual about the way these guys behave. its just that after countless years of seeing them play, i've learned not to underestimated them.
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The ps2 and ps1 were fvcking awesome consoles, miles better than ps3 imo. The ps3 wasn't a bad console either overall. So i disagree that sony has just been completely consistent, each console has been different. If anything the 360 reminded me of some of the older PS consoles MORE than ps3 did.
I can agree with your first paragraph, thats why I like having a MS upfront in a generation.
 
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