Numbers Discussion Thread

[Bgamer90]

Insignificant to you doesn't mean insignificant to the general public.

When someone sees a console that is $100 more, with weaker specs and includes some "new fangled doo dad" they don't completely understand it turns them off. This thread isn't about the validity of my opinions on the XB1, it's about sales and these factors ARE contributing to their lowered sales compared to a supply constrained competitor.

and a late launch? didn't XB1 launch like 10 days after PS4?




And the WiiU is the weakest this gen, your point?

The Wii was cheaper than the other two for a long, long time.



You know that and I know that but the general public sees "better on PS4" and "another game performs better on PS4" and "is the xbox one ever going to catch up to the PS4 in game visuals and performance" and guess what?

They want a PS4 instead of an XB1, because they want the "BEST"

The majority of people bought a PS2 AFTER the Xbox and GameCube released... Even though the latter two systems were the same price and/or cheaper with better looking multiplats.

Many people don't care much about a system's rank in power and/or visual quality in multiplats as long as they feel that they are getting a good overall value. The PS2 was viewed as a great value even though it was weaker than the competition and was more expensive (especially when you add in things such as the multitap, the network adapter, the memory card, etc --- add ons for features that were standard on the Xbox). This was because 1. The PS2 was a "next gen leap" above the consoles from its previous gen and 2. The system had an amazing library of games.

What's holding back the Xbox One right now is price and really else outside of that. $500 is too much for a gaming console in the eyes of a mainstream audience (even though the Xbox One is doing great for a console at $500 -- way better than any $500+ console in the past). $400 is the max acceptable price for mainstream. It doesn't have to do with the system's specs really -- I mean a lot of the controversy with its specs on hardcore gaming sites wouldn't even be as "controversial" if the system was the same price or cheaper than the PS4. Unlike the Wii U, the Xbox One is an actual "next gen leap" above the PS3 and 360, has great third party support, and is getting solid looking exclusives now and in the future. The system will be attractive to many once the price drops and all signs are pointing to it happening sometime this year.

The Ps4 and Xbox Ome should do really well this gen. PS4 should do better but anyone expecting the Ps4 to have a "PS2 like dominance" needs to relax a bit (haha).

 

[TOPDAWG]

Perception > reality. There's definitely an anti-MS sentiment out there. Even the average consumer out there who never visits a place like this has to be impacted by it.

It started with the DRM debacle which even casuals heard a lot about and keeps going on. Combine the higher price and it doesn't surprise me one bit that MS is behind Sony.

How long did it take sony to recover from the high price and you'll get a 2nd job to buy PS3?I remember it being years before they got their good name back. s*** it did not happen till ps4 as before the price was said people were wondering would Sony go high price again.

So even up to that point people did not trust sony not to f*** it up. MS pulled a sony and did everything wrong they could do wrong. It will be some time before they earn that good well back.

 

[TOPDAWG]

MS beleived in their vision of tv carrying the xbox and kinect being a part of that experience. Talked about it before, but they shouldn't have tested the market with the first Kinect and they would have had that hype to help with the tv plan they originally had. It may be very unfortunate for them to have released the first kinect because with the hype it had and eventually all but mostly deflated, plus the integrated tv stuff of the x1, it may have actually been the go to device for tv and movies as they originally wanted.

MS wants the gaming market share they'd ad with 360 but also wants the market share apple has with video and music so they made the One do both. Till you can use the One as you cable box f*** that tv s***. I don't have cable but if I did s*** if I want to run a cable box then my One on top of that. With a s***ty 500GB drive you can't change good luck using One as a PVR Plus gaming system you'll run out of space fast. Yes I know you can hook up a external HD but there goes more cost.

 

[starseeker]

The majority of people bought a PS2 AFTER the Xbox and GameCube released... Even though the latter two systems were the same price and/or cheaper with better looking multiplats.

Many people don't care much about a system's rank in power and/or visual quality in multiplats as long as they feel that they are getting a good overall value. The PS2 was viewed as a great value even though it was weaker than the competition and was more expensive (especially when you add in things such as the multitap, the network adapter, the memory card, etc --- add ons for features that were standard on the Xbox). This was because 1. The PS2 was a "next gen leap" above the consoles from its previous gen and 2. The system had an amazing library of games.

What's holding back the Xbox One right now is price and really else outside of that. $500 is too much for a gaming console in the eyes of a mainstream audience (even though the Xbox One is doing great for a console at $500 -- way better than any $500+ console in the past). $400 is the max acceptable price for mainstream. It doesn't have to do with the system's specs really -- I mean a lot of the controversy with its specs on hardcore gaming sites wouldn't even be as "controversial" if the system was the same price or cheaper than the PS4. Unlike the Wii U, the Xbox One is an actual "next gen leap" above the PS3 and 360, has great third party support, and is getting solid looking exclusives now and in the future. The system will be attractive to many once the price drops and all signs are pointing to it happening sometime this year.

The Ps4 and Xbox Ome should do really well this gen. PS4 should do better but anyone expecting the Ps4 to have a "PS2 like dominance" needs to relax a bit (haha).

The PS2 has far more games, a bigger Console brand (then) & MS was a new comer, coming a year later. They did not set off at equal footing.

But X1 & PS4 started off as equal footing as you can get, launched almost same time, popularity are almost equal (base on sales), games are expected to be 90% similar make up mainly of Multiplat. So the only main things that separate them are price & spec.

 

[Bgamer90]

The PS2 has far more games, a bigger Console brand (then) & MS was a new comer, coming a year later. They did not set off at equal footing.

But X1 & PS4 started off as equal footing as you can get, launched almost same time, popularity are almost equal (base on sales), games are expected to be 90% similar make up mainly of Multiplat. So the only main things that separate them are price & spec.

Yes definitely. All I'm saying is that a console's rank in specs and/or multiplatform game performance doesn't matter much if people feel that a system is a good value with good content. $500 is too much for mainstream regardless of specs. The PS4 would still be doing better than the Xbox One if the Xbox One had better specs. The PS4 is more attractive to many simply because it's the cheapest console to play (new) current gen multiplats which therefore makes it a better value in the eyes of many (mainstream) gamers. The Xbox One will be more attractive for many once it hits $400 (or less) alongside a bigger library of games.

 

[IdleHands]

Wii shows power difference is insignificant. The power difference between the Xbox One and PlayStation 4 is nowhere near the difference of the Wii and the Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3.

Late launch in the remaining countries which is what was being discussed.

What you and a lot of others are failing to understand is that:

A) YOU and I understand that, so does most everyone on these forums.
B) Joe sick-pack weekend CODwarrior doesn't get that
C) He just knows "Option B is cheaper and more powerful, cause his gamer friends told him so".

Wait for the "If you want Best, you should get a PC!" comments.

I've already got the best, that's been well established.

The majority of people bought a PS2 AFTER the Xbox and GameCube released... Even though the latter two systems were the same price and/or cheaper with better looking multiplats.
.

Bad example is bad.
Nintendo (back then) was widely thought of as "the kiddie console" and Xbox was new and from Microsoft and "they make that terrible windows crap that's always crashing on me".

Honestly, I don't know at this point if I'm being trolled or if some of you are actively trying to ignore the reality of consumer perception.

 

[Bgamer90]

What you and a lot of others are failing to understand is that:

A) YOU and I understand that, so does most everyone on these forums.
B) Joe sick-pack weekend CODwarrior doesn't get that
C) He just knows "Option B is cheaper and more powerful, cause his gamer friends told him so".

So casuals know more about the power difference than people who actually follow up on games? Ehh... Don't know about that.

Bad example is bad.
Nintendo (back then) was widely thought of as "the kiddie console" and Xbox was new and from Microsoft and "they make that terrible windows crap that's always crashing on me".

Heh, you say my example is bad only to further prove my point that a system's specs and/or multiplatform quality rank doesn't fully determine why general audiences become attracted to certain consoles.

Honestly, I don't know at this point if I'm being trolled or if some of you are actively trying to ignore the reality of consumer perception.

All the consumer really sees is the difference in price. Both consoles have similar libraries of games. Many will therefore (obviously) go for the cheaper option.

Even though that's true, the Xbox One is still selling better than any console released in previous gens in the same time period (though not as well as PS4, again, mainly due to price) so I don't see how anyone here is "ignoring the reality of consumer perception". The system obviously has appeal but would get/have even more appeal if it was cheaper. That's pretty much all that me (and others) are saying.

 

[jimmyD]

It is a marathon not a sprint. Look @ ps3 how it started out and how it ended. As far as the gap goes both sony and MS will make money this gen same as last gen I'm sure. Console gaming hasn't been a hobby for 20 years? It is pretty mainstream and unless sony holds 80% of the market MS may arguably make more $/console then sony when it is all said and done. Why grown adults care about which toy sells better by 10-20%???

 

[starseeker]

It is a marathon not a sprint. Look @ ps3 how it started out and how it ended. As far as the gap goes both sony and MS will make money this gen same as last gen I'm sure. Console gaming hasn't been a hobby for 20 years? It is pretty mainstream and unless sony holds 80% of the market MS may arguably make more $/console then sony when it is all said and done. Why grown adults care about which toy sells better by 10-20%???

Its closer to 40-60% now, (7m-4.5m/4.5m=55%) & the gap are widening base on the graph. Of course releasing in more regions will hopefully narrowwed the gap. If 10-20%, which is ideally the case. Then its no biggy.

Also the amount of goodies for the toy is related to the market share, & total volume sold.
A console is not a self contain device, like car. If the car I buy sold more, it doen't affect my car. But a console is a device that runs apps/games made by external parties (mainly), where the amount of content is related to sales & market share.

If market share are close (within 30%), then you have similar amount of toys.

 

[jimmyD]

Its closer to 40-60% now, (7m-4.5m/4.5m=55%) & the gap are widening base on the graph. Of course releasing in more regions will hopefully narrowwed the gap. If 10-20%, which is ideally the case. Then its no biggy.

Also the amount of goodies for the toy is related to the market share, & total volume sold.
A console is not a self contain device, like car. If the car I buy sold more, it doen't affect my car. But a console is a device that runs apps/games made by external parties (mainly), where the amount of content is related to sales & market share.

If market share are close (within 30%), then you have similar amount of toys.

The more sony takes the better. It will make MS that much more hungry next gen. I'd be surprised if the gap was over 30% by the end of the gen. Look @ how ps3 started and ended. Too many great exclusives on both sides not to pick up both systems by the end of the gen if you're a true gamer.

 

[Jackie_Fhan]

Microsoft just released their official earnings for the first quarter of 2014 (January through the end of March).

In the report, they noted that 1.2 million Xbox One's were sold during the period (2 million total Xbox units).

http://www.microsoft.com/investor/E...s/PressReleaseAndWebcast/FY14/Q3/default.aspx

I'f I'm or others are looking at it right, that would make 4.2 X1's sold up to April.

That could be wrong though, it could just be 1.2 sold to retailers, which would actually mean retailers have been buying a LOT less. So, the actual number of X1's sold to consumers could be higher. No idea..... right now.

Technically I guess this isn't news at all in some ways. They already said in 13' they shipped 3.9 X'1s so with 1.2 that should bring us near their 5 million figure they said during last npd.

 

[JinCA]

4.2 million was pretty much what I had guessed they had sold, so PS4 is just under 3 million ahead. People will say "well it's only 3 million" but when you look at it as a percentage it's a large lead, of course we have a long way to go but I doubt Sony could have dreamed of a better start for the PS4.

 

[JinCA]

People bringing up the Wii and saying specs don't matter seem to forget that Nintendo sold to a ton of consoles to people who wouldn't consider themselves gamers and aren't likely to buy another console in the future. It was cheap enough and unique enough to appeal to people who find the types of games most of us play unappealing. The software attach rate was fairly low on the Wii, hell with nearly 100 million consoles sold they didn't even have a Zelda game break 7 million in sales. Specs do matter to the traditional gamer, multiplat performance does matter to the traditional gamer, getting both of those included for a lower price will appeal more to the traditional gamer. The X1 dropping in price later may not end up mattering much if Sony is able to attract enough Xbox converts into their ecosystem, as I said before Sony deciding to charge for online play was a smart move because a lot of people are going to be unwilling to pay for 2 separate online services.

 

[DriedMangoes]

Microsoft just released their official earnings for the first quarter of 2014 (January through the end of March).

In the report, they noted that 1.2 million Xbox One's were sold during the period (2 million total Xbox units).

http://www.microsoft.com/investor/E...s/PressReleaseAndWebcast/FY14/Q3/default.aspx

I'f I'm or others are looking at it right, that would make 4.2 X1's sold up to April.

That could be wrong though, it could just be 1.2 sold to retailers, which would actually mean retailers have been buying a LOT less. So, the actual number of X1's sold to consumers could be higher. No idea..... right now.

Technically I guess this isn't news at all in some ways. They already said in 13' they shipped 3.9 X'1s so with 1.2 that should bring us near their 5 million figure they said during last npd.

Sold-in 2 million Xbox console units (prob including 360) and they specifically said 1.2 million Xbox One's so sold to consumers could be less than that. So who knows? The estimation of 3.9-4.2 million units still stands, it seems.

 

[penguinpig]

nearly a million consoles just sitting on shelves cant be good. no wnoder retailers are offering up those packaged deals.

 

[consolewarz]

Those are shipped numbers. 3.9 mil shipped by Dec 31 2013, another 1.2 mil shipped by Mar 31 2014. 5.1 total, which is close to their recently announced shipped numbers.

 

[Andy]

That could be wrong though, it could just be 1.2 sold to retailers

Yeah, it is. Those are "sold in" or sold-to-retailers numbers. So it's 3.9 + 1.2 = 5.1 million sold to retail (pretty much what was already announced). Or you could take 3.0 (their sold through/customer number at the end of last quarter) and add it to 1.2 = 4.2, although that's sort of apples plus oranges (sold to customers plus sold to retail). If you want apples plus apples, then you can subtract 20% from the 1.2 (removing the ones still sitting on shelves), and you get a sold through number about 4.0 (3.0 + 1). Math is fun.

 

[starseeker]

The more sony takes the better. It will make MS that much more hungry next gen. I'd be surprised if the gap was over 30% by the end of the gen. Look @ how ps3 started and ended. Too many great exclusives on both sides not to pick up both systems by the end of the gen if you're a true gamer.

There are a lot of factors. Both need to work hard, if not momentum will be gone. MS just a little harder if tehy wanted to gain back more market share.

 

[Nervusbreakdown]

You guys are still at it with this?

This should be closed.

 

[DriedMangoes]

There are a lot of factors. Both need to work hard, if not momentum will be gone. MS just a little harder if tehy wanted to gain back more market share.

Best way to gain momentum, drop the price!

 

[Kvally]

5.1 million sold is good.

 

[illiniguy]

5.1 million sold is good.

c'mon man.. you are baiting the in hand vs. sold to retailer crowd again. LOL Glass half empty/full type of posters here.

My take on it, pretty simply put... 5.1 million to retailers, good for MS. Those consoles in customers hands, good for retailers. MS makes no secondary sales revenue if they sell thru to gamers other than their software sales. To them, the console sold to retailers is the only reportable number they can reliably produce with and sort of verifiable figures. Sold thru to consumers is always good, but MS's part in that is moot... it is up to retailers at that point to recoup their investment. With only a handful of places even willing to report sold thru numbers, those numbers being tossed around are only mere assumptions based on fuzzy math.

You and i know, when MS reports sold numbers that is to retail, and IS the sale for MS. After that, it is sold thru.

 

[Viktor]

You guys are still at it with this?

This should be closed.

Oops your plastic is losing.

 

[Bgamer90]

. Specs do matter to the traditional gamer, multiplat performance does matter to the traditional gamer, getting both of those included for a lower price will appeal more to the traditional gamer.

Specs mainly matter in the sense that the majority of consumers want games that are improvements over what they played on their old last gen consoles if they are getting a new console (hence why the Wii U is having such a hard time).

The rank/position of that said new console when it comes to power and/or mulitplatform game performance doesn't matter much as long as it meets the requirement I stated above. If it did matter then the Playstation brand wouldn't be so big/popular considering the fact that the PS4 is the very first Playstation console to have the best running multiplats within its gen. The past almost 20 years of the Playstation brand (PS1, PS2, and PS3) never had the best multiplats.

So overall, "huge leap over last gen" + solid games + solid features + good price are what matters to mainstream consumers the most. The PS4 has all of those qualities. The Xbox One has 3 of the 4... $500 is too much for a game console in the eyes of many (potential) consumers. The console needs a price drop.

 

[JinCA]

Specs mainly matter in the sense that the majority of consumers want games that are improvements over what they played on their old last gen consoles if they are getting a new console (hence why the Wii U is having such a hard time).

The rank/position of that said new console when it comes to power and/or mulitplatform game performance doesn't matter much as long as it meets the requirement I stated above. If it did matter then the Playstation brand wouldn't be so big/popular considering the fact that the PS4 is the very first Playstation console to have the best running multiplats within its gen. The past almost 20 years of the Playstation brand (PS1, PS2, and PS3) never had the best multiplats.

So overall, "huge leap over last gen" + solid games + solid features + good price are what matters to mainstream consumers the most. The PS4 has all of those qualities. The Xbox One has 3 of the 4... $500 is too much for a game console in the eyes of many (potential) consumers. The console needs a price drop.

I'm not really convinced a price drop will change things significantly for the X1, they had price drops all of last month and were giving their biggest game of the year away free which basically was a $110 price drop when those things are factored together yet their average weekly sales were slightly lower than the previous month.

 

[Andy]

You guys are still at it with this?

This should be closed.

Don't see why. Discussion is pretty reasonable, for the most part.

 

[Bgamer90]

I'm not really convinced a price drop will change things significantly for the X1, they had price drops all of last month and were giving their biggest game of the year away free which basically was a $110 price drop when those things are factored together yet their average weekly sales were slightly lower than the previous month.

1. Average weekly sales were lower than previous month mainly because there were more weeks in March in comparison to February. Many people who were buying an Xbox One in March waited to do so when Titanfall released (basically the middle of March).

2. Just imagine how the Xbox One would have sold without the price drop of the bundle. It helped. It just didn't put the system over the PS4. On top of that, the price drop "promotion" wasn't in effect during the whole month and neither was it available everywhere (all stores). More people will be moving to next gen this fall. Sales will pick up as more games come out that will make the game library of the console more varied and they will pick up more alongside an (inevitable) price drop.

Price matters greatly right now because more than 85% of the retail games on both consoles are exactly the same games. So obviously, people will go for the cheaper console to play those games. This will change though as the libraries for both consoles become more different which each attracting different audiences alongside (as I said before) inevitable official price drops.

 

[TOPDAWG]

c'mon man.. you are baiting the in hand vs. sold to retailer crowd again. LOL Glass half empty/full type of posters here.

My take on it, pretty simply put... 5.1 million to retailers, good for MS. Those consoles in customers hands, good for retailers. MS makes no secondary sales revenue if they sell thru to gamers other than their software sales. To them, the console sold to retailers is the only reportable number they can reliably produce with and sort of verifiable figures. Sold thru to consumers is always good, but MS's part in that is moot... it is up to retailers at that point to recoup their investment. With only a handful of places even willing to report sold thru numbers, those numbers being tossed around are only mere assumptions based on fuzzy math.

You and i know, when MS reports sold numbers that is to retail, and IS the sale for MS. After that, it is sold thru.

MS does not make much money off selling the consoles to retailers they did say they made a small profit so 1 million of them sitting on shelves is not a good thing and can't be spined into a good thing. they need that game cut and live money and all that good stuff that comes with selling a system to be healthy.

 

[JinCA]

1. Average weekly sales were lower than previous month mainly because there were more weeks in March in comparison to February. Many people who we're buying an Xbox One in March waited to do so when Titanfall released (basically the middle of March).

2. Just imagine how the Xbox One would have sold without the price drop of the bundle. It helped. It just didn't put the system over the PS4. On top of that, the price drop "promotion" wasn't in effect during the whole month and neither was it available everywhere (all stores). More people will be moving to next gen this fall. Sales will pick up as more games come out that will make the lame library of the console more varied and they will pick up more alongside an (inevitable price drop).

Price matters greatly right now because more than 85% of the retail games on both consoles are exactly the same. So obviously, people will go for the cheaper console to play those games. This will change though as the libraries for both consoles become more different which each having appeal to different audiences alongside side (as I said before) inevitable official price drops.

The price drop was available at what seems to be most of the major retailers (other than gamestop, not sure they did it there) but the game was given away for free everywhere which is still basically a $60 cut. As far as the price drop not being available all month that's true, it started the week or so after TF came out which leads me to believe those bundles weren't moving at the numbers they had hoped and that's why the cuts were initiated in the first place. The price drop did probably help to a degree but again they had an extra week tracking time with NPD and only sold 53k more consoles than the previous month. You would think with a price cut through much of the month and their biggest game of the year packed in for free (I know some dispute this but a halo 2 remake or Sunset Overdrive are not going to get the hype TF did) that the console would have been selling at a faster pace than the month before not slower.

 

[Bgamer90]

You would think with though with a price cut through much of the month and their biggest game of the year packed in for free (I know some dispute this but a halo 2 remake or Sunset Overdrive are not going to get the hype TF did) that the console would have been selling at a faster pace than the month before not slower.

As I said before, it would have if March had the same number of full weeks as February.

Bigger denominator (in this case, the # of days in both months) = smaller number. If there were exactly 4 weeks in March, the the Xbox One would have sold over 13,000 more consoles per week in March.

I mean, for all we know, the sales of the Xbox One during the beginning of March were possibly very very small, which would make sense considering that there was no point in getting the regular Xbox One when there was a bundle coming with a free game some days/weeks later.