Official Thread Pillow Fight that nobody wins with MOAR Jackie Chan and guys comfortable with STRETCHING their sexuality!

[DriedMangoes]

Last Christmas time and Samsung is a bunch of twatwaffles so they never enabled hdmi 2.1, but otherwise it's quite nice. We upgrade rarely, so we spent a bit.

I bought the Sony X950g on Black Friday last year too. It was a really good price so I didn't wait for VRR. Been really happy with the purchase so far as I've been able to install this year 's (x950h) firmware on it so it's basically a x950h as the hardware is virtually the same.

 

[Two Pennys Worth]

Happy with my OLED. No 4K/120 no VRR. Won’t be buying a new tv in the next 5 years for sure.

 

[Kerosene31]

A lot of Xbox fans were bashing the PS5 when it was revealed to be 10.3 tflops theoretical peak so it's more of a statement for the PS5 than a bash on MS. People knew the XSX was a good powerful console with all the marketing they put out but a lot of people thought the PS5 was some form of underpowered machine that would be turning to its games and exclusives to help with appeal. Turns out the PS5 is plenty powerful as we see in these launch next gen games.

Yep, they'll both be fine. As far as launch game issues go, these are pretty minor. I remember all sorts of crazy issues at X1/PS4 launch.

 

[Dno69]

It's like saying the Resident Evil remakes aren't new games.
Technically no.
But practically yes.

 

[Frozpot]

It's like saying the Resident Evil remakes aren't new games.
Technically no.
But practically yes.

Not sure even that is quite the same. Resident evil 2 radically changed the gameplay. Different controls, level layout, puzzles. DS videos are compared scene for scene. They even run the original code under it. More apt comparison would be Halo 2 anniversary, I'd think.

 

[hrudey]

Not sure even that is quite the same. Resident evil 2 radically changed the gameplay. Different controls, level layout, puzzles. DS videos are compared scene for scene. They even run the original code under it. More apt comparison would be Halo 2 anniversary, I'd think.

For the point I am making at least that's absolutely the right comparison (and honestly it was a smart-ass shot at Mangoes for saying he didn't get the PS5 to play old games, not a statement that there's no value in them). Nobody gets the next gen for old games, but we know that GTA V will end up being the most played hand anyways.

 

[Rollins]

Expected, for both

 

[JinCA]

Lets say hypothetically AC: Valhalla is what it is in terms of what they can squeeze out of the Series X, they still should offer other modes. I would probably rather have locked 30 FPS with no screen tearing and native 4K if that is the best they can do.

It sounds like if Ubisoft would make some adjustments and let the res lower a bit more it would fix that, at least that's what the DF guys seem to think. In time they'll get a better handle on both consoles and things will get better and better especially when older gen machines are left behind, sadly it sounds like that's still going to be a while.

Nobody should think AC is representative of the most either of these consoles can do, it's a cross-gen third party launch game that had no mention of 60fps until people online threw a fit about it originally being announced as 30fps. I'm still of the opinion that once things really get going games are going to be so close graphically that the "power gap" is going to be virtually meaningless. I don't expect PS5 to always have a 15% framerate performance advantage or higher res advantage I think they'll probably both be pretty much on par with each other. I know AC isn't the only game where the PS5 is outperforming the Series X right now, it seems like in most of the comparisons it has an advantage but its not night and day so people really shouldn't worry too much about it.

 

[JinCA]

Expected, for both

I don't expect them too either, I think we all know it takes about 2-3 years after launch to really start seeing that kind of stuff.

 

[JinCA]

Not to mention devs first received the GDk only in June.

They had other GDK's it says that lol that is just the sort of "finished" one and it's totally common for those not to go out until July/August that isn't late, devs always complain about that and have pretty much ever gen before this one as well.

 

[TeKPhaN]

Happy with my OLED. No 4K/120 no VRR. Won’t be buying a new tv in the next 5 years for sure.

GL

 

[TeKPhaN]

No. From what is known the SX is running on a gimped SDK with most devs not receiving the updated SDK which brings significant gains. Unless you think 10 is more than 12? yes simples.

It's foolish to think 10.3 vs 12.1 is the only factor and yes for what matters the most(what you see and play) PS5 is superior.

 

[TeKPhaN]

The bottom line in all of this is that Microsoft have a lot to prove. Not only in terms of creating new exciting IP's, but also now on the power front.

You can't make the claim of "most powerful console" and then under deliver for whatever reason/s.

They don't claim that. They claim the most powerful Xbox.

 

[wshowers]

They didn't change it. They still say the most powerful console ever, as well as their most powerful console.

November 10, 2020:

Power Your Dreams: Xbox Series X and Xbox Series S Now Available Worldwide - Xbox Wire

Experience the thrill of gaming at 120 frames per second, with faster loading times, richer, more dynamic worlds and much more on Xbox Series X, our fastest most powerful console ever, and Xbox Series S, delivering next-generation performance at an affordable price in the smallest Xbox ever...

news.xbox.com

Of interest in that article as well is this:



Note that they talk about Destiny 2 Beyond Light and Call of Duty Black Ops Cold War launching. But say nothing about the graphics. Then the next sentence they say : "When Cyberpunk 2077 launches on December 10, it will look and play best on our next gen consoles"

They didn't say that about Destiny and COD. Maybe Cyberpunk has had more time with the GDK and they already knew this?

I believe Cyberpunk will run equally fine in BC mode on both the PS5 and Series X. The Base PS4 and XBO might melt though.

I bought the Sony X950g on Black Friday last year too. It was a really good price so I didn't wait for VRR. Been really happy with the purchase so far as I've been able to install this year 's (x950h) firmware on it so it's basically a x950h as the hardware is virtually the same.

I've got the same TV. Have not felt the urge to buy a new tv at all.

 

[TeKPhaN]

Bad example. You should be using BioShock vs the remastered BioShock, for example. If the gameplay is identical with graphical and quality of life changes, it's the same game. It may play better, load faster, and be generally more enjoyable, but if this is true:


Then the *GAME* is the same. The presentation is improved. The quality of life is improved. It's still impressive. But it's not a new game.

The layout is the same but the visuals and audio are completely new as is the amount of online players.
You lose in this argument/claim.

Spiderman MM(bundle) is what you should be mentioning as it's a higher resolution/FPS with a few extra effects Anti-Consumer/cash grab.

MS did the same thing with Gears 5(even gave new free content) but didn't charge.
Pro-Consumer

 

[Frozpot]

It sounds like if Ubisoft would make some adjustments and let the res lower a bit more it would fix that, at least that's what the DF guys seem to think. In time they'll get a better handle on both consoles and things will get better and better especially when older gen machines are left behind, sadly it sounds like that's still going to be a while.

Nobody should think AC is representative of the most either of these consoles can do, it's a cross-gen third party launch game that had no mention of 60fps until people online threw a fit about it originally being announced as 30fps. I'm still of the opinion that once things really get going games are going to be so close graphically that the "power gap" is going to be virtually meaningless. I don't expect PS5 to always have a 15% framerate performance advantage or higher res advantage I think they'll probably both be pretty much on par with each other. I know AC isn't the only game where the PS5 is outperforming the Series X right now, it seems like in most of the comparisons it has an advantage but its not night and day so people really shouldn't worry too much about it.

We really shouldn't be surprised given that both were built by amd and they both cost the same. The difference should be minimal. I actually expect more of a difference in loading given the nature of diminishing returns from visuals.

That said, I still expect sony to have the edge in loading and ms to have it in raytracing when it all shakes out.

 

[Frozpot]

"Xbox Series X, the most powerful next-generation console, empowers developers to deliver on their creative visions and dreams"

From the link Hedon provided. I mean on paper they are not wrong. The specs do suggest Xbox should have an advantage over the ps5.

Hmm. Every time I looked at it on their site the said xbox, or our. Is your quote from MS or from an article "quoting" them? Journalists suck at their jobs, after all.

 

[DriedMangoes]

Hmm. Every time I looked at it on their site the said xbox, or our. Is your quote from MS or from an article "quoting" them? Journalists suck at their jobs, after all.

Power Your Dreams: Xbox Series X and Xbox Series S Now Available Worldwide - Xbox Wire

Experience the thrill of gaming at 120 frames per second, with faster loading times, richer, more dynamic worlds and much more on Xbox Series X, our fastest most powerful console ever, and Xbox Series S, delivering next-generation performance at an affordable price in the smallest Xbox ever...

news.xbox.com

They say "our" on top, then say "the most" in the article, confusing.

 

[karmakid]

Expected, for both

i thought we’d have to wait till 2025 at the earliest, he said they’ll continue to support ps4 for five more years

 

[DriedMangoes]

For the point I am making at least that's absolutely the right comparison (and honestly it was a smart-ass shot at Mangoes for saying he didn't get the PS5 to play old games, not a statement that there's no value in them). Nobody gets the next gen for old games, but we know that GTA V will end up being the most played hand anyways.

For all the intents and purposes in my old post, Demon's Souls Remake is considered a new game, it's newly launched on November 12, 2020 and was never released prior to that date. When I meant old in the previous post, I meant all the games that were already released last gen and beyond, not whether a game was fundamentally the same or not. It's the same as me considering Resident Evil 1, 2, and 3 remakes as new games in the sense that work and effort has been put into it to make it look the way it is in those versions of the game. Like I said, I don't buy a new next-gen console to play older games (as in BC games that were released prior to launch date). Demon's Souls Remake is not an old game in that context. Do I have to make myself so clear? Jeez.

 

[DriedMangoes]

Expected, for both

 

[JinCA]

We really shouldn't be surprised given that both were built by amd and they both cost the same. The difference should be minimal. I actually expect more of a difference in loading given the nature of diminishing returns from visuals.

That said, I still expect sony to have the edge in loading and ms to have it in raytracing when it all shakes out.

It could be how it turns out but I don't think either will be a big enough advantage to brag about. I've always said I think the advantage in the SSD speeds will be when it comes to getting higher detail things on the screen faster, when it comes to loading up games from the menu etc I doubt it'll be more than a couple of seconds difference for the most part. It is crazy when you see how fast the first party games on PS5 load compared to 3rd, I mean AC Valhalla loads a lot faster than it did on old consoles but Spider-Man and Demon's Souls are almost cartridge level speeds.

 

[Frozpot]

Power Your Dreams: Xbox Series X and Xbox Series S Now Available Worldwide - Xbox Wire

Experience the thrill of gaming at 120 frames per second, with faster loading times, richer, more dynamic worlds and much more on Xbox Series X, our fastest most powerful console ever, and Xbox Series S, delivering next-generation performance at an affordable price in the smallest Xbox ever...

news.xbox.com

They say "our" on top, then say "the most" in the article, confusing.

View attachment 4381

Yeah but they are talking about the two new consoles they have. The most powerful of the two? I noticed many times them saying our and xbox, and then everyone else speaking in terms of everything.

 

[DriedMangoes]

Yeah but they are talking about the two new consoles they have. The most powerful of the two? I noticed many times them saying our and xbox, and then everyone else speaking in terms of everything.

I don't know. Like you said, it's up to interpretation. If they used the most powerful Xbox ever consistently it'd be easier to not get mixed up. Or, they could be meaning both. Their most powerful Xbox ever, and then they also add and claim it's the most powerful next-gen console.

 

[TeKPhaN]

XSX wins the early round.
I do think both could unlock more as HDMI 2.1 is young.

 

[DriedMangoes]

XSX wins the early round.
I do think both could unlock more as HDMI 2.1 is young.

This only affects games that are native 4k/120hz right ?

Still full 4:4:4 at 4k 60hz or dynamic 4k 120hz?

 

[OneBadMutha]

I questioned FoxyGamesUK's credibility on the power front. So far, he's been accurate.

Or was NXgamer? I get the two confused.

No this isn't a power issue. The games running on the XDK that are just brute forcing are getting great results. Games running on the GDK are doing some weird stuff to the CPU. It will eventually go in the other direction. There's an issue with the GDK. Some of the other RDNA2 features like Direct ML will take a long time to bear fruit but within a few months, we should see a working SFS put this in the rearview mirror.

I don't like to engage in the power talk anymore because it's not that exciting (although the features are) but a dev working on a very big, demanding game said not to read into Valhalla, Watch Dogs or Yakuza. There are far more impressive, demanding games in the pipeline and I haven't heard a single bad thing about the Xbox hardware. Not one peep of concerns of hardware bottlenecks. Only issues with it's first wave of tools. Barely anyone will remember these issues in 6 months.
Regardless, gamers should just focus on the platform/s with the games, controller and services they like. As a pair, these are the most balanced pieces of hardware we've had in a console gen.

 

[OneBadMutha]

I found a post that does a better job explaining this. I haven't been able to find anyone debunking this. Also it's very much in line with multiple things I've heard and what I just said above. Right now XDK games not trying to tap into RDNA2 are out-performing GDK games. It's from a game dev on Eurogamer:


Native Series X|S games have to be built in an entirely new development environment. As such, the tools aren't quite as mature as the old one. DF had that exactly right (they've spoken to enough of us, tbh). It's also why you'll see some games patching a simple FPS increase (Rocket League, Star Wars Squadrons), because they are using the game running old code, where we have the ability to utilise most of the system's raw power, but none of its new RDNA2 features. You can literally input a fairly simple patch and pretty much guarantee a 2x FPS performance from the One X version at a similar performance level. In some cases, even games that are said to be optimised for X|S (like Ori) are still using their Xbox One code, with some work on top (hence why it runs at a mad 4k/60 on the Series S!)

Yes, there are migration tools to help move the code across, but the reality is that this is very new for most developers, and it's going to take a bit of time to get used to, and MS have some work still to do. The PS5 on the other hand is effectively an evolution of the existing dev environment, so it's much, much more familiar, and much easier to work with at the moment.

To clear up something that should be obvious - the Series X has more power under the hood than the PS5. There's no escaping that. PS5 is a fantastic console, but there is a difference there. It's likely that for many games over the coming few months, you are likely to see a similar disparity between platforms, particularly big AAA releases (though Cyberpunk may be different - they've been working closely with MS), but in time - and not all that far into the future, you'll start to see the pendulum swing the other way.

Now, that gap is not likely to be huge (Think One X/PS4 Pro), but there is a performance delta there, and I have no doubt it'll be evident within a year or so, particularly for any games being built from the ground up on next gen hardware (which we've not seen any of for Xbox just yet).

Hope that puts a few things to bed. I don't expect this to resonate with anyone who wishes to continue the "my box is better than yours" fight, but I thought it was worth sharing.

 

[Two Pennys Worth]

I found a post that does a better job explaining this. I haven't been able to find anyone debunking this. Also it's very much in line with multiple things I've heard and what I just said above. Right now XDK games not trying to tap into RDNA2 are out-performing GDK games. It's from a game dev on Eurogamer:


Native Series X|S games have to be built in an entirely new development environment. As such, the tools aren't quite as mature as the old one. DF had that exactly right (they've spoken to enough of us, tbh). It's also why you'll see some games patching a simple FPS increase (Rocket League, Star Wars Squadrons), because they are using the game running old code, where we have the ability to utilise most of the system's raw power, but none of its new RDNA2 features. You can literally input a fairly simple patch and pretty much guarantee a 2x FPS performance from the One X version at a similar performance level. In some cases, even games that are said to be optimised for X|S (like Ori) are still using their Xbox One code, with some work on top (hence why it runs at a mad 4k/60 on the Series S!)

Yes, there are migration tools to help move the code across, but the reality is that this is very new for most developers, and it's going to take a bit of time to get used to, and MS have some work still to do. The PS5 on the other hand is effectively an evolution of the existing dev environment, so it's much, much more familiar, and much easier to work with at the moment.

To clear up something that should be obvious - the Series X has more power under the hood than the PS5. There's no escaping that. PS5 is a fantastic console, but there is a difference there. It's likely that for many games over the coming few months, you are likely to see a similar disparity between platforms, particularly big AAA releases (though Cyberpunk may be different - they've been working closely with MS), but in time - and not all that far into the future, you'll start to see the pendulum swing the other way.

Now, that gap is not likely to be huge (Think One X/PS4 Pro), but there is a performance delta there, and I have no doubt it'll be evident within a year or so, particularly for any games being built from the ground up on next gen hardware (which we've not seen any of for Xbox just yet).

Hope that puts a few things to bed. I don't expect this to resonate with anyone who wishes to continue the "my box is better than yours" fight, but I thought it was worth sharing.

Do you have a link to that quote if you would be so kind?

 

[OneBadMutha]

Do you have a link to that quote if you would be so kind?

I asked for the OG link at Eurogamer. I may lie back down right now but will try to provide it later today. That copy was second hand.

Edit: here's where it is on Reddit. Believe it was written on the DF AC analysis. I dont visit Eurogamer but they say he's a dev who posts there. Either way, its what I've heard elsewhere.